Thoughts on BE after reading Faith Conquers and Sheva's War

Mar 05, 2010 08:51

So, I picked up all the Iron Empires comics that are out there, with the exception, I believe, of Second Passage ( Read more... )

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buffaloraven March 7 2010, 19:43:34 UTC
As mentioned above, How is not a specific plan, it's a general idea. Not having a How ends up meaning that players tend to not care about each others scenes aside from a passive, TV-esque enjoyment of good roleplaying.

If a character sheet could morph easily as people develop a How, then that would be great. But if it doesn't, the How leaves people out, or makes the game hard to connect to otherwise.

For instance, if we chose 'Economy' as how we were going to beat the vaylen, Misha would be largely written out of the action, and most other characters would suck compared to Gorrey. If we chose, 'Space' as the way we would defeat them, Fox, Misha, and Gorrey would all be at a distinct disadvantage.

The end result of the above is players checking out for long periods of time. Frankly, if the How ends up being something that sidelines Gorrey, I'd probably drop the game because it would become pretty lame pretty quick, or at least retire Gorrey.

But, if we'd chosen a very general How at the beginning of the process, we wouldn't have that issue. If we said, "We want to beat the Vaylen by politics," and someone made a very non-political character, that's on them. But most people would choose something that could tie into politics easily.

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the_viscount March 9 2010, 00:51:15 UTC
I agree that it would suck if we picked a means that only one or a few people are good at. But I think that's a compelling reason for why a "How" as you put it is not only unnecessary, but undesireable. In D&D, I don't stop caring about the traps just because I'm not a rogue. In L5R, I don't zone out on the duels just because my character isn't a duelist.

Which is not to say that your essential point, about a "how" being important, isn't valid. I'm just trying to get to the root of what I'm going to start calling "gaming agoraphobia", and why you and Sean feel it keenly, while I'm not really feeling it.

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buffaloraven March 9 2010, 19:37:59 UTC
I actually find it kinda funny that you're the one arguing against this.

Let's throw some examples for why I find this amusing.

In Werewolf, the implicit 'How' of the game is 'As a pack of Werewolves.' How did it feel when Sasha wasn't a werewolf?

In Paris, the implicit idea of the How was 'as a pack of werewolves and friends' And again, how did it feel when your characters couldn't interact in the same way?

In L5R, the implicit how is 'as magistrates.' Everything done in that game is as magistrates. If one character was off hanging out at the wall, they'd either a) steal the spotlight or b) eventually get dissatisfied with the game because they couldn't interact with it.

Similarly, in D+D, the how is 'as a party of adventurers' so yeah, you like the traps, but if one person was back at the bar, hitting on chicks, the same thing would happen. Either they'd get tired and quit, or they'd steal spotlight time.

My experience with gaming has been that if the how isn't implicit and enforced, the how that gets picked will inevitably sideline a character, intentionally or no.

And fear of gaming outside?

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the_viscount March 9 2010, 23:17:23 UTC
Ah, I see. In burning empires then, the implicit how is "As the most prominent citizens on Proxeria". A nobody paperboy would certainly be shut out of this arrangement, but fortunately all of the characters are prominent citizens of Proxeria.

It's really counterintuitive. The idea that by limiting story options you increase them is a strange one! But, I feel that most players, when faced with an unknown expanse to play in, will sit down and play with their personal toys rather than going out and interacting with the world.

This idea is what I was trying to encapsulate in gaming agoraphobia. Not so much the fear of gaming outside, as an aversion to too much game space.

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buffaloraven March 10 2010, 02:15:13 UTC
See, that's just the thing, that's NOT the implicit how. We could totally have burned up a nobody paperboy and still been in the same game, even if we burned 7 lifepaths on it.

And we AREN'T all prominent citizens, at least not in the same way. Roderick is a pirate/privateer. Hardly in the same league as the Hammer Lord. Misha is part of a massively stomped on minority. Again, not in the same lead as the Lord's Chamberlain/psychic/whatever else.

I think 'as prominent citizens on Proxeria' would be a GREAT How, but it's not established in any way that creates links between characters.

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