Unruly Brigantes and Other Animals

Feb 01, 2012 09:49

I'm reading 'Britannia : The Failed State" by Stuart Laycock.  No, it's not modern politics ( Read more... )

we don't really know, books, writing, history, romans, eagle, brigantes

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endlessrarities February 1 2012, 21:19:16 UTC
Nice theories, but I'm not sure if I'm that bowled over by them. But... That's the joy of writing historical fiction. You're free to use a pick n' mix approach to the sources!

I still think the frontier was moved north from the line of Hadrian's Wall to Antonine's Wall (remember, the Gask Ridge can also be seen as some kind of informal frontier) is more to do with Roman politics than any real or perceived threats from the Roman barbarians.

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bunn February 1 2012, 21:44:02 UTC
Do you mean so that Antoninus could claim a victory (if an absent one) or something else I've missed?

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endlessrarities February 1 2012, 21:48:40 UTC
Potentially, but more importantly, it keeps the troops out of mischief.

The devil makes work for idle hands, and a bored army is always best kept employed in random stuff which keeps them busy a long, long way from Rome...

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bunn February 1 2012, 21:55:00 UTC
Hmm, that's also a useful and interesting thought, thanks.

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endlessrarities February 1 2012, 21:19:47 UTC
And I meant native barbarians, but my brain has just turned to mush!

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carmarthen February 3 2012, 00:42:10 UTC
I knew, but hadn't really processed, that around 140AD was when the new Governer Urbicus moved troops North of Hadrian's wall, took Valentia, and then started building the Antonine Wall at the top of it.

Yep, although Sutcliff calling it Valentia is a bit ahistorical (Valentia wasn't a province until 369 AD).

Anyway, this is all fascinating and rather plausible-sounding in some respects...I will definitely have to hunt down a copy of the book. (Does he have an explanation for why they abandoned the Antonine Wall and went back to just trying to hold Hadrian's Wall relatively quickly? Given the timing, I'm also not so sure it wasn't more make-work and perhaps also a political "accomplishment," too.)

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bunn February 3 2012, 09:26:03 UTC
It's kind of handy to have a word for that area between the two walls, and I don't think it has another name (could be wrong, am not a Scot)? In my head I had decided it was Valentia first because it was the land between the walls, then through a form of nominative determinism, it was made a province by Valentinian... :-D ( ... )

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wellinghall February 4 2012, 09:21:52 UTC
Can I point my archaeologist / historian / museum officer friend jason_finch towards this?

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bunn February 4 2012, 09:32:29 UTC
If you like - if he's a Roman Britain person I doubt it will be news. I guess he might like to say interesting (?rude) things about Laycock and his theories tho!

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wellinghall February 4 2012, 09:35:01 UTC
Done!

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