Picspam Reaction: Supernatural 5.16
Includes passing minor spoilers for series 3 Doctor Who. Um. And it's kind of huge. And I kinda went insane with the screencaps in spots. Fair warning.
Spoiler and Theorizing Timeline
-March 30 Unexpected and unwarned promo reference in the middle of someone's reaction post for 5.15. Aaaarg. Sigh. Dean gets shot in the face and goes to Heaven, Possibly meeting Mary again (hoping they'll go with a 'John's busy somewhere else in Heaven' rather than 'John's not here' which would kind of suck. Unless John really is God, which... I'm over thinking this *swats thoughts away*). SO, 99% probability of an appearance by Zachariah and some more aggressive coersion. Dean being dead won't stick of course, but it won't keep Sam from flipping out. Possibly on Castiel. Castiel will likely know it's a temporary thing, but not a good thing, since it puts Dean under Zachariah's control. Lots of possibilities for Mytharc-related hootenannies. Oh, and Lucifer showing up and going "they killed your brother, wanna spank 'em?" while Sam's off balance. Hm... also 30% chance of someone trying the Crossroads again, since it's been a while since we've seen Crowley (who has apparently been keeping himself busy [redacted] on another show). If I was Sam and Castiel, I'd be knocking at Chuck's door too, to see if he's getting visions of Dean in the afterlife this time around (which might provide some cues as to where his visions come from.)
Also, very high possibility of other dead characters showing up... I really wish they'd bring in Pastor Jim or Caleb, but probably a more recent one or two, Ellen, Jo, Pamela Barnes, Andy would be awesome. Ash in heaven would be so. Much. Crack. I kind of hope his death was fake though, since it was off-camera.
Chances we'll find out about cosmogony in the Supernatural 'verse, or how angels are made, pretty high chance of some info there I think (or at least finding out what the usurping angels want Dean to know, expecting Zachariah to be all over this episode whether he actually shows up or not) and more than likely some progress or complication on the 'finding God' front. So, anticipating this ep will generate a bit of sturm und drang in several quarters.
Of course this episode is airing on April Fools day, and I did mention earlier that if the Trickster/Gabriel isn't in some way involved in the episode airing today it would be a horribly missed opportunity, soooo... I could see it all turning out to be Gabriel trying some kind of object lesson and it all being a Trickster-AU thing in the end. He does have the most experience in killing Dean after all! ;-)
Anyway, with half a migraine in a howling windstorm that I hope doesn't kill the power, here we go!
Picspam Reaction with tufts of meta and wandering herds of speculation for Supernatural 5.16 - "Dark Side of the Moon"
Wow. O.O Among loads of other things? So many preseries fic prompts! \o/
-OMG the 'THEN' with all the multiple deaths! "How many times have you two died anyway?" Heee! Someone did a fanvid like this once, I think. [And the special effects crew is even more insane than I realized, because I'm seeing some extra blood sprays and heads flying off that I didn't notice in some of the Mystery Spot clips. Heee!]
-Amulet! \o/ Yep. Developments on the God front inbound. Hey, that shot is flopped! Inverted right to left. Must cap later. [See? In the original, Dean's on the other side. They did it to get the amulets from the past and present to line up and give the THEN montage a more contiguous visual stream. *nods like she knows what she's talking about*]
-Oh crap. Um, Sam? Dean? If two random armed dickheads can bust into your hotel and get the drop on you, your security measures are slipping. Although most anti-incursion stuff would be focussed on keeping out demons and unauthorized angels and whatever thing they're hunting, so maybe bog-standard humans might be a blind spot. *handwaves* [Also could have something to do with the metric ton of beer cans (which I didn't notice at first) lying around and that the boys appear to have passed out fully clothed. Sloppy boys. Very sloppy. *shakes head*]
-Roy and Walt... [*snerk* wonder if their last name is 'Disney'?] OMG IT'S THE HUNT SAM CLUB!!! Which hasn't gotten so organized as to form a club yet but IT'S ABOUT TIME THEY SHOWED UP!!! They've been on the Wall since forever! Woo! \o/
-"It is just me or do you two seem a tad upset?" Dean and his pathological need to sass entities that want to kill him, tear out his soul, or otherwise hinder his structural integrity. Of course I love it.
-Seriously. How can anyone point a gun at Sam when he looks at them like this?
I bet these gun-toting jerks kick actual puppies too. Big meanies.
-Oh man. Sam got shot too. Darn, I was hoping for some frantic and prickly 'rescue Dean from Heaven' teamwork between Sam and Castiel. Ah well, someone might fic it.
-"Wanna spend the rest of your life knowing Dean Winchester's on your ass?" Damn straight. The only way to stop Dean now is to kill him. And that won't stop him long unless you salt and burn him. Don't think they're going to get the chance to though. Just a hunch.
-"When I come back, I'm gonna be pissed." Yes. What he said. Accent and all. Considering he and Sam have already had some training in being ghosts, I suspect that Dean's expecting to get started on the 'vengeful spirit' gig immediately with these two bozos. Another alternate scenario for the ep. Or maybe missing scene? Sam and Dean spectrally kick the crap out of these two before heading off to Heaven? Hm.
-"Dark Side of the Moon." Ooo, Pink Floyd reference. Expect much trippiness.
-Hm. No Reaper? Maybe Reapers only talk to people who are teetering on the edge of death and just harvest the rest without chatting. Or someone has worked a fast-lane bypass for Sam and Dean to get them into his sphere of influence without having to track them down on the physical plane when they have anti-angelic-scrying wards on their ribcages. Not mentioning any names, *koffZachariahkoff*. Yeah. *nods*
-'Knocking on Heaven's Door.' *facepalm* Cute. Very cute.
-OF COURSE THE IMPALA'S IN HEAVEN!!! \o/
-OMG, IT'S WEE!SAM!!!! GROWN-UP DEAN AND WEE!SAM!!!!!! \o/ Jensen and Colin in a scene together!!! *flaaaaaaail*
-Dean's lighter!! Haven't seen that in a long time! Sam's yes, Dean's no. When did that last show up? I believe he tossed one in Hell House to set the place on fire, but he also tossed one in Asylum, on Dr. Ellicot. Anyway, Yay lighter!!! \o/
-Ohhhh.... Bottlerockets in a field and it's... it's... Wow. No words. Must screencap.
*flails rather a lot*
-July 4 1996. Sam is 13, Dean is 17. Canon teen!chester hijinx ftw! \o/
-"Dad would never let us do anything like this." Probably. Not enough damage and too much light and noise. Not practical. Unless you were up against evil spirits of Oriental origin, in which case you just scared the crap out of them. *nods*
-AND THERE'S HUGGING!! *flails again some more*
-More fireworks, oooooo boy! *bounces*
*is smiling all over*
-Oh. And now the memory of getting shot and the realization that this isn't a dream starts in. Oh Dean.
-CRAP, I was so entranced by the fireworks and the teen-chester fic being acted out on the screen that I didn't block the guest stars. Pamela, Zachariah and... oh holy crap. ASH!!! \o/ Hee! *blocks the rest*
-Castiel is in the car!!!! \o/ Sam and Castiel have both been in the car and that really sounds dirty but you know what I mean. Them and Constance Welch. *nods*
-"I'm dead."/"Condolences" Hee! Work those nascent social skills, Castiel!
-Heaven. Yep. Spoiler said so. *nods* Dean's very freaked out by that bit of info, which is understandable, considering.
-"For you, it's a road." Of course it's a road for Dean! It's always a road for Dean! \o/ Damn I love this show.
-Oooo. Funky sky and moon. Oooo.
-Starlite filter being used I think; the light sources have horizontal flares, kind of neat.
-What the-? Random family and Sam? Were they in foster care at some point?? o.O
-Oh yay, Dean's here. This was getting bizarre.
-...and the memory goes on without Sam... that's, um... quite disturbing actually. Not sure exactly why. [Still not sure. It's not that he's not there having the memory, because he is, it's just.... something. Hm. *needs more brain*]
-Written by Dabb and Loflin. For comic-book guys, they've been kicking scriptwriting ass. Directed by somebody Woolnough? New person. [He's apparently directed lots of everything, but this is his first time doing Supernatural.]
-Sam questioning himself being in Heaven. And Dean's reaction to Sam questioning that. Ow.
-"You thought you were doing the right thing."/"Last I checked, it wasn't the road to Heaven that was paved with good intentions." Aw. Sammy.
-Skymall! I'd like to think that's a Jonathan Coulton shoutout.
-They burned down the field. Heee! Why am I not surprised? XD
-Eleven years old, making it November 1994.
-First 'real' Thanksgiving. Hunh. On the surface I guess. Nothing wrong with a bucket of extra crispy (beats trying to get into an open diner serving turkey dinners, all of which would be packed with people), and doesn't everybody pass out on the couch after a feast? There has to be something more than just food and an elementary school crush to that memory for Sam.
-CRAP! Archangel inbound!
-I am far, far, faaaaaar too amused that Dean is hiding from an archangel by ducking behind a couch. XD It works, but seriously. Dean Winchester, hiding behind the sofa. Hee!
-Hi Castiel! Why do I suddenly half-expect you to babble about causality and phone boxes and warn the boys not to blink? Although 'Don't go into the light' is cool too.
-Of course Zachariah's looking for them. Ah hah. They can't be envesseled unless they're in their bodies and alive to say yes. Thanks for clearing that up. Body swapping boy would not have helped the demons, but the lowbie demon that was trying to work the deal wouldn't have known it wouldn't work until it didn't. And then Lucifer would have reduced her to paste.*nods*
-Joshua. Talks to God. Good to know. *leaves studies of theological and linguistic nature up to those so inclined* O.O
-Oh. Castiel says "I can't return to Heaven." Dean's face, you guys. Dean's face.
-"You think maybe, just maybe, we should find out what the hell God has been saying??" Aw, Castiel.
-AXIS MUNDI! OH YES!! It's a cross-cultural concept, Navel of the World, a place where the realms meet and can be crossed between. Take a look. Yggdrasil, Olympus, the Bodhi tree, the maypole, all traditional expressions of the concept of the axis mundi. YES! Whoever tossed that concept into the script-pit gets a cookie! \o/
-Last hope of a desperate man. Oh Dean.
-Ha! Slot cars. *snerk* Really love that they didn't stick with a literal drive-down-it road. Even though the Impala's disappeared. [Although since Zacharia can hijack and use memory-constructs, this means there may be angels joyriding in Dean's memory-Impala. Which sounds like a euphemism of some kind. o.O]
-HEEEEE! T-shirt. Oh. Oh. Pre-YED. Oh...
[I kind of hope someone with more knowledge of child psychology and art does an analysis of the picture hanging behind Dean, which Wee!Dean must have drawn (and his folks framed, aw) because there's something weird going on in there... o.O]
-HI MARY!!! \o/ Young!Mary is awesome and all, but t's great to see Mary!Mary again. With the same vocal pitch from the Pilot and... :-D *beams with glee*
[OMG Marionette! Wee!Dean had a marionette! And a football helmet and a fireman's helmet (touchback to the Season 1 finale FTW!) and a bear in a white coat, yeah, but marionette! Properly hanging and untangled and not all jumbled up and unusable! \o/ Actually his whole room's rather tidy for a four-year-old. The marionette fills me with glee though. I had one when I was that age.]
-Oh boys.
-"Do you want the crusts cut off?" Awwwwwwwww *flails*
-"Sam, please. One minute." Awwwww again some more. *wibble*
-Oh god this man will kill me. He's so good at just- gaaaah! Just being wee and the sad wistful and the having his mom take care of him and gaaaaah! Particularly this headrub.
Gaaah...
-Two boys, says Mary, making this sometime after Sam was born... maybe summer '83, judging from the dress?
-"It wasn't perfect until after she died." Oh, OW show!
-Oh. Oh, oh, oh. "It's okay, Mom" and the parallel to what John said at the end of 2.01 about what Dean would say to him, and "Dad still loves you" and "I love you too" and "I'll never leave you" and Sam watching and "You're my little angel" and "How 'bout some pie?" and OHHHHHHHHHHHHH *FLAILS*
[OH AND THANK YOU SO MUCH SOUND PEOPLE FOR PUTTING DEAN'S FAMILY THEME OVER THAT BIT, WHICH I DIDN'T HEAR UNTIL THE CAPPING WATCH-THROUGH! Dammit! I'm low on frigging Kleenex here, cut me some slack! Gaaaaah. This show will kill me, I swear.]
-Also, so far Dean's memories all involve significant familial hugging. Just sayin'. [In other words, I think perhaps anteka may have a point with this vid. (No spoilers there.) ;-)]
-Hee! Postcard! Might that be a spn_postcards shoutout? I think it might be. XD
-Also, this means the axis mundi is a road for both of them, because this is a route to Sam's memory. They share an axis mundi. Aw.
-Bones the Dog! Hey, is that dog the same one from Mystery Spot?
-Flagstaff Arizona, Sam on his own. And there is a definite schism in the viewpoints of this being a good memory. Neither of Sam's memories so far involve his family, that's weird.
-"I looked everywhere for you. I thought you were dead." Oh wow. Yeah. Not happy for Dean. Gaaaaah. Ow. And I'm pretty damn sure Dean beat himself up verbally and emotionally more than anything John said or did. And Sam called the dog Bones because he was a dog he found that was all skin and bones and- Gah! Teen!chester bunnies are attacking from all sides, gaaaaah! Shoo! Shoo! *waves hands*
-Stanford night. Ow. Yeah, I can see why Sam didn't want to say why he recognized it. [Sam, recognizing the memory. And knowing it's not one that's happy for Dean.
And then lying very badly about it.
]
-Oh Dean.
-"Your heaven is somebody else's Thanksgiving, it's bailing on your family, what do you want me to say?" *goes ow rather a lot, especially at the note of rough tension in Dean's voice*
-"I never got the crusts cut off my PB&J" I suspect because when Dean was making the PB&J, food was probably scarce and wasting the bread wasn't practical. He did give Sam the last of the Lucky Charms, though, and wasted an entire can of Spaghettios. Hm. *ponders*
-"I just don't look at family the way you do."/"Yeah, but I'm your family." *rolls up into a ball and goes 'owowow' a lot more*
-Okay... so... hm. Okay. So the memories are instances of when they had things they couldn't usually have in life? Dean, joy and family and being taken care of, and Sam independence? Hm. Needs much more brain. And the reading of many missing scene interpretations. But of course for Dean, this is all coming across as a huge slap in the face, because he's given his entire life to and for his family, and then seeing this dichotomy of perspective from Sam... there's no way he can't take it personally. And Sam knows it's hurting Dean, but can't control which memories are being reconstructed, and OW. Needs more brain. *wraps everyone in warm blankets*
-[Random: Hm. There's a meme topic for future consideration. "What memory do you think you'd re-experience in Supernatural's version of Heaven?"]
-ZACHARIAH HAS A SPOTLIGHT! HAHAHAH! A really tightly constrained spotlight, which somehow does not surprise me in the least. *snerk* Bwah!
-Running from an Archangel while in Heaven. Hm. Doesn't seem like it would be terribly effective. Especially since YOU'RE LEAVING THE ROAD, GUYS! If you're gonna run, run down the frigging road. *facepalm*
-...And I can't believe I just agreed with Zachariah. *facepalm again*
-"By the time I'm through with you you're going to be begging to say yes." Wait. Both say yes? Ah. Of course Zachariah wants Sam to say yes too. It completes the matched set of Apocalypse Salt and Pepper shakers. *nods*
-Hahahahaha! Wrestling mask and a cape, it must be ASH!!! See, what did I say in the spoiler timeline? Crack. *nods*
-"Buenos Dias, bitches!" *snorts and chokes on water*
-OMG ROADHOUSE!!!! \o/ Dude, when they killed the Roadhouse at the end of season 2, AFAIK, they dismantled the set. That means they rebuilt the damn thing for this! \o/ *scrutinizes layout and nods*
-MONKEY STATUE!!! \o/ On the bar! Yay! \o/
-Oh wow. Oh cool. Ash is running the Roadhouse in Heaven. Like Callahan's Place. I... I think now maybe instead of an endless plain and a hill we may actually get a posse at the bar. The Roadhouse is still a huge target, though, especially if it becomes known as a focal point of any kind of resistance, but maybe Ash has more tricks than he did in life. Hm. *puts Ash and the Heavenly Roadhouse on the Wall*
-Aw. And Ash gets what he most rarely got in life. His own beer. *pats*
-Individual Heavens. Well, duh. *shrugs* Centered around the Garden. *nods*
-Soulmates. Hunh. [Okay, I cannot believe I didn't get the import of that the first time around. OF COURSE SAM AND DEAN ARE SOULMATES!!!! \o/ And Castiel said to follow the road to find Sam and that is either simply awesome or needs a hell of a lot more brain than I have access to at the moment. *ponders*]
-Heaven Band Scanner. Hahahahah! I knew it! Ash is totally a technomage. What did he call it? 'Holy Wrong Place Scanner'? [Still can't tell. Lip-reading fail.]
-Ash is fluent in Enochian. Wow. Good to know, and makes him an even likelier candidate for the Wall and potential recurrence as things wind down to the finale. I detect plot potential. *nods*
-"You boys die more than anyone I have ever met." Ooo. Resurrected by the different factions and mindwiped. Ooo. So. How many times have they died and been made to forget about it? And does this make death-fic canon? *ponders*
-Aw Ash. Ellen and Jo. Aw. The little 'gathering himself' thing he does, then asking if they went down fighting. Awwwww.
-Hasn't found John yet. Not to say he isn't there. Probably hasn't looked for Mary because he isn't aware of her as being a hunter. Maybe. *nods*
-Hi Pam, saw you in the credits, no surprise. She must have been a Roadhouse patron before it blew up. *nods*
-Wait what? "It's awesome to finally have a practical application for string theory." Practical applications for string theory?! MATH!!! \o/ *glee* It's sad, but I like Ash a lot more now that he's dead.
-"If it makes you feel better we got Ash killed too."/"I'm cool with it." Yeah, I like him a whole lot more. XD
-"That's not Nirvana, that's the Matrix!" *glee*
-Hunh... Considering Pamela's stance on angels in life.... this sideways pitch coming from her for Dean to say yes is highly suspect. Is she her, or is she... hm. *side-eyes*
-"And then they come here. Is that really so bad?" ...I dunno about that. I can't think of a single happy memory that wouldn't start to lose it's shine or get kind of unsettling after the thousandth iteration. Also, nothing new, ever. *shudders* Ash has it figured out though, with the jumping between heavens, and bringing people into his. It allows for new things to happen. *nods*
-OMG is that the square root of infinity?! Ash is using MATH (admittedly math that's utter absolute crack) to open portals! I- I- EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! *flails* I definitely like Ash a lot more now! Oh, I hope he rounds up all the dead Winchester allies in Heaven into the Roadhouse and helps take down Zachariah from above or something! \o/
-Uh oh. Even though there's a lot of flowers on that couch and chair, that's definitely not a garden. Badness inbound.
-"The night I burned." Oh crap. Ohhhhh crap.
-"I never loved you, you were my burden, look what it got me." Oh craaaaaaaaaaaap!! DON'T BELIEVE HER, DEAN! It's gotta be Zachariah!
-Everything went green and locked down. That's interesting. [Green is very Matrixy too, hee!] Excellent implementation of lighting. The spotlight behind the furniture. *nods*
-Oh man. Samantha Smith does good evil. Oh poor Dean.
-"Everybody leaves you." This is nasty cruel. It has to be Zachariah doing this. Mary is like a backdoor into Dean's psyche, and to have her tearing him down like this... it has to be Zachariah. This can't actually be Mary. O.O
-Yep. ZACHARIAH, YOU BASTARD!!! *shakes fist*
-"Or at least the blessed memory of her." Okay. So. Zachariah snagged this memory of Mary from Dean's Heaven/memory construct and got her to say things she otherwise wouldn't have. So, Zachariah can alter the memories, which makes sense... ooo. Brain later.
-Is he- O.O EW! EWWWWWWWWW! DO NOT WANT! Zachariah is a majorly skeevy angel. Literally screwing with Dean's memories of his mom. Ewwwwwww. :-b
-So, Zachariah's hijacked the memory of Mary to do this to Dean, he said so. Sooooo... Pamela and her endless concert? Wanna bet she's a highjacked memory too? And a spy in Ash's Roadhouse? Oh crap! [Oooo... and if Zachariah hijacked the Mary bit of memory/Heaven from Dean, and influenced Pam... what if he directed Sam's memories? Re-prioritized Sam's Heaven experience so it would be all non-family, non-Dean, memories of independence? Zachariah wants Sam to say yes too, and wants to break down Dean's resistance to Michael. It's all about breaking resolves. Sam only gets happy memories linked to rebellion, Dean sees Sam's happy memories as being anything but part of the Winchester family, where Dean's own are all tied so integrally with family, and it crushes him. Disheartening, resolve-breaking, all there in spades. The boys are being played again to push them apart. And because this is hitting them both (particularly Dean) on a baseline level, they're too off-balance to see it. Yeah. Zachariah is frigging nasty. *nods* SO, I say Sam has loads and loads of happy wee!chester family memories he'd normally be getting in amongst the other things, but Zachariah's sitting on them in order to cause a rift between Sam and Dean. \o/ *nods* Either that or an added bonus of the demon blood YED fed him has been to tilt him towards rebellion and independence...? Part of a very old, ongoing, ever-adapting theory.]
-"In Heaven I have six wings and four faces, one of which is a lion" Heeeeee! Love the hand gesture for 'lion'.
-Ooo. Zachariah has issues.
-"They" assigned Zachariah to the Winchesters. Who's "they"? I feel like being assigned the Winchesters was a test of some sort for Zachariah, but not the one he thinks it is. And I think he's failing his test horribly, but not for the reasons he thinks he is. Hm. *ponders more*
-"Lucifer may be strong, but I'm petty." HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! Perfect character summary! XD
-Hi Joshua!
-"I'm in a meeting!" Hahaha! You know, Zachariah is skeevy as all hell, and I want to eviscerate him for what he's doing, but he's becoming a character I'm starting to enjoy hating.
-Ooo! Boss says so! Ooo! Yay, literal Deus ex Machina! \o/
-Ooo, domed garden! That's not Sun Yat Sen, they don't have a dome. Vandusen Gardens? Hm... dome... Butchart Gardens has a domed garden, don't they?? Ooo. Have to Google later. [It's the Bloedel Floral Conservatory. Darn! I was hoping for it to have been Butchart Gardens! That would have meant they were all on the Island where I am, but the logistics of moving production to the island for one scene would have been ridiculous. Anyway, in trying to track down the location I did run across this, which is a breakdown of fees and scheduling of what it costs to film in one partcular park in Vancouver. I think it's interesting, but I'm weird like that. ^.^]
-God's on Earth. Ooooo... As much fun as it would be if God was Bobby, I doubt that's likely. But it would be fun. Doubt it's a re-embodied John either. Hm.
-Gardener to gardener. Hehehe. Planting seeds, letting them grow and trying to keep the weeds from choking it all to death. Heheh.
-"Back off. He knows already." Not it's his plan to start the apocalypse, just he knows. God's testing. What angels do with free will and no supervision, maybe, I don't know. He knows what's happening, and could stop it, but isn't. ...you know, I never thought I'd be analysing God's motivation and tactics. This is weird. Needs more brain. And time. *nods* [And Dean's reaction needs screencapped, cause ow.]
-"Not his problem." Not that he doesn't care. That it's not his problem to solve. Important distinction. Yep. Here is the exercise for the class. You have free will. What do you do with it? Keep things on an even keel, destroy each other, start the Apocalypse, what? The experiment is still running, and the garden is still growing. I think, anyway. Hm. *ponders*
-Also, hello, confirmation God's still kicking around, although it's about the same effect as John phoning at the start of Scarecrow. Sort of.
-"God saved you already." YES! CONFIRMATION! God rescued the Winchesters from Lucifer rising and brought Castiel back! \o/ That's pretty freaking huge! And obviously done for a reason. God does not play dice with this particular universe. He plays ten-dimensional chess. He's not a mean GM. The PCs get in over their heads and they get a GM Fiat card played. Oooo. Nifty.
-*Spends rest of the conversation with Joshua rather mindblown, will brain much later* [Much much later.]
-Sweeeeet. My head hurts now.
-"Just another deadbeat dad with a bunch of excuses." OW. John's rep is taking a real pounding in these latter seasons, eh? Damn.
-[The thing is, though, that's what parents are supposed to do, isn't it? (Not the deadbeat bit, which John and God aren't, but the not fighting all your battles for you bit.) Parents are not magical creatures who solve all your problems forever and ever. You have to solve your own problems. Parents are theoretically supposed to give you the tools to deal with problems yourself, and let you solve them instead of fixing everything for you. Let you know you might think things are overwhelming and impossible, but that you really can handle it on your own. (Even if it means occasionally giving a behind-the-scenes assist, like depositing some emergency cash in a bank account, or pulling your butts out of Lucifer's blast radius, or raising you from "splattered by an archangel") I'm not a parent at all and never will be, but that seems like the general over-arching idea. Various individual vastly different real world experiences notwithstanding of course :-/. And of course since God's playing broken telephone here and relaying messages through Joshua, there's communications issues. Like in most families.]
-"You can't kill the Devil, and you're losing faith." Ooo. So was he just voicing Dean's inner doubt there, or was he saying that the Devil can't be killed? Ooo. And Dean's never had much religious faith, but this experience is shaking his faith in family and Sam, and that's key to everything. [That 'can't kill the devil' bit. If that's literal, which makes sense to me because of the whole preservation of balance thing, that means God's telling them there is another way to go than Lucifer kills Michael or Michael kills Lucifer. There's a third option, which I'm almost certain will involve epic hugging. See vid above. *nods*]
-"I just trim the hedges." Yeaaaah. In the Garden at the center of Heaven. And the Garden is a metaphorical construct for something. This guy could be like Heaven's Tech Support. And he's the only one God's talking to. So if this is a test of anyone, angelic or non, that makes this guy God's.... exam proctor? Gah! Needs more brain. O.O
-Eeek. I hope the Winchesters repop fast. It'd be rather awkward to come back while the other hunters are trying to do a salt and burn. Also ouchy. o.O
-Beer. Wow. Were those all there before, or did Ash come down and hang out protecting their corpses until they returned? o.O [Nope. All that was there at the start. I is unobservant this week.]
-Wow, those were very stupid hunters. I mean, hauling the corpses out of the hotel would be tricky, but no hint of an attempt to keep these two from haunting them? Unless they lit out in a panic, after the gunshots and all. Or someone made them go away and stood guard over the corpses. Or Sam and Dean went all vengeful spirit on them before getting sucked up to Heaven. They'll be found by the housekeeping staff, in very small chunks, wedged into the toilet tank. Or something. *nods*
-Hee! Sam ressurects with a silly face.
-"Maybe Joshua was lying." Aw. Awww. Castiel. Awwww. Please tell me Sam or Dean remembered to tell him that it's confirmed that God brought him back? Doesn't look like it. Aw. Crap. Aw.
-Seriously though, test of faith much? God brought him back for some reason. Castiel's faith is why he rebelled from Heaven and the usurping powers currently running the place. His faith is being tested here. I'm not sure, but I think it might be being tested for a reason other than the Apocalypse. Must ponder. Castiel's going to have some issues for a while though, I suspect.
-Amulet! "I don't need this anymore." Oh. "It's worthless." Oh oh oh. Ow.
-Uh oh. Sam's getting determined. Bad things happen when Sam gets determined.
-Aw Dean, no! Aw. Sometimes I want to smack Dean. Or shake him or something. Wake him up and make him see things objectively. But Dean's very subjective. Especially when he's had the crap kicked out of him on so many levels. Dammit, Dean.
-Everyone knows Sam totally fished the amulet out of the trash, right? It's a fact, whether it was on-screen or not. Because aside from the vitally important need for it to be re-presented to Dean by Sam at an appropriate juncture, it's still a God EMF. Sam knows God's on Earth, and Sam's all determined to fix things and probably going to try to do something silly like track down God himself and get all up in his face, which Lucifer will just love. Also since Sam's support network just flutter-bye'd/walked out the door, he might also do something silly like head to Chicago Detroit Chicago ...wherever the heck it is and say Yes to Lucifer because he figures he can resist from within, and so on and so forth. So all Hell is gonna break loose again some more. Sooner rather than later. And that amulet is not staying in that trash can. Because Dean needs to have it. Screw the apocalypse.
Anyway. As far as breaking the boys' will to resist, and breaking down support networks, and having everyone fissioned off into their own little worlds of pain and hurt (rather like individual anti-Heavens) and not pulling together to poke holes in this whole 'fate' thing Lucifer and Zachariah are trying to stuff down the boys throats? That was a damned effective maneuver. Also *points at Castiel* disheartening the member of the Winchester resistance support team who isn't Bobby. Yep, that's been accomplished quite thoroughly at the moment.
I'm starting to wonder if Zachariah and Lucifer aren't knowingly working together, because they seem to be forwarding each other's goals with tremendous efficiency... *ponders*
Anyway. Belly of the whale. Darkest before the dawn. Nowhere to go but up. All that stuff. Bring it on, Kripke. You're still a bastard, but I still have Zen, dammit.
(PLEASE, NO SPOILERS OR REFERENCES TO SPOILERY MATERIAL IN COMMENTS! The definition of spoiler for this journal is located in left hand sidebar and includes references to promo material as spoilers. Theory and speculation based on aired episodes only.)
Spoiler and Theorizing Timeline
-March 30 Unexpected and unwarned promo reference in the middle of someone's reaction post for 5.15. Aaaarg. Sigh. Dean gets shot in the face and goes to Heaven, Possibly meeting Mary again (hoping they'll go with a 'John's busy somewhere else in Heaven' rather than 'John's not here' which would kind of suck. Unless John really is God, which... I'm over thinking this *swats thoughts away*). SO, 99% probability of an appearance by Zachariah and some more aggressive coersion. Dean being dead won't stick of course, but it won't keep Sam from flipping out. Possibly on Castiel. Castiel will likely know it's a temporary thing, but not a good thing, since it puts Dean under Zachariah's control. Lots of possibilities for Mytharc-related hootenannies. Oh, and Lucifer showing up and going "they killed your brother, wanna spank 'em?" while Sam's off balance. Hm... also 30% chance of someone trying the Crossroads again, since it's been a while since we've seen Crowley (who has apparently been keeping himself busy [redacted] on another show). If I was Sam and Castiel, I'd be knocking at Chuck's door too, to see if he's getting visions of Dean in the afterlife this time around (which might provide some cues as to where his visions come from.)
Also, very high possibility of other dead characters showing up... I really wish they'd bring in Pastor Jim or Caleb, but probably a more recent one or two, Ellen, Jo, Pamela Barnes, Andy would be awesome. Ash in heaven would be so. Much. Crack. I kind of hope his death was fake though, since it was off-camera.
Chances we'll find out about cosmogony in the Supernatural 'verse, or how angels are made, pretty high chance of some info there I think (or at least finding out what the usurping angels want Dean to know, expecting Zachariah to be all over this episode whether he actually shows up or not) and more than likely some progress or complication on the 'finding God' front. So, anticipating this ep will generate a bit of sturm und drang in several quarters.
Of course this episode is airing on April Fools day, and I did mention earlier that if the Trickster/Gabriel isn't in some way involved in the episode airing today it would be a horribly missed opportunity, soooo... I could see it all turning out to be Gabriel trying some kind of object lesson and it all being a Trickster-AU thing in the end. He does have the most experience in killing Dean after all! ;-)
Anyway, with half a migraine in a howling windstorm that I hope doesn't kill the power, here we go!
Picspam Reaction with tufts of meta and wandering herds of speculation for Supernatural 5.16 - "Dark Side of the Moon"
Wow. O.O Among loads of other things? So many preseries fic prompts! \o/
-OMG the 'THEN' with all the multiple deaths! "How many times have you two died anyway?" Heee! Someone did a fanvid like this once, I think. [And the special effects crew is even more insane than I realized, because I'm seeing some extra blood sprays and heads flying off that I didn't notice in some of the Mystery Spot clips. Heee!]
-Amulet! \o/ Yep. Developments on the God front inbound. Hey, that shot is flopped! Inverted right to left. Must cap later. [See? In the original, Dean's on the other side. They did it to get the amulets from the past and present to line up and give the THEN montage a more contiguous visual stream. *nods like she knows what she's talking about*]
-Oh crap. Um, Sam? Dean? If two random armed dickheads can bust into your hotel and get the drop on you, your security measures are slipping. Although most anti-incursion stuff would be focussed on keeping out demons and unauthorized angels and whatever thing they're hunting, so maybe bog-standard humans might be a blind spot. *handwaves* [Also could have something to do with the metric ton of beer cans (which I didn't notice at first) lying around and that the boys appear to have passed out fully clothed. Sloppy boys. Very sloppy. *shakes head*]
-Roy and Walt... [*snerk* wonder if their last name is 'Disney'?] OMG IT'S THE HUNT SAM CLUB!!! Which hasn't gotten so organized as to form a club yet but IT'S ABOUT TIME THEY SHOWED UP!!! They've been on the Wall since forever! Woo! \o/
-"It is just me or do you two seem a tad upset?" Dean and his pathological need to sass entities that want to kill him, tear out his soul, or otherwise hinder his structural integrity. Of course I love it.
-Seriously. How can anyone point a gun at Sam when he looks at them like this?
I bet these gun-toting jerks kick actual puppies too. Big meanies.
-Oh man. Sam got shot too. Darn, I was hoping for some frantic and prickly 'rescue Dean from Heaven' teamwork between Sam and Castiel. Ah well, someone might fic it.
-"Wanna spend the rest of your life knowing Dean Winchester's on your ass?" Damn straight. The only way to stop Dean now is to kill him. And that won't stop him long unless you salt and burn him. Don't think they're going to get the chance to though. Just a hunch.
-"When I come back, I'm gonna be pissed." Yes. What he said. Accent and all. Considering he and Sam have already had some training in being ghosts, I suspect that Dean's expecting to get started on the 'vengeful spirit' gig immediately with these two bozos. Another alternate scenario for the ep. Or maybe missing scene? Sam and Dean spectrally kick the crap out of these two before heading off to Heaven? Hm.
-"Dark Side of the Moon." Ooo, Pink Floyd reference. Expect much trippiness.
-Hm. No Reaper? Maybe Reapers only talk to people who are teetering on the edge of death and just harvest the rest without chatting. Or someone has worked a fast-lane bypass for Sam and Dean to get them into his sphere of influence without having to track them down on the physical plane when they have anti-angelic-scrying wards on their ribcages. Not mentioning any names, *koffZachariahkoff*. Yeah. *nods*
-'Knocking on Heaven's Door.' *facepalm* Cute. Very cute.
-OF COURSE THE IMPALA'S IN HEAVEN!!! \o/
-OMG, IT'S WEE!SAM!!!! GROWN-UP DEAN AND WEE!SAM!!!!!! \o/ Jensen and Colin in a scene together!!! *flaaaaaaail*
-Dean's lighter!! Haven't seen that in a long time! Sam's yes, Dean's no. When did that last show up? I believe he tossed one in Hell House to set the place on fire, but he also tossed one in Asylum, on Dr. Ellicot. Anyway, Yay lighter!!! \o/
-Ohhhh.... Bottlerockets in a field and it's... it's... Wow. No words. Must screencap.
*flails rather a lot*
-July 4 1996. Sam is 13, Dean is 17. Canon teen!chester hijinx ftw! \o/
-"Dad would never let us do anything like this." Probably. Not enough damage and too much light and noise. Not practical. Unless you were up against evil spirits of Oriental origin, in which case you just scared the crap out of them. *nods*
-AND THERE'S HUGGING!! *flails again some more*
-More fireworks, oooooo boy! *bounces*
*is smiling all over*
-Oh. And now the memory of getting shot and the realization that this isn't a dream starts in. Oh Dean.
-CRAP, I was so entranced by the fireworks and the teen-chester fic being acted out on the screen that I didn't block the guest stars. Pamela, Zachariah and... oh holy crap. ASH!!! \o/ Hee! *blocks the rest*
-Castiel is in the car!!!! \o/ Sam and Castiel have both been in the car and that really sounds dirty but you know what I mean. Them and Constance Welch. *nods*
-"I'm dead."/"Condolences" Hee! Work those nascent social skills, Castiel!
-Heaven. Yep. Spoiler said so. *nods* Dean's very freaked out by that bit of info, which is understandable, considering.
-"For you, it's a road." Of course it's a road for Dean! It's always a road for Dean! \o/ Damn I love this show.
-Oooo. Funky sky and moon. Oooo.
-Starlite filter being used I think; the light sources have horizontal flares, kind of neat.
-What the-? Random family and Sam? Were they in foster care at some point?? o.O
-Oh yay, Dean's here. This was getting bizarre.
-...and the memory goes on without Sam... that's, um... quite disturbing actually. Not sure exactly why. [Still not sure. It's not that he's not there having the memory, because he is, it's just.... something. Hm. *needs more brain*]
-Written by Dabb and Loflin. For comic-book guys, they've been kicking scriptwriting ass. Directed by somebody Woolnough? New person. [He's apparently directed lots of everything, but this is his first time doing Supernatural.]
-Sam questioning himself being in Heaven. And Dean's reaction to Sam questioning that. Ow.
-"You thought you were doing the right thing."/"Last I checked, it wasn't the road to Heaven that was paved with good intentions." Aw. Sammy.
-Skymall! I'd like to think that's a Jonathan Coulton shoutout.
-They burned down the field. Heee! Why am I not surprised? XD
-Eleven years old, making it November 1994.
-First 'real' Thanksgiving. Hunh. On the surface I guess. Nothing wrong with a bucket of extra crispy (beats trying to get into an open diner serving turkey dinners, all of which would be packed with people), and doesn't everybody pass out on the couch after a feast? There has to be something more than just food and an elementary school crush to that memory for Sam.
-CRAP! Archangel inbound!
-I am far, far, faaaaaar too amused that Dean is hiding from an archangel by ducking behind a couch. XD It works, but seriously. Dean Winchester, hiding behind the sofa. Hee!
-Hi Castiel! Why do I suddenly half-expect you to babble about causality and phone boxes and warn the boys not to blink? Although 'Don't go into the light' is cool too.
-Of course Zachariah's looking for them. Ah hah. They can't be envesseled unless they're in their bodies and alive to say yes. Thanks for clearing that up. Body swapping boy would not have helped the demons, but the lowbie demon that was trying to work the deal wouldn't have known it wouldn't work until it didn't. And then Lucifer would have reduced her to paste.*nods*
-Joshua. Talks to God. Good to know. *leaves studies of theological and linguistic nature up to those so inclined* O.O
-Oh. Castiel says "I can't return to Heaven." Dean's face, you guys. Dean's face.
-"You think maybe, just maybe, we should find out what the hell God has been saying??" Aw, Castiel.
-AXIS MUNDI! OH YES!! It's a cross-cultural concept, Navel of the World, a place where the realms meet and can be crossed between. Take a look. Yggdrasil, Olympus, the Bodhi tree, the maypole, all traditional expressions of the concept of the axis mundi. YES! Whoever tossed that concept into the script-pit gets a cookie! \o/
-Last hope of a desperate man. Oh Dean.
-Ha! Slot cars. *snerk* Really love that they didn't stick with a literal drive-down-it road. Even though the Impala's disappeared. [Although since Zacharia can hijack and use memory-constructs, this means there may be angels joyriding in Dean's memory-Impala. Which sounds like a euphemism of some kind. o.O]
-HEEEEE! T-shirt. Oh. Oh. Pre-YED. Oh...
[I kind of hope someone with more knowledge of child psychology and art does an analysis of the picture hanging behind Dean, which Wee!Dean must have drawn (and his folks framed, aw) because there's something weird going on in there... o.O]
-HI MARY!!! \o/ Young!Mary is awesome and all, but t's great to see Mary!Mary again. With the same vocal pitch from the Pilot and... :-D *beams with glee*
[OMG Marionette! Wee!Dean had a marionette! And a football helmet and a fireman's helmet (touchback to the Season 1 finale FTW!) and a bear in a white coat, yeah, but marionette! Properly hanging and untangled and not all jumbled up and unusable! \o/ Actually his whole room's rather tidy for a four-year-old. The marionette fills me with glee though. I had one when I was that age.]
-Oh boys.
-"Do you want the crusts cut off?" Awwwwwwwww *flails*
-"Sam, please. One minute." Awwwww again some more. *wibble*
-Oh god this man will kill me. He's so good at just- gaaaah! Just being wee and the sad wistful and the having his mom take care of him and gaaaaah! Particularly this headrub.
Gaaah...
-Two boys, says Mary, making this sometime after Sam was born... maybe summer '83, judging from the dress?
-"It wasn't perfect until after she died." Oh, OW show!
-Oh. Oh, oh, oh. "It's okay, Mom" and the parallel to what John said at the end of 2.01 about what Dean would say to him, and "Dad still loves you" and "I love you too" and "I'll never leave you" and Sam watching and "You're my little angel" and "How 'bout some pie?" and OHHHHHHHHHHHHH *FLAILS*
[OH AND THANK YOU SO MUCH SOUND PEOPLE FOR PUTTING DEAN'S FAMILY THEME OVER THAT BIT, WHICH I DIDN'T HEAR UNTIL THE CAPPING WATCH-THROUGH! Dammit! I'm low on frigging Kleenex here, cut me some slack! Gaaaaah. This show will kill me, I swear.]
-Also, so far Dean's memories all involve significant familial hugging. Just sayin'. [In other words, I think perhaps anteka may have a point with this vid. (No spoilers there.) ;-)]
-Hee! Postcard! Might that be a spn_postcards shoutout? I think it might be. XD
-Also, this means the axis mundi is a road for both of them, because this is a route to Sam's memory. They share an axis mundi. Aw.
-Bones the Dog! Hey, is that dog the same one from Mystery Spot?
-Flagstaff Arizona, Sam on his own. And there is a definite schism in the viewpoints of this being a good memory. Neither of Sam's memories so far involve his family, that's weird.
-"I looked everywhere for you. I thought you were dead." Oh wow. Yeah. Not happy for Dean. Gaaaaah. Ow. And I'm pretty damn sure Dean beat himself up verbally and emotionally more than anything John said or did. And Sam called the dog Bones because he was a dog he found that was all skin and bones and- Gah! Teen!chester bunnies are attacking from all sides, gaaaaah! Shoo! Shoo! *waves hands*
-Stanford night. Ow. Yeah, I can see why Sam didn't want to say why he recognized it. [Sam, recognizing the memory. And knowing it's not one that's happy for Dean.
And then lying very badly about it.
]
-Oh Dean.
-"Your heaven is somebody else's Thanksgiving, it's bailing on your family, what do you want me to say?" *goes ow rather a lot, especially at the note of rough tension in Dean's voice*
-"I never got the crusts cut off my PB&J" I suspect because when Dean was making the PB&J, food was probably scarce and wasting the bread wasn't practical. He did give Sam the last of the Lucky Charms, though, and wasted an entire can of Spaghettios. Hm. *ponders*
-"I just don't look at family the way you do."/"Yeah, but I'm your family." *rolls up into a ball and goes 'owowow' a lot more*
-Okay... so... hm. Okay. So the memories are instances of when they had things they couldn't usually have in life? Dean, joy and family and being taken care of, and Sam independence? Hm. Needs much more brain. And the reading of many missing scene interpretations. But of course for Dean, this is all coming across as a huge slap in the face, because he's given his entire life to and for his family, and then seeing this dichotomy of perspective from Sam... there's no way he can't take it personally. And Sam knows it's hurting Dean, but can't control which memories are being reconstructed, and OW. Needs more brain. *wraps everyone in warm blankets*
-[Random: Hm. There's a meme topic for future consideration. "What memory do you think you'd re-experience in Supernatural's version of Heaven?"]
-ZACHARIAH HAS A SPOTLIGHT! HAHAHAH! A really tightly constrained spotlight, which somehow does not surprise me in the least. *snerk* Bwah!
-Running from an Archangel while in Heaven. Hm. Doesn't seem like it would be terribly effective. Especially since YOU'RE LEAVING THE ROAD, GUYS! If you're gonna run, run down the frigging road. *facepalm*
-...And I can't believe I just agreed with Zachariah. *facepalm again*
-"By the time I'm through with you you're going to be begging to say yes." Wait. Both say yes? Ah. Of course Zachariah wants Sam to say yes too. It completes the matched set of Apocalypse Salt and Pepper shakers. *nods*
-Hahahahaha! Wrestling mask and a cape, it must be ASH!!! See, what did I say in the spoiler timeline? Crack. *nods*
-"Buenos Dias, bitches!" *snorts and chokes on water*
-OMG ROADHOUSE!!!! \o/ Dude, when they killed the Roadhouse at the end of season 2, AFAIK, they dismantled the set. That means they rebuilt the damn thing for this! \o/ *scrutinizes layout and nods*
-MONKEY STATUE!!! \o/ On the bar! Yay! \o/
-Oh wow. Oh cool. Ash is running the Roadhouse in Heaven. Like Callahan's Place. I... I think now maybe instead of an endless plain and a hill we may actually get a posse at the bar. The Roadhouse is still a huge target, though, especially if it becomes known as a focal point of any kind of resistance, but maybe Ash has more tricks than he did in life. Hm. *puts Ash and the Heavenly Roadhouse on the Wall*
-Aw. And Ash gets what he most rarely got in life. His own beer. *pats*
-Individual Heavens. Well, duh. *shrugs* Centered around the Garden. *nods*
-Soulmates. Hunh. [Okay, I cannot believe I didn't get the import of that the first time around. OF COURSE SAM AND DEAN ARE SOULMATES!!!! \o/ And Castiel said to follow the road to find Sam and that is either simply awesome or needs a hell of a lot more brain than I have access to at the moment. *ponders*]
-Heaven Band Scanner. Hahahahah! I knew it! Ash is totally a technomage. What did he call it? 'Holy Wrong Place Scanner'? [Still can't tell. Lip-reading fail.]
-Ash is fluent in Enochian. Wow. Good to know, and makes him an even likelier candidate for the Wall and potential recurrence as things wind down to the finale. I detect plot potential. *nods*
-"You boys die more than anyone I have ever met." Ooo. Resurrected by the different factions and mindwiped. Ooo. So. How many times have they died and been made to forget about it? And does this make death-fic canon? *ponders*
-Aw Ash. Ellen and Jo. Aw. The little 'gathering himself' thing he does, then asking if they went down fighting. Awwwww.
-Hasn't found John yet. Not to say he isn't there. Probably hasn't looked for Mary because he isn't aware of her as being a hunter. Maybe. *nods*
-Hi Pam, saw you in the credits, no surprise. She must have been a Roadhouse patron before it blew up. *nods*
-Wait what? "It's awesome to finally have a practical application for string theory." Practical applications for string theory?! MATH!!! \o/ *glee* It's sad, but I like Ash a lot more now that he's dead.
-"If it makes you feel better we got Ash killed too."/"I'm cool with it." Yeah, I like him a whole lot more. XD
-"That's not Nirvana, that's the Matrix!" *glee*
-Hunh... Considering Pamela's stance on angels in life.... this sideways pitch coming from her for Dean to say yes is highly suspect. Is she her, or is she... hm. *side-eyes*
-"And then they come here. Is that really so bad?" ...I dunno about that. I can't think of a single happy memory that wouldn't start to lose it's shine or get kind of unsettling after the thousandth iteration. Also, nothing new, ever. *shudders* Ash has it figured out though, with the jumping between heavens, and bringing people into his. It allows for new things to happen. *nods*
-OMG is that the square root of infinity?! Ash is using MATH (admittedly math that's utter absolute crack) to open portals! I- I- EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! *flails* I definitely like Ash a lot more now! Oh, I hope he rounds up all the dead Winchester allies in Heaven into the Roadhouse and helps take down Zachariah from above or something! \o/
-Uh oh. Even though there's a lot of flowers on that couch and chair, that's definitely not a garden. Badness inbound.
-"The night I burned." Oh crap. Ohhhhh crap.
-"I never loved you, you were my burden, look what it got me." Oh craaaaaaaaaaaap!! DON'T BELIEVE HER, DEAN! It's gotta be Zachariah!
-Everything went green and locked down. That's interesting. [Green is very Matrixy too, hee!] Excellent implementation of lighting. The spotlight behind the furniture. *nods*
-Oh man. Samantha Smith does good evil. Oh poor Dean.
-"Everybody leaves you." This is nasty cruel. It has to be Zachariah doing this. Mary is like a backdoor into Dean's psyche, and to have her tearing him down like this... it has to be Zachariah. This can't actually be Mary. O.O
-Yep. ZACHARIAH, YOU BASTARD!!! *shakes fist*
-"Or at least the blessed memory of her." Okay. So. Zachariah snagged this memory of Mary from Dean's Heaven/memory construct and got her to say things she otherwise wouldn't have. So, Zachariah can alter the memories, which makes sense... ooo. Brain later.
-Is he- O.O EW! EWWWWWWWWW! DO NOT WANT! Zachariah is a majorly skeevy angel. Literally screwing with Dean's memories of his mom. Ewwwwwww. :-b
-So, Zachariah's hijacked the memory of Mary to do this to Dean, he said so. Sooooo... Pamela and her endless concert? Wanna bet she's a highjacked memory too? And a spy in Ash's Roadhouse? Oh crap! [Oooo... and if Zachariah hijacked the Mary bit of memory/Heaven from Dean, and influenced Pam... what if he directed Sam's memories? Re-prioritized Sam's Heaven experience so it would be all non-family, non-Dean, memories of independence? Zachariah wants Sam to say yes too, and wants to break down Dean's resistance to Michael. It's all about breaking resolves. Sam only gets happy memories linked to rebellion, Dean sees Sam's happy memories as being anything but part of the Winchester family, where Dean's own are all tied so integrally with family, and it crushes him. Disheartening, resolve-breaking, all there in spades. The boys are being played again to push them apart. And because this is hitting them both (particularly Dean) on a baseline level, they're too off-balance to see it. Yeah. Zachariah is frigging nasty. *nods* SO, I say Sam has loads and loads of happy wee!chester family memories he'd normally be getting in amongst the other things, but Zachariah's sitting on them in order to cause a rift between Sam and Dean. \o/ *nods* Either that or an added bonus of the demon blood YED fed him has been to tilt him towards rebellion and independence...? Part of a very old, ongoing, ever-adapting theory.]
-"In Heaven I have six wings and four faces, one of which is a lion" Heeeeee! Love the hand gesture for 'lion'.
-Ooo. Zachariah has issues.
-"They" assigned Zachariah to the Winchesters. Who's "they"? I feel like being assigned the Winchesters was a test of some sort for Zachariah, but not the one he thinks it is. And I think he's failing his test horribly, but not for the reasons he thinks he is. Hm. *ponders more*
-"Lucifer may be strong, but I'm petty." HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! Perfect character summary! XD
-Hi Joshua!
-"I'm in a meeting!" Hahaha! You know, Zachariah is skeevy as all hell, and I want to eviscerate him for what he's doing, but he's becoming a character I'm starting to enjoy hating.
-Ooo! Boss says so! Ooo! Yay, literal Deus ex Machina! \o/
-Ooo, domed garden! That's not Sun Yat Sen, they don't have a dome. Vandusen Gardens? Hm... dome... Butchart Gardens has a domed garden, don't they?? Ooo. Have to Google later. [It's the Bloedel Floral Conservatory. Darn! I was hoping for it to have been Butchart Gardens! That would have meant they were all on the Island where I am, but the logistics of moving production to the island for one scene would have been ridiculous. Anyway, in trying to track down the location I did run across this, which is a breakdown of fees and scheduling of what it costs to film in one partcular park in Vancouver. I think it's interesting, but I'm weird like that. ^.^]
-God's on Earth. Ooooo... As much fun as it would be if God was Bobby, I doubt that's likely. But it would be fun. Doubt it's a re-embodied John either. Hm.
-Gardener to gardener. Hehehe. Planting seeds, letting them grow and trying to keep the weeds from choking it all to death. Heheh.
-"Back off. He knows already." Not it's his plan to start the apocalypse, just he knows. God's testing. What angels do with free will and no supervision, maybe, I don't know. He knows what's happening, and could stop it, but isn't. ...you know, I never thought I'd be analysing God's motivation and tactics. This is weird. Needs more brain. And time. *nods* [And Dean's reaction needs screencapped, cause ow.]
-"Not his problem." Not that he doesn't care. That it's not his problem to solve. Important distinction. Yep. Here is the exercise for the class. You have free will. What do you do with it? Keep things on an even keel, destroy each other, start the Apocalypse, what? The experiment is still running, and the garden is still growing. I think, anyway. Hm. *ponders*
-Also, hello, confirmation God's still kicking around, although it's about the same effect as John phoning at the start of Scarecrow. Sort of.
-"God saved you already." YES! CONFIRMATION! God rescued the Winchesters from Lucifer rising and brought Castiel back! \o/ That's pretty freaking huge! And obviously done for a reason. God does not play dice with this particular universe. He plays ten-dimensional chess. He's not a mean GM. The PCs get in over their heads and they get a GM Fiat card played. Oooo. Nifty.
-*Spends rest of the conversation with Joshua rather mindblown, will brain much later* [Much much later.]
-Sweeeeet. My head hurts now.
-"Just another deadbeat dad with a bunch of excuses." OW. John's rep is taking a real pounding in these latter seasons, eh? Damn.
-[The thing is, though, that's what parents are supposed to do, isn't it? (Not the deadbeat bit, which John and God aren't, but the not fighting all your battles for you bit.) Parents are not magical creatures who solve all your problems forever and ever. You have to solve your own problems. Parents are theoretically supposed to give you the tools to deal with problems yourself, and let you solve them instead of fixing everything for you. Let you know you might think things are overwhelming and impossible, but that you really can handle it on your own. (Even if it means occasionally giving a behind-the-scenes assist, like depositing some emergency cash in a bank account, or pulling your butts out of Lucifer's blast radius, or raising you from "splattered by an archangel") I'm not a parent at all and never will be, but that seems like the general over-arching idea. Various individual vastly different real world experiences notwithstanding of course :-/. And of course since God's playing broken telephone here and relaying messages through Joshua, there's communications issues. Like in most families.]
-"You can't kill the Devil, and you're losing faith." Ooo. So was he just voicing Dean's inner doubt there, or was he saying that the Devil can't be killed? Ooo. And Dean's never had much religious faith, but this experience is shaking his faith in family and Sam, and that's key to everything. [That 'can't kill the devil' bit. If that's literal, which makes sense to me because of the whole preservation of balance thing, that means God's telling them there is another way to go than Lucifer kills Michael or Michael kills Lucifer. There's a third option, which I'm almost certain will involve epic hugging. See vid above. *nods*]
-"I just trim the hedges." Yeaaaah. In the Garden at the center of Heaven. And the Garden is a metaphorical construct for something. This guy could be like Heaven's Tech Support. And he's the only one God's talking to. So if this is a test of anyone, angelic or non, that makes this guy God's.... exam proctor? Gah! Needs more brain. O.O
-Eeek. I hope the Winchesters repop fast. It'd be rather awkward to come back while the other hunters are trying to do a salt and burn. Also ouchy. o.O
-Beer. Wow. Were those all there before, or did Ash come down and hang out protecting their corpses until they returned? o.O [Nope. All that was there at the start. I is unobservant this week.]
-Wow, those were very stupid hunters. I mean, hauling the corpses out of the hotel would be tricky, but no hint of an attempt to keep these two from haunting them? Unless they lit out in a panic, after the gunshots and all. Or someone made them go away and stood guard over the corpses. Or Sam and Dean went all vengeful spirit on them before getting sucked up to Heaven. They'll be found by the housekeeping staff, in very small chunks, wedged into the toilet tank. Or something. *nods*
-Hee! Sam ressurects with a silly face.
-"Maybe Joshua was lying." Aw. Awww. Castiel. Awwww. Please tell me Sam or Dean remembered to tell him that it's confirmed that God brought him back? Doesn't look like it. Aw. Crap. Aw.
-Seriously though, test of faith much? God brought him back for some reason. Castiel's faith is why he rebelled from Heaven and the usurping powers currently running the place. His faith is being tested here. I'm not sure, but I think it might be being tested for a reason other than the Apocalypse. Must ponder. Castiel's going to have some issues for a while though, I suspect.
-Amulet! "I don't need this anymore." Oh. "It's worthless." Oh oh oh. Ow.
-Uh oh. Sam's getting determined. Bad things happen when Sam gets determined.
-Aw Dean, no! Aw. Sometimes I want to smack Dean. Or shake him or something. Wake him up and make him see things objectively. But Dean's very subjective. Especially when he's had the crap kicked out of him on so many levels. Dammit, Dean.
-Everyone knows Sam totally fished the amulet out of the trash, right? It's a fact, whether it was on-screen or not. Because aside from the vitally important need for it to be re-presented to Dean by Sam at an appropriate juncture, it's still a God EMF. Sam knows God's on Earth, and Sam's all determined to fix things and probably going to try to do something silly like track down God himself and get all up in his face, which Lucifer will just love. Also since Sam's support network just flutter-bye'd/walked out the door, he might also do something silly like head to Chicago Detroit Chicago ...wherever the heck it is and say Yes to Lucifer because he figures he can resist from within, and so on and so forth. So all Hell is gonna break loose again some more. Sooner rather than later. And that amulet is not staying in that trash can. Because Dean needs to have it. Screw the apocalypse.
Anyway. As far as breaking the boys' will to resist, and breaking down support networks, and having everyone fissioned off into their own little worlds of pain and hurt (rather like individual anti-Heavens) and not pulling together to poke holes in this whole 'fate' thing Lucifer and Zachariah are trying to stuff down the boys throats? That was a damned effective maneuver. Also *points at Castiel* disheartening the member of the Winchester resistance support team who isn't Bobby. Yep, that's been accomplished quite thoroughly at the moment.
I'm starting to wonder if Zachariah and Lucifer aren't knowingly working together, because they seem to be forwarding each other's goals with tremendous efficiency... *ponders*
Anyway. Belly of the whale. Darkest before the dawn. Nowhere to go but up. All that stuff. Bring it on, Kripke. You're still a bastard, but I still have Zen, dammit.
(PLEASE, NO SPOILERS OR REFERENCES TO SPOILERY MATERIAL IN COMMENTS! The definition of spoiler for this journal is located in left hand sidebar and includes references to promo material as spoilers. Theory and speculation based on aired episodes only.)