Dumbledore/Voldemort (first thoughts)

Apr 28, 2011 00:30


Sometimes, fanfictions can make you understand bits of canon you hadn’t previously appreciated. Despite my openess toward slash, I’ve never given a damn about Dumbledore’s homosexuality, for example, or about his relationship with Grindelwald, probably because I found it so alien from HP’s main plot line, or because it was simply badly written. In ( Read more... )

fanart, fic recs, theories, dumbledore/voldemort

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cabepfir May 14 2011, 21:47:37 UTC
Well, I told you that I was just explaining my points, not trying to convince you, since we know how much our opinions differ on some points :) And I'm sorry if I sounded harsh (I didn't want to), but as I told you, DD's death is actually my main problem with the HP series as a whole, so it's only logical that I would be passionate on the matter.

I received a literary education and studied mainly literature at university, up to getting a PhD in Comparative Literatures. So you're right, I have my own ideas about what books "should" and "shouldn't" be, and I'm imbued with notions about narratology, literary theory and the like. I studied especially epic poetry, which is a genre which follows a lot of rules, and I may be particularly fond of some rules in my books. This is the way I am, of course, not some ideal point of view, just my own.

Literary theorist Hans Robert Jauss coined the term "horizon of expectations" to define the plot developments you come to expect from a certain book. In this sense, the first half of a book is very important, because it sets the "expectations" the author, in a certain sense, promises to fulfil in the second half of the book. Genres condition the expectation you have about the development of the plot: for examples, in detective stories you expect the detective to find the murdered, in romances the hero and heroine to fall in love with each other, in adventure the hero to win against his enemies, etc.

Under this aspect, the plot developments in HP don’t always follow the “rules” JKR planted in the first four books, and this is what makes me speak of shifts in the tone of the books and so on. From this point of view, the fact that the books are supposed to be read one for year from 11 years old to 17 years old is an crack from a narrative point of view, because it provokes an unbalance in tone, information, language and so on, and from my point of view this is not good, also because nobody actually has read or will read them one for year. Now that the series is finished, especially, readers will read it all in a row from book 1 to book 7, experimenting the tone shift even faster than we did.

Yes, I’m stuck with the expectations the first books set out for me, but this doesn’t mean that I don’t appreciate some things from the later books. I didn’t call the books “disgusting”, it’s Dumbledore’s web that it’s disgusting, IMHO, and I - again, personally - can’t see the need for the change of perspective about Dumbledore’s character because it wasn’t in my “expectations”.

Yes, I’m obnoxious, but this is my nature, and I’m usually picky and overcritic about the books/comics/movies I read/watch. So, I don’t do this kind of criticism only about HP. It’s only that, with HP, I joined the fandom and shared many opinions that in other contexts remain only between me and me. In a certain sense, it’s a demonstration of love and interest ;)

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vhizen May 15 2011, 00:19:06 UTC
No worry. I tell myself that we just cannot be neutral, without affective reaction, about these books. I'm afraid that our emotions have an impact on our reading, understanding, expression, discussion and judgment. We are much more involved emotionally in them than in other books, with psychological factors we don't include in our literary theories. Even our expectations were higher and personally, I never get upset or that passionate over a literary debate before (apart from with my husband because we don't read the same things and it's irritating XD)... So, be sure I'm aware of it and I do try to think with more emotional distance and to remain cool about it. :)

I don't have a PhD in literature. I studied literature for 3 years, because initially I was meant to be a teacher (and I teach French Literature for High school students but it is not my diploma). Therefore, I won't enter into academic debates and analysis...

You know, personally, from the point of view of a simple but passionate reader, I do think that quite a good part of Rowling's books could have been written in a better way. For instance, I regret that the Deathly hallows are not present in the other books, earlier. The cloak is there, the ring comes late, but we don't see the sign, for example. Many things are like that, not well announced, information not optimally given, and it could have been done better. However, it's a complex project and story and ...a first book for the author. I'm not saying it justifies the flaws. It is just that overall, it has also some merit and good points. In particular, it could emotionally takes us very strongly. When my 75-year-old father, who's a big reader in life, read it, he was impressed by the range and strength of emotions that the author could create in the readers. The shifts and other "wrong" or weird narrative can be unbalanced and the whole series flawed and not so well written, but it did catch the readers' interest and did work on their ...nerves... and emotions.

And it did create a whole story, universe and characters that to me make sense. From my personal point of view, the incoherence you see in the books doesn't seem so incoherent and harmful to me. Basically, I guess I just don't see such a problematic crack between the first books and the last ones... (sorry, you gave me the link...I just need more time..). The first books and the last ones are a whole entity and their differences are not a problem to me : the complexity is getting bigger and the characters deeper with the years; the point of view, Harry's PoV, logically changes. The content is initially lighter and becomes more complex and heavier and the perspectives are reversed and volatiles, and here is precisely the deal. I mean, I read them being an adult and I'm more happy than disturbed by the evolution from the first to the last book. As you say, it'd be not good for you and it'd be not bad for me. :)

[I think it would not be exactly relevant here to say but I add that it's a general personal approach, finally. I read by preference the authors who broke the rules in their language and their composition; Dostoevsky's, Faulkner's or Rimbaud's readings (comparison being made only for the emotional impact they can have, not for the content or the writing style because I won't compare Rowling to them) strongly captivated me and you know that specialists in literature did not approve the ruptures when their books were published. Not that Rowling is an achieved author like the others...It is just that she's not that bad either, for me :)].

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cabepfir May 15 2011, 11:39:19 UTC
I never said that the series' faults prevent it from having an (enourmous) emotional impact! Isn't the very fact that we are still talking about it, four years after the release of DH, the very proof of a commitment that was born, despite its flaws? It's only that it could have been so much better. That's what I regret. I was disappointed exactly because my expectations were high.

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vhizen May 15 2011, 13:31:22 UTC
Yes, sure. I wish she could re-edit et improve some aspects of the books, too.

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vhizen May 15 2011, 00:22:45 UTC
Why is Snape a metal fan???

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cabepfir May 15 2011, 11:16:39 UTC
Ahah, because I'm one? ;)
no, in truth, he was a little punk at the end of the Seventies, listening to the Pistols and the Clash. At the beginning of the Eighties he turned into a fan of the Smiths (Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now is Snape manifesto!)

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vhizen May 15 2011, 13:29:49 UTC
LOL I didn't understand it was about music - hence my total question mark. You're right. He WAS a metal fan. XD (oh, did you see my young Snape in a Pistols T-shirt?)

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