he talked to Luke about his father. I was struck by how Obi-Wan's words to Luke about his father's 'death' so closely follow what Yoda tells him in RotS before sending him off to kill Anakin/Vader.
he actually has to see Anakin do something horrible Is that the actual meaning of that scene? Because although Yoda seems to think Anakin's turn is a possibility - he certainly doesn't seem surprised by the security footage, Obi-Wan was disturbed/surprised and previously has trusted Anakin completely. - 'He will not let me down. He never has.' - I thought it was more of an impulse on Obi-Wan's part to watch his friend die. Although if they hadn't watched the footage would they have known Palpatine was the Sith? Palpatine told Anakin told Mace, and the arresting Jedi knew, but did anyone else?
He doesn't try to help him and he doesn't try to kill him.Definitely attachment there, though I have to wonder about the Jedi code. Anakin seems vehemently attached to it - that to kill an unarmed prisoner is wrong - both when Anakin kills a
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I was struck by how Obi-Wan's words to Luke about his father's 'death' so closely follow what Yoda tells him in RotS before sending him off to kill Anakin/Vader.
Made sense in a sad way. After all that time, Obi-Wan himself still didn't have the words, so he used Yoda's. He couldn't stand to put it in his own words.
Is that the actual meaning of that scene? Because although Yoda seems to think Anakin's turn is a possibility - he certainly doesn't seem surprised by the security footage, Obi-Wan was disturbed/surprised and previously has trusted Anakin completely. - 'He will not let me down. He never has.' - I thought it was more of an impulse on Obi-Wan's part to watch his friend die. Although if they hadn't watched the footage would they have known Palpatine was the Sith? Palpatine told Anakin told Mace, and the arresting Jedi knew, but did anyone else?I think that it served both purposes -- they needed to know the identities of both Master and Apprentice. It's just that finding out about Anakin was a bit more emotional for Obi-Wan
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After all that time, Obi-Wan himself still didn't have the words Ouch. Just... ouch.
that Anakin wasn't truly a Jedi, but It certainly seems that when it comes to Anakin Obi-Wan isn't exactly full of Jedi calm. And if he thinks he should have seem something/stopped Anakin before it was too late then that's even more guilt for him to heap upon himself.
they needed to know the identities of both Master and Apprentice. It makes me wonder what their plan was - if at this point they don't know about Vader/Anakin/Palpatine/Sidious, what would they do? Just turn the beacon off and flee?
Anakin wasn't trying to let go, where Obi-Wan did try Yep. And Vader wins the ANH because Kenobi stops fighting. He doesn't win because he's the better/stronger swordsman, but because the other stopped fighting. That must be a kick in the teeth. Huh, theme in Star Wars - attaining victory by ceasing to fight. :wanders off thinking:
It certainly seems that when it comes to Anakin Obi-Wan isn't exactly full of Jedi calm. And if he thinks he should have seem something/stopped Anakin before it was too late then that's even more guilt for him to heap upon himself.
*nods*
Part of what I love about the novelization is that it more clearly states both why Obi-Wan thinks that Anakin isn't quite a Jedi and yet also why he so firmly believes that Anakin could never betray the order. That Anakin has loyalty to people over abstract ideas. I think that Obi-Wan thinks that he should have been able to see, but that's why the Emperor set him up to go fight General Grievous -- I really do believe that if Obi-Wan had been there, if Anakin could have talked to him when he found out that Palpatine was a Sith, that he could have been saved
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Anakin has loyalty to people over abstract ideas But his 'people' lotyalty is limited - really to Padme, Obi-Wan and Palpatine. And despite the Jedi prohibition about attachments it's his connection with Obi-Wan that keeps him part of the order for as long as it does. (I love the moment in the film where Palpatine is listing the necessity of the Jedi deaths 'even your friend Obi-Wan Kenobi' and you see Anakin/Vader just pausing and then steel himself). Especially together with the Emperor's execution of Order 66 - that the first occasion of the order is the attempt on the life of Kenobi. That - and Anakin's later plans for Kenobi - I think the book mentions him wanting Obi-Wan to find an isolated planet and meditate - shows a contined attachment, at least on Anakin's part.
if Obi-Wan had been there, if Anakin could have talked to him when he found out that Palpatine was a Sith, that he could have been saved.I tend to think that too - expecially in the book where Anakin gets the news and is all panicky and needing to talk to him. But
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I was struck by how Obi-Wan's words to Luke about his father's 'death' so closely follow what Yoda tells him in RotS before sending him off to kill Anakin/Vader.
he actually has to see Anakin do something horrible
Is that the actual meaning of that scene? Because although Yoda seems to think Anakin's turn is a possibility - he certainly doesn't seem surprised by the security footage, Obi-Wan was disturbed/surprised and previously has trusted Anakin completely. - 'He will not let me down. He never has.' - I thought it was more of an impulse on Obi-Wan's part to watch his friend die. Although if they hadn't watched the footage would they have known Palpatine was the Sith? Palpatine told Anakin told Mace, and the arresting Jedi knew, but did anyone else?
He doesn't try to help him and he doesn't try to kill him.Definitely attachment there, though I have to wonder about the Jedi code. Anakin seems vehemently attached to it - that to kill an unarmed prisoner is wrong - both when Anakin kills a ( ... )
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Made sense in a sad way. After all that time, Obi-Wan himself still didn't have the words, so he used Yoda's. He couldn't stand to put it in his own words.
Is that the actual meaning of that scene? Because although Yoda seems to think Anakin's turn is a possibility - he certainly doesn't seem surprised by the security footage, Obi-Wan was disturbed/surprised and previously has trusted Anakin completely. - 'He will not let me down. He never has.' - I thought it was more of an impulse on Obi-Wan's part to watch his friend die. Although if they hadn't watched the footage would they have known Palpatine was the Sith? Palpatine told Anakin told Mace, and the arresting Jedi knew, but did anyone else?I think that it served both purposes -- they needed to know the identities of both Master and Apprentice. It's just that finding out about Anakin was a bit more emotional for Obi-Wan ( ... )
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Ouch. Just... ouch.
that Anakin wasn't truly a Jedi, but
It certainly seems that when it comes to Anakin Obi-Wan isn't exactly full of Jedi calm. And if he thinks he should have seem something/stopped Anakin before it was too late then that's even more guilt for him to heap upon himself.
they needed to know the identities of both Master and Apprentice.
It makes me wonder what their plan was - if at this point they don't know about Vader/Anakin/Palpatine/Sidious, what would they do? Just turn the beacon off and flee?
Anakin wasn't trying to let go, where Obi-Wan did try
Yep. And Vader wins the ANH because Kenobi stops fighting. He doesn't win because he's the better/stronger swordsman, but because the other stopped fighting. That must be a kick in the teeth. Huh, theme in Star Wars - attaining victory by ceasing to fight. :wanders off thinking:
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*nods*
Part of what I love about the novelization is that it more clearly states both why Obi-Wan thinks that Anakin isn't quite a Jedi and yet also why he so firmly believes that Anakin could never betray the order. That Anakin has loyalty to people over abstract ideas. I think that Obi-Wan thinks that he should have been able to see, but that's why the Emperor set him up to go fight General Grievous -- I really do believe that if Obi-Wan had been there, if Anakin could have talked to him when he found out that Palpatine was a Sith, that he could have been saved ( ... )
Reply
But his 'people' lotyalty is limited - really to Padme, Obi-Wan and Palpatine. And despite the Jedi prohibition about attachments it's his connection with Obi-Wan that keeps him part of the order for as long as it does. (I love the moment in the film where Palpatine is listing the necessity of the Jedi deaths 'even your friend Obi-Wan Kenobi' and you see Anakin/Vader just pausing and then steel himself). Especially together with the Emperor's execution of Order 66 - that the first occasion of the order is the attempt on the life of Kenobi. That - and Anakin's later plans for Kenobi - I think the book mentions him wanting Obi-Wan to find an isolated planet and meditate - shows a contined attachment, at least on Anakin's part.
if Obi-Wan had been there, if Anakin could have talked to him when he found out that Palpatine was a Sith, that he could have been saved.I tend to think that too - expecially in the book where Anakin gets the news and is all panicky and needing to talk to him. But ( ... )
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