Star Trek 2009: Third viewing (in as many days!)

[butterfly]

So, I actually ended up grabbing another viewing of Star Trek last night (I don't think that I've ever watched a movie three times in its opening weekend) and wanted to share additional squee and thoughts.

Comments

[milly]

Of course, the same argument plus a season goes for Chekov, but he's so firmly identified as part of the core crew that it would have been hard for them to leave him off, even if it technically doesn't make as much sense as it shouldWell, I personally just waved it off by saying that anyway, all their lives were changed by the events with the Kelvin - maybe Chekov was impressed by that story and decided, at an even younger age, to join Starfleet? Technically, I don't think Enterprise was *this* new either when Kirk became captain, I think there was supposed to be another crew for more or less lenghty period of time before, so that's changed as well

[ivydoor]

'Yes, I believe you are', I went 'oh, he's so whipped'

Hee! I did that as well. Cracked me up. The whole audience (well, the few dozen or so people at our showing at least) roared with laughter at that moment.

[butterfly]

As for Spock/Uhura - the moment she went 'I'm assigned to the Enterprise' and he changed it on his pad and went 'Yes, I believe you are', I went 'oh, he's so whipped', so I knew from there they were in a relationship. From then on, it was basically the looks they shared that seemed obvious for me that if they were not in a romantic relationship, at least they were close.

See, if they are in a relationship at that point, then that feels like an abuse of it to me, which doesn't feel true to either of their characters. If they aren't, then it just feels like she's pwning him with her obvious awesome. I can only respect them if they aren't yet in a relationship, I guess.

(and, of course, YMMV and whatnot. It just works a lot better for me, characterization-wise, if the first overtly romantic move in their relationship is the moment in the turbolift)

[milly]

I don't see it that way - Spock assigned her elsewhere so that it wouldn't look like he's giving her an unfair advantage ('I thought it might appear as though I was biased' or something of the sort), she pwned that logic with the sheer awesome of her logic. I sort of call it logic foreplay, which feels true to their character and would definitely turn Spock on *coughs*.

I would only see it as abuse of a relationship if she didn't belong on Enterprise and used her relationship with him to get in, but she got in by showing how it was the more logical choice. Showing superior logic in order to convince someone, not through lying or manipulating, I would think, is just a normal part of a relationship with a vulcan.

[butterfly]

Again, this is obviously something that there is, I think, valid disagreement on, because until the kiss, it's all subtext. From my reading, I really can't get to 'prior romantic relationship' (and I have all sorts of other reasons for seeing that apart from the work-conflict issue, starting with actual story preference to generally see the beginning of romantic relationships in order to buy into them).

I did try to see it as an established relationship the second and third times through and it still wasn't computing for me. The kiss in the turbolift just feels so much like a first time. Partly because that's what I'd prefer, but partly just because their earlier interactions don't read that way to me from Spock's end. I don't get any romantic vibes from him to Uhura until their second kiss in the turbolift, after she's asked him what he needs

[milly]

T'Pring and Spock being bonded

Well, that's if it's still the case in this universe - the Kelvin events changed a lot of things, ripples and whatnots, and they joined the Enterprise much earlier than in TOS, so I assumed Spock had not been bonded with T'Pring since there was no mention of it whatsoever previous to the destruction of Vulcan or after it. If that had been the case, then I definitely would have had a problem with the relationship *nods* - weither it was a first kiss or not, because I can see valid points for both. I've seen people say that if it was a first kiss, then she was taking advantage of him at a time where he was emotionally distraught - which I don't fully agree with, but I can understand it as a standpoint, but it's problably why it makes more sense to me as a romantic relationship before the kiss. Now, weither it was physical romantic relationship before the turbo lift kiss, I don't know and again, both explanations stand - however I have trouble seeing the huge leap between platonic friendship and physical

[butterfly]

He would have been bonded with someone, if not T'Pring. Unless you're thinking that he was bonded to someone and that person died? I'm just not sure how the Kelvin event could change the basic principles of Vulcan relationships

[milly]

I completely forgot that the bonding was so early on for Vulcans - since he had no mention whatsoever about saving that person, or didn't mention anyone, I just assumed there was no one.

and it kinda makes it feel more like it's a throwaway relationship if they got together in the mysterious 'three years later' between Kirk joining up and Kirk cheating on the Maru test -- like the relationship with her isn't actually important to his development as a character. She feels more like a prop, which I find depressingSee, we have the same reading, but a different start point - to me, if the relationship just happens at that point and there was nothing prior, nothing there before Vulcan was destroyed and Spock found himself thrown and emotionally distraught, then to me it reads like a throwaway relationship. It just happened because the rules permitted it at that point, and she was there, and he needed someone. However, and that's probaby the biggest reason why I think it was a romantic, but not physical relationship before, if there were

[butterfly]

Oh, if you're assuming there were romantic feelings, but no explicit romantic acts (like kissing), I think we might actually be on the same page. I'm not adverse to them having had a romantic tinge to their relationship, I just can't see Spock having a sexual relationship with someone that he teaches (or allowing himself to act inappropriately with them) unless there's something devastating (like the destruction of Vulcan and the loss of his mother) shading the equation.

I mean, I think there are lots of people that Spock would have unmistakably (though politely) rejected if they'd done what Uhura did.

[butterfly]

a) I love your icon.

b) Yay! I'm also glad to feel less crazy hearing that someone else saw it the same way.

[lucky_guess]

I definitely see their first kiss as happening in the turbolift too -- the moment was so delicate I held my breath the entire time -- and how they were navigating around one another definitely felt as if they had never done that sort of thing before. It was a lovely moment, really, really well done -- I think that was when I completely fell in love with Zachary Quinto's Spock and his choices as an actor -- how he reacted to her was absolutely brilliant.

[butterfly]

Thank you. 'Delicate' is such a good word for how that moment felt.

[mrs_underhill]

I definitely see their first kiss as happening in the turbolift too -- the moment was so delicate I held my breath the entire time -- and how they were navigating around one another definitely felt as if they had never done that sort of thing before.Yes, yes! That's how I saw it too, and that's why I loved that moment. As it felt like something extraodinary was happening. Got shivers down my spine. Definitely the first-time kiss