Pros-y Love and Think-y Things...

[byslantedlight]

The best thing about doing something as intensely think-y as my current second-job is that I seem to have woken up wanting to read and think about nothing but Pros and our lads today, and I've not felt like that for aaaages, so yeay! And yeay for a day job where I can... *g* So just to get us started...

Comments

[constant_muse]

I really should be working, but I missed this discussion at ci5hq, so here's my bit.

I agree with sc_fossil (so you can skip the rest

[lukadreaming]

I am a bit confused about the crackvan comm, though, because apparently you can rec anything there, doesn't have to be crack!fic.

I think that's crack in a drugs sense -- bringing you your fix *g*.

[byslantedlight]

Hello! I was only at the discussion in chops and chips myself this weekend, so I'm not surprised you didn't see it...

Yeah, I get the "absurd" part of the definition from Sc_fossil as well, it's the steps after that that seem rather fuzzy and interesting to me - like the difference, then, between some AUs and "crackfic" or between the fics I mentioned up above and "crackfic". It seems as though they should be "crackfic" by the "absurd" definition, and yet they're never/rarely acknowledged as such, and I'm wondering why... It makes sense if it's more author-driven than story-driven, cos the authors aren't around to self-define (hmmn, so is "crackfic" author-defined rather than "reader-defined"?), or perhaps those older stories have just been ignored (definitionally - shush, it's a word now! *g*) by those currently writing crackfic

[lukadreaming]

Cat Tales I don't see as crackfic. Some of it is trying to decide on authorial intention -- I reckon she meant CTs to be serious, so therefore I'd categorise it as an AU.

[byslantedlight]

Ah, so then authorial intent is the key thing for you too, in defining "crackfic" - so in many ways it's more about the author than it is about the story?

[lukadreaming]

It's definitely a key factor!

Oops, sorry, hit 'send' before I was ready!

I think the self-conscious element does contribute to it being crackfic. There's a running joke in Primeval about Helen, the baddie, having the cleavage of doom and how she must go shopping for bras when she's back from the past! I wrote what I perceived to be a crackfic drabble based on her going bra shopping in London! Maybe other people just thought it was silly and corny fic *g*.

[byslantedlight]

I think the self-conscious element does contribute to it being crackfic.
Hmmn, that would make sense from the way I've been seeing it then - and Jaycat too, by the sounds. So... in that case, "crackfic" almost has to be contemporarily read as well - to some extent it's coming out of active fandom rather than standing alone as a story... Someone who knows the joke about your Primeval baddie would absolutely get the fic, but as you say, someone who isn't aware of it would be reading it from a different perspective altogether - without the discussion-specific background necessary to understand various nuances... Hmmn, which you already need to understand it as fanfic, so the discussion-specific nuances are an added layer... So maybe crackfic requires contemporary knowledge of specific "live discussions" to make it work properly? That could come from being on someone's flist, or following their lj, or from a specific thread... but it's very much "live" (that's not a great word, but the best I can think of) input... Archived "crack"

[lukadreaming]

I think it does have to be contemporary to retain the full meaning. There may be fic from, say, 30 years back which we think is just bad, but may have been an elaborate in-joke which we'd now call crackfic!

It almost adds another layer of shorthand onto the already present element in fanfic -- that assumption that your readers will know a lot of the background and the characteristics of the main characters which would have to be provided for a reader in mainstream/original fic.

[byslantedlight]

Yes, it's the layer thing that I was trying to get at up above - you not only have to know about the show and probably the fandom as well, you also have to know about the discussion and probably have taken part in it yourself in order to properly understand/appreciate the fic - otherwise it's just odd/bad babble-fic...

Which makes me wonder what the fans of twenty year's time might think of archives Prosfic - will they know that it once had a reputation for being pretty high quality, or will they look at all the effectively dead crackfic and wonder what in the world Pros fans thought they were talking about in the 2010s...? Hmmn!

I've certainly heard rumours that some fic from ages past was the result of an in-joke (well, the term "hatstander" itself, and actually perhaps again Weekend by the Lake - presumably if you know who those people are it all makes more sense... oh, and what about the fic of Olympian Heights?! There are an awful lot of in-jokes in those - perhaps those were once "crackfic

[lukadreaming]

I think your first par is true. A Weekend by the Lake depends on those of us who were there that weekend recognising people and incidents.

Sanctuary fic in Primeval depends on people knowing that it was set on on the Denial comm as a protest against our two favourite characters being killed off, but kept alive in this place called Sanctuary, overseen by a load of fangirls *g*.

Olympian Heights is the person I've been trying to think of all morning! I always assumed the fic was off-the-wall verging on in-jokes! What we'd probably now call crackfic, then *g*.

*Looks shifty*

Maybe. Let me have a think about it *g*.

[byslantedlight]

Hmmn - and yet as an outsider I still appreciate AWbtL and don't feel as if I have no idea what's going on - I understood it, and had an idea that it was written for love of the lads before I knew that it was based on an actual weekend etc... and I can't do that with alot of the more recent "crackfic" that's set in more absurd situations... maybe that's down to the situation then... it's absurd that the lads would descend on a con weekend, but if they were alive it wouldn't be beyond possibility. The idea of Bodie humping a car, for instance, I would see beyond the bounds of possibility, cos I just don't think he has it in his character... Oh, I wonder if that's another element of "crackfic" then - some distortion of canon characterisation in order to accommodate the absurdity? More hmmm... *g*

I've always thought Olympian Heights comedy was more historically-based rather than in-joke based - if you were alive at the time and followed the news, you'd understand the jokes. Rather like Have I Got News For You and other such

[lukadreaming]

With crackfic, most fans should be able to get some level of satisfaction from the text -- but it may be that those who attended a particular event or took part in a particular discussion will gain a higher level of understanding of the text.

I think crackfic does require an element of exaggeration/distortion to move it out of the comedy or AU category.

I haven't read Olympian Heights for ages, so I can't quote chapter and verse . . . *g*. I need to re-read to check for that satirical/cultural angle.

But coincidentally, I was talking to fredbassett this morning about Larton -- I finally persuaded her to read it. One of the things we were talking about were the references that suggested the writer was an older fan -- the fact that a glossary was provided backed that up. Rhiannon seems to acknowledge by doing this that many younger fans won't get the references.

[byslantedlight]

but it may be that those who attended a particular event or took part in a particular discussion will gain a higher level of understanding of the text
I think that's always going to depend on the talent/efforts of the author, but as general theory that makes sense!

Rhiannon seems to acknowledge by doing this that many younger fans won't get the references.Hmmn - but her glossary is most to distinguish the various characters and their backgrounds, I think? Rather like a play with lots of characters that need to be kept straight for maximum understanding! I've not got it with me here though, and I can't remember what else was in it

[lukadreaming]

There are two glossaries at the back of the Larton zine -- one characters, and one which is more cultural references.

I don't think crackfic is just specific to writers and their mates. I think it encompasses canon incidents or characters taken and made more absurd in some way. So it could be the situation or the people. You could have a fic with Doyle getting pregnant, say, and turning that into crackfic based on both the crazy situation and the way he reacts (and yes, I know MPREG is a different category, but I can definitely see some MPREG as crackfic!)

I think the cultural references are definitely something apart . . .

[byslantedlight]

turning that into crackfic based on both the crazy situation and the way he reacts
So this is bringing the definition back purely to "crazy situation" and presumably "humour"...

I think all I've decided throughout all this is that there are as many different definitions to "crackfic" as there are... camels in a desert (*g*) and I still really, really dislike labels... *vbg*

[constant_muse]

Thanks for "The Cat Tales".

I've learned something today - that crack fic (at least labelled as such) is a relatively recent genre.