Abraham, Daniel: An Autumn War

[calico_reaction]

Comments

[charlie_ego]

I'll be really interested to see what you think of the next book, especially reading with women in mind. Let's just say that there are way more women characters in the fourth book than in the previous three (combined, I think), who span the whole gamut from awful to awesome. So although there ARE characters in that book who display all sorts of terrible cliched female behaviors, there are those that so don't... much like real life.

(I suspect his treatment of this has something to do with the overthrow of the old traditional system, which of course was patriarchically based.)

My big problem with this book is that I don't think I do well with the andats' godlike powers -- I think the more powerful they are, and the more they do these big sweeping changes that change the universe, the more I have a "isn't that a deus ex machina kind of thing?" reaction. I know Abraham really tried to set it up (limiting the andats to one particular power and so forth), so I rather think it's my idiosyncratic reaction rather than his fault as a writer.

[calico_reaction]

Hmmm...I can see what you mean. However, it is set up that the andat are set up with a limited function in mind, and will perform those functions only at the poet's behest. So if the poet drives the andat, then the results are man-made, right? It's hard for me to see it as a literal deus-ex-machina because to me, I read that as a problem-solver coming out of NOWHERE with no internal support from the plot. Battlestar Galactica had such an ending, despite the show's series-long examination of religion, and let's see...what other endings can I think of that are deus-ex-machina. . . ?

I guess I'm having trouble with your interpretation because I'm not sure which instance you're talking about. If you could be more specific, that'll help me see your side. :)

And if you've seen BSG, that'd help me compare specifics. :)

One thing to remember is that andats are thoughts forced into form, and if thoughts and ideas have power, and that power is forced into something man-made, they're not so god-like, you know?

[charlie_ego]

No, no, I agree with you. It's definitely not a literal deus ex machina, for exactly the reasons you describe. (I stopped watching BSG pretty early on, but I know what you mean.) It's more that... I don't know... even though Abraham is careful to circumscribe the andats' powers, I still feel like they're too powerful for me to be very happy with them driving the plot; I feel almost like the situation gets more tangled and more complicated until it looks like there's no way of fixing it, and then instead of there being some clever solution by Otah or something, suddenly *poof* the andat is able, at one stroke, to resolve the whole thing, for the entire world

[calico_reaction]

One good thing about the use of the andat here, at least, toward the end, is that Maati failed, and two nations had to pay the price. And I think the things that make you uncomfortable about the andat are the very things that the Galts feared. They were too powerful, and it'd be too easy to use them to wipe any nation off the face of the planet. That's what motivated Balasar, and the fact that we had one successful binding (Freedom-From-Bondage or whatever it was called), worked beyond a whole creepy-godlike-power thing because it was man's motivation behind it, literally.

The fantasy I have trouble with is where the hero keeps discovering all these magical powers he never knew he had, and there never seems to be any rules for the magic (I'm looking at you, Eragon).

[starmetal_oak]

I'm really interested in this series from the things you say about it but I'm hesitant from what you say about the women in the books. Having a questionable view of most of the women in a book I'm reading tends to be a real factor in whether I like it or not. I'm still not convinced. Do you have any other insight on it? Is it worth it for me to read this if I'm the type to really pick these issues out as well?

[calico_reaction]

Give me until the final book so I can make a verdict. Right now, all the female characters are compellingly drawn, and all are products of what is a clearly patriarchal society. At this point, that society seems to be in transition, which means the role of women is in transition too. I'll let you know when I finish the series. :)

[charlie_ego]

As someone who has read all four, I think so. It's true that there aren't so many major female characters in the first couple of books, and (some of) those that are there have issues (not all, though!) but I think this is a function of the kind of society he is trying to write. Anyway, as the series goes on, as calico_reaction says the role of women is in transition.

[calico_reaction]

Thanks for answering that! I look forward to diving into this issue when I read the fourth book, which is next in the pile. :)

[brenbell]

When I first got the series I thought it was going to be a keeper but now I think I'll be donating it to the library. I like the series as a whole but it was hard for me to get through. Part of it was the poses and part of it was it is so descriptive at times that I just want to say "Move along". I have definitely recommended it since I think it is worth reading. And I can see your point about the women. I had wished there was a stronger female character or at least one I could like (maybe Kiyan). I had heard so much about this series that I think I let the hype made me expect more than I got.

[calico_reaction]

You've read all four books then? Or did you find yourself having to quit?

[brenbell]

I'm working on 'The Price of Spring'. It's just harder to get through than I thought it would be.

[jawastew]

Calico, I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to post my reply on JRT only because it turned out REALLY long and the comment threading there is a little wider and forgiving for our long and descriptive conversations. :)

[calico_reaction]

No prob! I'll take a look!

[ext_235991]

Great review. Very thought provoking...but this series seems to do that. Why it hasn't got more love from the various genre awards is beyond me. I hope its one of those that will build an audience over time