Timber Home Improvement LLC loses the game
There is this company called Timber Home Improvement, Limited Liability Corporation at 7500 NE 16th in Vancouver, Washington which sent a representative to our house yesterday and then today.
Just so happens I am interested in getting an idea how much it would cost to fix the roof in the back part of our house, so I thought this would be a good opportunity to see what it could do for our house.
The guy, named Bryan, took down our names, address and telephone number. He warned me that Desiree would call to confirm the appointment. Sure enough, about five minutes after Bryan left, she called and mispronounced our names (even though I spent some time explaining this to Bryan)...also asking us the same questions about how many years we have lived here, when the roof was last replaced and so on.
Bryan provided me with the Oregon CCB number and the one for Washington. Also his slip of paper said their business was a member of the Better Business Bureau and that they were a "Lead-Safe Certified Firm".
So I did the research on them.
The BBB had two complaints filed against this company and the CCB had one dispute and 3 civil penalties and fines.
Despite what the little slip of paper said about lead safe certified, the company does not have a lead-based paint renovators license which is required for this kind of work. I am not sure what "Lead-Safe Certified Firm" means but if you don't have the license it means nothing.
The company was penalized for not obtaining a permit for its work, not providing an information notice to a customer and not providing the required consumer notice.
The BBB notes that the company specializes in window replacement doors and decks but does not mention roofs. Most likely this is a relatively new thing for the company, a company which actually hasn't been around long enough to get good marks on that score from the BBB (the BBB otherwise thinks the company is fine). The BBB's complaints are from May 3, 2010 where there was an issue with the company's advertising and sales tactics and from Dec. 24, 2012 where there was a service problem.
The company's principals are Matthew Clayton Van Dyke and Roy Daniel Rasor, Sr. A person named Eric Waldal has also been associated with the company but it was unclear whether he is still on board.
The company itself also operates out of Redmond in Central Oregon and its partners have been connected with two other companies: Desert Willow Construction and University Windows Doors and Remodeling. The Oregon CCB actually suspended the license of Desert Willow when it could not provide a surety bond for its work.
So we have an out-of-town firm with a spotty reputation...and with typical high pressure sales tactics already on display. Why should I agree to see them? Maybe to learn what a roof job to our specifications might cost. At least that is what I was hoping.
I met with Matthew today. He may, in fact, be the Matthew Clayton Van Dyke listed by the CCB.
He asked me the same questions that both Bryan and Desiree asked. I complained with rhetorical questions "Why are you asking me the same questions I was asked twice already by two other people from your company? Don't you talk with each other?" That certainly did not make me feel good about their operation. And, once again, mispronouced names.
Also, Matthew asked about what I was interested in and immediately went in a totally different direction. I said "our back roof is relatively flat and has been leaking for at least five years." He asked about it a bit but quickly moved to the entire roof. "Yes, I'd be willing to look at that: it is coming time to do the entire roof. However, it is the back roof I really need to look at." And what did I want to do about the entire roof? "Metal...has to last at least 50 years." And again he steered into the special shingles from Owens-Corning with a 50 year guarantee: meaningless if they have to pull the things off again and mess up our solar panels.
I was going with it until he started harping about the need to have my wife here with me to hear the sales pitch. "We really need to have both of you here...and we can't afford to send our reps several times..."
"Well, Marisa needs her sleep right now so can't come down."
"I would really like to explain to both of you our many roof features. So if you would like me to schedule another time when both of you can be here...."
"Wait a second. You said you can't afford to have your representatives return to the same location numerous times. Then I guess you are out of luck. I don't want to add extra expenses to your company by arranging another meeting...and you won't talk to me by myself. Thanks for coming by. Good bye."
He sputtered something about it not being too expensive to return, but I was fed up with his double-talk. He kept steering the conversation away from our problem into something entirely out of my area of interest.
Whatever firm I hire has to:
* have a representative sit down with me and propose a plan and provide a cost estimate...a cost estimate that has at least some detail in terms of materials and labor.
* address my problems and not its idea of what my problems are.
* allow me time to consider the proposal and weigh against others.
* do the work itself with no subcontractors.
* not require money upfront for anything except perhaps some reasonable seed amount for basic materials.
* provide me with a list of references so I can determine how the work was done at other locations.
* allow me to pick the materials I feel are correct for the job (and if the materials they are willing to work with do not meet my specs, they are not hired).
* obtain permits.
* have a spotless record with BBB and Oregon CCB and hold all required licenses and certifications that are legally necessary.
* be a local company with a physical address.
These are just basics. There should be several companies which meet these criteria. Companies which do not should, out of hand, be rejected.
To choose among companies meeting the basic criteria means additional research, pricing of estimates, making sure the schedules match and so on.
However, Timber Home Improvement, LLC doesn't even get to first base.
Just so happens I am interested in getting an idea how much it would cost to fix the roof in the back part of our house, so I thought this would be a good opportunity to see what it could do for our house.
The guy, named Bryan, took down our names, address and telephone number. He warned me that Desiree would call to confirm the appointment. Sure enough, about five minutes after Bryan left, she called and mispronounced our names (even though I spent some time explaining this to Bryan)...also asking us the same questions about how many years we have lived here, when the roof was last replaced and so on.
Bryan provided me with the Oregon CCB number and the one for Washington. Also his slip of paper said their business was a member of the Better Business Bureau and that they were a "Lead-Safe Certified Firm".
So I did the research on them.
The BBB had two complaints filed against this company and the CCB had one dispute and 3 civil penalties and fines.
Despite what the little slip of paper said about lead safe certified, the company does not have a lead-based paint renovators license which is required for this kind of work. I am not sure what "Lead-Safe Certified Firm" means but if you don't have the license it means nothing.
The company was penalized for not obtaining a permit for its work, not providing an information notice to a customer and not providing the required consumer notice.
The BBB notes that the company specializes in window replacement doors and decks but does not mention roofs. Most likely this is a relatively new thing for the company, a company which actually hasn't been around long enough to get good marks on that score from the BBB (the BBB otherwise thinks the company is fine). The BBB's complaints are from May 3, 2010 where there was an issue with the company's advertising and sales tactics and from Dec. 24, 2012 where there was a service problem.
The company's principals are Matthew Clayton Van Dyke and Roy Daniel Rasor, Sr. A person named Eric Waldal has also been associated with the company but it was unclear whether he is still on board.
The company itself also operates out of Redmond in Central Oregon and its partners have been connected with two other companies: Desert Willow Construction and University Windows Doors and Remodeling. The Oregon CCB actually suspended the license of Desert Willow when it could not provide a surety bond for its work.
So we have an out-of-town firm with a spotty reputation...and with typical high pressure sales tactics already on display. Why should I agree to see them? Maybe to learn what a roof job to our specifications might cost. At least that is what I was hoping.
I met with Matthew today. He may, in fact, be the Matthew Clayton Van Dyke listed by the CCB.
He asked me the same questions that both Bryan and Desiree asked. I complained with rhetorical questions "Why are you asking me the same questions I was asked twice already by two other people from your company? Don't you talk with each other?" That certainly did not make me feel good about their operation. And, once again, mispronouced names.
Also, Matthew asked about what I was interested in and immediately went in a totally different direction. I said "our back roof is relatively flat and has been leaking for at least five years." He asked about it a bit but quickly moved to the entire roof. "Yes, I'd be willing to look at that: it is coming time to do the entire roof. However, it is the back roof I really need to look at." And what did I want to do about the entire roof? "Metal...has to last at least 50 years." And again he steered into the special shingles from Owens-Corning with a 50 year guarantee: meaningless if they have to pull the things off again and mess up our solar panels.
I was going with it until he started harping about the need to have my wife here with me to hear the sales pitch. "We really need to have both of you here...and we can't afford to send our reps several times..."
"Well, Marisa needs her sleep right now so can't come down."
"I would really like to explain to both of you our many roof features. So if you would like me to schedule another time when both of you can be here...."
"Wait a second. You said you can't afford to have your representatives return to the same location numerous times. Then I guess you are out of luck. I don't want to add extra expenses to your company by arranging another meeting...and you won't talk to me by myself. Thanks for coming by. Good bye."
He sputtered something about it not being too expensive to return, but I was fed up with his double-talk. He kept steering the conversation away from our problem into something entirely out of my area of interest.
Whatever firm I hire has to:
* have a representative sit down with me and propose a plan and provide a cost estimate...a cost estimate that has at least some detail in terms of materials and labor.
* address my problems and not its idea of what my problems are.
* allow me time to consider the proposal and weigh against others.
* do the work itself with no subcontractors.
* not require money upfront for anything except perhaps some reasonable seed amount for basic materials.
* provide me with a list of references so I can determine how the work was done at other locations.
* allow me to pick the materials I feel are correct for the job (and if the materials they are willing to work with do not meet my specs, they are not hired).
* obtain permits.
* have a spotless record with BBB and Oregon CCB and hold all required licenses and certifications that are legally necessary.
* be a local company with a physical address.
These are just basics. There should be several companies which meet these criteria. Companies which do not should, out of hand, be rejected.
To choose among companies meeting the basic criteria means additional research, pricing of estimates, making sure the schedules match and so on.
However, Timber Home Improvement, LLC doesn't even get to first base.