So, she's also involved in the opening of the final seal, right? I'm thinking her death opens the final seal.
Sam killing her opens the final seal because he IS the final seal, as alluded to by Ruby in the episode...though both she and Sam aren't making that connection and instead think the Devil's #1 human twisted to demon is Lilith herself (ironic that Dean opened the first seal and Sam's the last one). That causes the issue for Dean where he has to either save Lilith to save the world and Sam or let Lilith die and therefore losing both Sam and the world.
Hm. I doubt that Ruby or whoever she's working for doesn't know exactly what Sam is being set up for there, regardless of whether Sam or Lillith is the final seal. She just isn't sharing the full info with Sam.
See, to me, I don't think Ruby knows. The power giving her orders? Totally knows. Just like Castiel, she's carrying out orders that she doesn't fully understand, but to me it seems like she believes that she's helping Sam stop it rather than hastening it.
Ah. And I think Ruby knows exatly what she's doing and is in no way innocent of anything, so that would be where the difference lies between our viewpoints. :-)
I think Sam must be the final seal. Ruby's story was all about how a human was lured into being the first demon. Um...Sam! I just can't quite figure where Lillith fits there any more. Apart from being the driving reason for him to drink the blood and therefore become a demon... hmmm. *hands* I'm not good at the thinky stuff.
As I understand it, in some traditional texts, Lilith was Adam's wife before Eve. Created from earth as an equal in all things, but she refused to be less than equal to Adam and then she was turned by Satan and became the mother of all monsters or something. According to some traditions which Show appears to be drawing on. Hence, she would be originally one of the first Humans, by that tradition. I don't know enough about the lore to properly comment, but I bet if you poke around spn heavy meta you'll find some essays on the traditional roles of Lilith and how they might relate to Show.
I don't think Lilith IS openning seals anymore. The demons she unleashed still are. Ruby is hunting her. I think Lilith is hiding from BOTH sides and Ruby and Sam find her. Ruby is hiding the fact that Lilith frees Lucifer - she just says that only Lilith "can do it" (with her death).
I don't believe that Ruby was actually referring to Sam. I've seen many people speculate that - and I understand why - but I just don't.
But I also totally believe that Sam's addicted. Flat out ugly junkie. And when they locked him up last episode my first thought was - "That won't work. You can't help a junkie who doesn't want help."
I don't believe that Ruby was actually referring to Sam. I've seen many people speculate that - and I understand why - but I just don't.
Neither do I. If they're going with the "Lilith was Adam's wife before Eve" it makes perfect sense, but lots of people don't know Lilith lore and assume she was never human.
But I also totally believe that Sam's addicted. Flat out ugly junkie.
Could be, but... I just have a feeling that's not what it is. But I have been very wrong before.
Ooh! I like your mother's milk/YED theory! I hadn't seen that postulated anywhere before and I like it! *pats CK on the back for her thinky thoughts* There could be tie-ins, too, with Meg telling Dean she was in there all along, wanting to be helped. And Jimmy "riding the comet" with Castiel. Sam could be buried deep inside this new thing that's born, and Dean needs to rescue him. I like that! Go tell Kripke. Misha said the writers have just sat down to start mapping out S5, so drop those kids an e-mail. Or an anvil
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Ooh! I like your mother's milk/YED theory! I hadn't seen that postulated anywhere before and I like it!
I've had it for a very long time, back into Season one. I was originally writing a huge epic AU (I've got significant chunks of it written I might post one of these days, even though a few scenes have now actually happened on the show, so I'd look like a goof) after the Season one finale which I never posted any of because I figured Kripke would never be that mean (har har har) and the Meta part started seeming more Meta and less AU.
There could be tie-ins, too, with Meg telling Dean she was in there all along, wanting to be helped. And Jimmy "riding the comet" with Castiel. Sam could be buried deep inside this new thing that's born, and Dean needs to rescue him. I like that!I know, there are little things that pop up here and there throughout the series that seem to support this being right... It's been freaking me out since season one. Particularly when something happens on the show that's just like something in a page and a
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Sam killing her opens the final seal because he IS the final seal, as alluded to by Ruby in the episode...though both she and Sam aren't making that connection and instead think the Devil's #1 human twisted to demon is Lilith herself (ironic that Dean opened the first seal and Sam's the last one). That causes the issue for Dean where he has to either save Lilith to save the world and Sam or let Lilith die and therefore losing both Sam and the world.
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I don't believe that Ruby was actually referring to Sam. I've seen many people speculate that - and I understand why - but I just don't.
But I also totally believe that Sam's addicted. Flat out ugly junkie. And when they locked him up last episode my first thought was - "That won't work. You can't help a junkie who doesn't want help."
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Exactly.
I don't believe that Ruby was actually referring to Sam. I've seen many people speculate that - and I understand why - but I just don't.
Neither do I. If they're going with the "Lilith was Adam's wife before Eve" it makes perfect sense, but lots of people don't know Lilith lore and assume she was never human.
But I also totally believe that Sam's addicted. Flat out ugly junkie.
Could be, but... I just have a feeling that's not what it is. But I have been very wrong before.
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I've had it for a very long time, back into Season one. I was originally writing a huge epic AU (I've got significant chunks of it written I might post one of these days, even though a few scenes have now actually happened on the show, so I'd look like a goof) after the Season one finale which I never posted any of because I figured Kripke would never be that mean (har har har) and the Meta part started seeming more Meta and less AU.
There could be tie-ins, too, with Meg telling Dean she was in there all along, wanting to be helped. And Jimmy "riding the comet" with Castiel. Sam could be buried deep inside this new thing that's born, and Dean needs to rescue him. I like that!I know, there are little things that pop up here and there throughout the series that seem to support this being right... It's been freaking me out since season one. Particularly when something happens on the show that's just like something in a page and a ( ... )
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