Sorry...
I would like to publicly appologise to Kyra about only posting excerpts from our conversation about gay marriage the other night. I really don't know why I did, but I do realise that it was unfair and unsportsmanlike to do so. I'm sorry, Kyra.
basilutter (9:47:00 PM): i was wondering if we could have a discussion about it
Tinnuelenath (9:47:09): okay
basilutter (9:47:22 PM): so...what's wrong with gay marriage?
Tinnuelenath (9:47:45 PM): it's a sin according to the bible
basilutter (9:48:51 PM): yes, but it's only one line in the entire book, and there is no reason for judeo-christians to force there beliefs on athiests, muslims, pagans, and everyone else
Tinnuelenath (9:49:30 PM): i think marriage is sacred between a man and a woman
Tinnuelenath (9:49:34 PM): and if gay marriage is allowed
Tinnuelenath (9:49:38 PM): who knows what will be next
Tinnuelenath (9:49:50 PM): in another ten years you watch you'll get people saying they want to marry animals
basilutter (9:49:59 PM): isn't marriage simply put simply about love?
basilutter (9:50:38 PM): see, that is just ridiculous, if for no other reason that marriage is consentual, and you simply cannot get consent from a ferrit
basilutter (9:52:31 PM): do you actually not think homosexuals and bisexuals deserve the same rights as heterosexuals?
Tinnuelenath (9:52:40 PM): yeah
Tinnuelenath (9:52:46 PM): i don't believe in it
basilutter (9:53:42 PM): hypothetically, what would happen if while you were at vassar, you fell in love with a woman there?
Tinnuelenath (9:53:49 PM): it wouldn't happen
basilutter (9:53:55 PM): you never know
Tinnuelenath (9:53:57 PM): i know
basilutter (9:54:05 PM): well, what if your sister did?
Tinnuelenath (9:54:13 PM): i wouldn't support it
Tinnuelenath (9:54:19 PM): my family wouldn't either
Tinnuelenath (9:54:28 PM): she'd be excommunicated from the church too
basilutter (9:54:39 PM): i forget; are you catholic?
Tinnuelenath (9:54:42 PM): orthodox
basilutter (9:54:47 PM): huh
Tinnuelenath (9:54:52 PM): i'm orthodox
Tinnuelenath (9:54:59 PM): orthodox christian
basilutter (9:55:07 PM): i know; that was a "huh, i see"
Tinnuelenath (9:55:11 PM): oh
basilutter (9:57:04 PM): so, the Bible is essentially the entire basis of the anti-gay movement?
Tinnuelenath (9:57:17 PM): not entire but it is a good part of it
Tinnuelenath (9:57:35 PM): i don't know for a fact.. but i don't think muslims or other religions support it
basilutter (9:58:15 PM): and you don't believe people can simply be good people without regard for religious dogma?
Tinnuelenath (9:58:35 PM): it depends on if they are part of the religion
Tinnuelenath (9:59:15 PM): like i'm not into the whole gay bishop in episcopal church
basilutter (10:00:24 PM): then why shouldn't agnostics be able to have gay marriages?
Tinnuelenath (10:01:07 PM): so you think we should have a law that says only some gays should be married?
Tinnuelenath (10:01:34 PM): i say all or none.. and i definetly chose none
basilutter (10:02:23 PM): okay
basilutter (10:03:02 PM): well, thank you then
basilutter (10:03:46 PM): i guess i was right in that religion is the only defense behind the anti-gay rights platform
Tinnuelenath (10:03:55 PM): depends on who you ask
Tinnuelenath (10:04:11 PM): my personal objection to it isn't religion based
Tinnuelenath (10:04:20 PM): religion plays a part in it
basilutter (10:04:43 PM): your thing is that marriage is a union between man and woman?
Tinnuelenath (10:04:50 PM): yeah
basilutter (10:05:02 PM): and what says this? tradition?
Tinnuelenath (10:05:21 PM): yes
basilutter (10:05:52 PM): okay
basilutter (10:07:09 PM): do you think anything of anti-gay feelings causing people to live in denial and fear of their true sexuallity?
Tinnuelenath (10:07:18 PM): no
basilutter (10:07:31 PM): why not? because they're sinners?
Tinnuelenath (10:08:26 PM): what?
Tinnuelenath (10:08:48 PM): ohh ok
Tinnuelenath (10:08:52 PM): i see what you mean now
basilutter (10:09:04 PM): you think they should be ashamed of who they are?
Tinnuelenath (10:09:53 PM): ok
Tinnuelenath (10:09:56 PM): this is what i think about that
Tinnuelenath (10:11:49 PM): sexual attraction is something that is in us.. like an instinct.. and i don't understand how a trait like homosexuality can be something in humans or any animals for that matter because it isn't an evolutionary advantage
Tinnuelenath (10:11:53 PM): (there's more)
Tinnuelenath (10:12:16 PM): homosexuality has become this huge thing
Tinnuelenath (10:12:24 PM): and i think a lot of it is people feeding off eachother
Tinnuelenath (10:12:38 PM): a lot of teenagers want to "find themselves" or whatever and get into the whole being gay hting
Tinnuelenath (10:12:50 PM): and all of this gay rights stuff is just encouraging it
basilutter (10:14:31 PM): "the whole being gay thing"? you're saying it's some fad?
Tinnuelenath (10:14:39 PM): i think to some extent yes
basilutter (10:15:17 PM): you do realise that it's been around for centuries; whitman, tchycowski, da vinci...all gay
Tinnuelenath (10:15:30 PM): i know it has been around
Tinnuelenath (10:15:34 PM): but it has not been this big
Tinnuelenath (10:15:52 PM): they don't know da vinci was gay they believe so
Tinnuelenath (10:15:56 PM): it depends on who you ask
basilutter (10:16:24 PM): well, back then it was even more important to keep those feelings under wraps
basilutter (10:16:54 PM): now, it's not as big a deal, so people are a bit freer to accept who they are
Tinnuelenath (10:17:04 PM): or to succumb to the fad
basilutter (10:18:36 PM): do you think it's fasionable to endure taunts from your classmates and familly because of who you are?
Tinnuelenath (10:19:13 PM): i don't think that
Tinnuelenath (10:19:27 PM): but being against it and being outright mean about being against it are two different thigns
Tinnuelenath (10:22:20 PM): ok think about this
basilutter (10:22:23 PM): sure
Tinnuelenath (10:22:29 PM): going along the lines of who someone is
Tinnuelenath (10:22:42 PM): say someone has something they like to do
Tinnuelenath (10:22:56 PM): umm
Tinnuelenath (10:23:57 PM): they are addicted to some drug.. and they go home everyday and take this drug because it is such a part of their life.. it has become part of them
Tinnuelenath (10:24:03 PM): this addiction is part of the person
basilutter (10:24:58 PM): *nods*
Tinnuelenath (10:25:14 PM): so this person is a drug addict.. they don't harm anyone else
Tinnuelenath (10:25:20 PM): they just go and do their own thing
Tinnuelenath (10:26:09 PM): do you think they should be allowed to go home and do drugs just because it is a part of who they are?
Tinnuelenath (10:26:17 PM): some things in us we need to supress
Tinnuelenath (10:26:30 PM): and i don't think being gay is natural.. id on't know where it comes from
basilutter (10:26:36 PM): but a. they conciencessly made the choice to take the drug, while sexuallity is not a choice and b. homosexuallity isn't harmful to you, except your soul if you believe that to be true
Tinnuelenath (10:26:46 PM): i do
Tinnuelenath (10:26:55 PM): aren't you christian?
basilutter (10:27:01 PM): barely
Tinnuelenath (10:27:12 PM): you don't believe in the bible?
basilutter (10:27:21 PM): not the entire bible
basilutter (10:27:38 PM): okay, the bible; is there more condemning adultry or homosexuallity?
Tinnuelenath (10:28:06 PM): adultry
Tinnuelenath (10:28:14 PM): but both are there
basilutter (10:28:40 PM): adultry is one of the commandments; why restrict the rights of homosexuals and not adullterers?
Tinnuelenath (10:29:49 PM): i feel both should be restricted
Tinnuelenath (10:30:00 PM): if it were up to me people like that would have legal things to contend with
Tinnuelenath (10:30:53 PM): i'm not saying adulterers should be able to roam free as they will
basilutter (10:31:05 PM): ah
basilutter (10:33:16 PM): you don't think that the bible should be taken with a grain of salt though? i've heard that there is a lot of contradition in it
Tinnuelenath (10:34:20 PM): no i ddon't think it should be taken with a grain of salt
basilutter (10:34:43 PM): *nods*
Tinnuelenath (10:37:07 PM): ok i've gotta go help my mom make christmas cards
basilutter (9:47:00 PM): i was wondering if we could have a discussion about it
Tinnuelenath (9:47:09): okay
basilutter (9:47:22 PM): so...what's wrong with gay marriage?
Tinnuelenath (9:47:45 PM): it's a sin according to the bible
basilutter (9:48:51 PM): yes, but it's only one line in the entire book, and there is no reason for judeo-christians to force there beliefs on athiests, muslims, pagans, and everyone else
Tinnuelenath (9:49:30 PM): i think marriage is sacred between a man and a woman
Tinnuelenath (9:49:34 PM): and if gay marriage is allowed
Tinnuelenath (9:49:38 PM): who knows what will be next
Tinnuelenath (9:49:50 PM): in another ten years you watch you'll get people saying they want to marry animals
basilutter (9:49:59 PM): isn't marriage simply put simply about love?
basilutter (9:50:38 PM): see, that is just ridiculous, if for no other reason that marriage is consentual, and you simply cannot get consent from a ferrit
basilutter (9:52:31 PM): do you actually not think homosexuals and bisexuals deserve the same rights as heterosexuals?
Tinnuelenath (9:52:40 PM): yeah
Tinnuelenath (9:52:46 PM): i don't believe in it
basilutter (9:53:42 PM): hypothetically, what would happen if while you were at vassar, you fell in love with a woman there?
Tinnuelenath (9:53:49 PM): it wouldn't happen
basilutter (9:53:55 PM): you never know
Tinnuelenath (9:53:57 PM): i know
basilutter (9:54:05 PM): well, what if your sister did?
Tinnuelenath (9:54:13 PM): i wouldn't support it
Tinnuelenath (9:54:19 PM): my family wouldn't either
Tinnuelenath (9:54:28 PM): she'd be excommunicated from the church too
basilutter (9:54:39 PM): i forget; are you catholic?
Tinnuelenath (9:54:42 PM): orthodox
basilutter (9:54:47 PM): huh
Tinnuelenath (9:54:52 PM): i'm orthodox
Tinnuelenath (9:54:59 PM): orthodox christian
basilutter (9:55:07 PM): i know; that was a "huh, i see"
Tinnuelenath (9:55:11 PM): oh
basilutter (9:57:04 PM): so, the Bible is essentially the entire basis of the anti-gay movement?
Tinnuelenath (9:57:17 PM): not entire but it is a good part of it
Tinnuelenath (9:57:35 PM): i don't know for a fact.. but i don't think muslims or other religions support it
basilutter (9:58:15 PM): and you don't believe people can simply be good people without regard for religious dogma?
Tinnuelenath (9:58:35 PM): it depends on if they are part of the religion
Tinnuelenath (9:59:15 PM): like i'm not into the whole gay bishop in episcopal church
basilutter (10:00:24 PM): then why shouldn't agnostics be able to have gay marriages?
Tinnuelenath (10:01:07 PM): so you think we should have a law that says only some gays should be married?
Tinnuelenath (10:01:34 PM): i say all or none.. and i definetly chose none
basilutter (10:02:23 PM): okay
basilutter (10:03:02 PM): well, thank you then
basilutter (10:03:46 PM): i guess i was right in that religion is the only defense behind the anti-gay rights platform
Tinnuelenath (10:03:55 PM): depends on who you ask
Tinnuelenath (10:04:11 PM): my personal objection to it isn't religion based
Tinnuelenath (10:04:20 PM): religion plays a part in it
basilutter (10:04:43 PM): your thing is that marriage is a union between man and woman?
Tinnuelenath (10:04:50 PM): yeah
basilutter (10:05:02 PM): and what says this? tradition?
Tinnuelenath (10:05:21 PM): yes
basilutter (10:05:52 PM): okay
basilutter (10:07:09 PM): do you think anything of anti-gay feelings causing people to live in denial and fear of their true sexuallity?
Tinnuelenath (10:07:18 PM): no
basilutter (10:07:31 PM): why not? because they're sinners?
Tinnuelenath (10:08:26 PM): what?
Tinnuelenath (10:08:48 PM): ohh ok
Tinnuelenath (10:08:52 PM): i see what you mean now
basilutter (10:09:04 PM): you think they should be ashamed of who they are?
Tinnuelenath (10:09:53 PM): ok
Tinnuelenath (10:09:56 PM): this is what i think about that
Tinnuelenath (10:11:49 PM): sexual attraction is something that is in us.. like an instinct.. and i don't understand how a trait like homosexuality can be something in humans or any animals for that matter because it isn't an evolutionary advantage
Tinnuelenath (10:11:53 PM): (there's more)
Tinnuelenath (10:12:16 PM): homosexuality has become this huge thing
Tinnuelenath (10:12:24 PM): and i think a lot of it is people feeding off eachother
Tinnuelenath (10:12:38 PM): a lot of teenagers want to "find themselves" or whatever and get into the whole being gay hting
Tinnuelenath (10:12:50 PM): and all of this gay rights stuff is just encouraging it
basilutter (10:14:31 PM): "the whole being gay thing"? you're saying it's some fad?
Tinnuelenath (10:14:39 PM): i think to some extent yes
basilutter (10:15:17 PM): you do realise that it's been around for centuries; whitman, tchycowski, da vinci...all gay
Tinnuelenath (10:15:30 PM): i know it has been around
Tinnuelenath (10:15:34 PM): but it has not been this big
Tinnuelenath (10:15:52 PM): they don't know da vinci was gay they believe so
Tinnuelenath (10:15:56 PM): it depends on who you ask
basilutter (10:16:24 PM): well, back then it was even more important to keep those feelings under wraps
basilutter (10:16:54 PM): now, it's not as big a deal, so people are a bit freer to accept who they are
Tinnuelenath (10:17:04 PM): or to succumb to the fad
basilutter (10:18:36 PM): do you think it's fasionable to endure taunts from your classmates and familly because of who you are?
Tinnuelenath (10:19:13 PM): i don't think that
Tinnuelenath (10:19:27 PM): but being against it and being outright mean about being against it are two different thigns
Tinnuelenath (10:22:20 PM): ok think about this
basilutter (10:22:23 PM): sure
Tinnuelenath (10:22:29 PM): going along the lines of who someone is
Tinnuelenath (10:22:42 PM): say someone has something they like to do
Tinnuelenath (10:22:56 PM): umm
Tinnuelenath (10:23:57 PM): they are addicted to some drug.. and they go home everyday and take this drug because it is such a part of their life.. it has become part of them
Tinnuelenath (10:24:03 PM): this addiction is part of the person
basilutter (10:24:58 PM): *nods*
Tinnuelenath (10:25:14 PM): so this person is a drug addict.. they don't harm anyone else
Tinnuelenath (10:25:20 PM): they just go and do their own thing
Tinnuelenath (10:26:09 PM): do you think they should be allowed to go home and do drugs just because it is a part of who they are?
Tinnuelenath (10:26:17 PM): some things in us we need to supress
Tinnuelenath (10:26:30 PM): and i don't think being gay is natural.. id on't know where it comes from
basilutter (10:26:36 PM): but a. they conciencessly made the choice to take the drug, while sexuallity is not a choice and b. homosexuallity isn't harmful to you, except your soul if you believe that to be true
Tinnuelenath (10:26:46 PM): i do
Tinnuelenath (10:26:55 PM): aren't you christian?
basilutter (10:27:01 PM): barely
Tinnuelenath (10:27:12 PM): you don't believe in the bible?
basilutter (10:27:21 PM): not the entire bible
basilutter (10:27:38 PM): okay, the bible; is there more condemning adultry or homosexuallity?
Tinnuelenath (10:28:06 PM): adultry
Tinnuelenath (10:28:14 PM): but both are there
basilutter (10:28:40 PM): adultry is one of the commandments; why restrict the rights of homosexuals and not adullterers?
Tinnuelenath (10:29:49 PM): i feel both should be restricted
Tinnuelenath (10:30:00 PM): if it were up to me people like that would have legal things to contend with
Tinnuelenath (10:30:53 PM): i'm not saying adulterers should be able to roam free as they will
basilutter (10:31:05 PM): ah
basilutter (10:33:16 PM): you don't think that the bible should be taken with a grain of salt though? i've heard that there is a lot of contradition in it
Tinnuelenath (10:34:20 PM): no i ddon't think it should be taken with a grain of salt
basilutter (10:34:43 PM): *nods*
Tinnuelenath (10:37:07 PM): ok i've gotta go help my mom make christmas cards