Previously on Battlestar Galatica, Felix Gaeta was the most hilariously badass telephone operator in the Fleet. Oh, and he took over the ship with Zarek.
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Is it necessary to call them "Team Snowflake"? In all honesty, I wasn't surprised that the mutiny happened, it had been building for a while actually. Though while I understood where they were coming from I felt they were entirely in the wrong with going about things, particularly since it was more about targeting revenge instead of looking at the larger picture. I understood the feelings many colonials felt in regards to the Cylons, many wouldn't have changed how they felt no matter what happened, however they were being entirely reckless. These group of Cylons went were rebels against their own kind in order to help the humans, they risked their lives, destroyed their own resurrection for a chance to redeem themselves, to find common ground. And in times of war sometimes creating an alliance based on the same endgame is perhaps better than going the route of "us against them" or in means of pure revenge
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I agree that Gaeta just wanted someone to listen to him. I feel like, during the "trial", all he wanted was for Adama to explain himself. I can definitely see why Adama didn't talk--not wanting to give any credence to what was happening, and also being royally pissed--but I wish he had. Because even if Felix hadn't liked the answer, I think he would have backed down and stood once more beside his beloved Commander if only he had an inkling why things were happening the way they were.
(If only because to think otherwise--that Felix actually thought that was justice--ZAREK as judge???--is just too out of character for him.)
These group of Cylons went were rebels against their own kind in order to help the humans, they risked their lives, destroyed their own resurrection for a chance to redeem themselves, to find common ground. And in times of war sometimes creating an alliance based on the same endgame is perhaps better than going the route of "us against them" or in means of pure revenge.
Throughout the show we've seen explorations of humanity within the Cylons, and seeing the difficulties and problematic issues arise within their own race and society. I think without there being any kind of alliance with the Cylons at some point would have been a huge cop-out, imo. You said this and everything else very well, at a time when I was in a state of "OH GOD TOO MUCH NUANCE I CAN'T RIGHT NOW" and closed my internet window. Thank you. *g*
These group of Cylons went were rebels against their own kind in order to help the humans, they risked their lives, destroyed their own resurrection for a chance to redeem themselves, to find common ground.Respectfully, I disagree. They didn't rebel because of New Caprica or to help the humans. They rebelled due to an internal conflict about lobotomizing the raiders and concerns about how far Cavil would go. They sought out Kara, because they needed help getting the basestar to jump, otherwise they were sitting ducks. They admitted they needed to destroy the Hub to get Cavil off their back and planned all along to take the pilots hostage (Roslin was a bonus). Even the drives were for citizenship and a representative on the Quorum, not because they were remorseful or wanted to help humans, but because they wanted Galactica to protect them
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Respectfully, I disagree. They didn't rebel because of New Caprica or to help the humans. They rebelled due to an internal conflict about lobotomizing the raiders and concerns about how far Cavil would go. They sought out Kara, because they needed help getting the basestar to jump, otherwise they were sitting ducks. They admitted they needed to destroy the Hub to get Cavil off their back and planned all along to take the pilots hostage (Roslin was a bonus). Even the drives were for citizenship and a representative on the Quorum, not because they were remorseful or wanted to help humans, but because they wanted Galactica to protect them.
This is equally true of the humans, who only helped the Cylons in order to get rid of the Hub, get to Earth, and gain an ally against Cavil. I don't think either side had a real solid alliance -- nor should they have, considering -- but gamesmanship on both sides isn't a non-"selfish" reason for the mutineers to actually break the alliance they did have.
Oh, I agree the humans who favored the alliance did so for selfish reasons as well. My response was in relation to the comment about the rebel Cylons doing so to help humans and for redemption. I think that's inaccurate
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My response was in relation to the comment about the rebel Cylons doing so to help humans and for redemption. I think that's inaccurate.
Let me put it this way: I think the rebel Cylons joined the alliance to help humans exactly as much as I think the humans kept Baltar, the mutineers, and the Cylons around so they could be "worthy of survival". My point wasn't just that the humans were also selfish, it's that both sides wrote their actions into a selfless narrative as often as possible.
I don't doubt that the rebel Cylons believed they were doing this-and-that to help the humans, especially by the time they reached Magical Jump Earth, just as I'm sure Adama believed that his unbelievably stupid quest to find Roslin was The Only Way The Fleet Could Go On(tm). On the one hand, these beliefs are "inaccurate"... but on the other, they are real motivations which really did exist, even if they were PASTEDE ON YEY.
Cylons becoming citizens with right to representation on the Quorum of the civilization they all but destroyed in
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My point wasn't just that the humans were also selfish, it's that both sides wrote their actions into a selfless narrative as often as possible.
I agree with that, we all lie to ourselves. I think the extent to which the writers spotlighted those types of self-deceptions was one of the bits of fantastic story writing in BSG.
Also, I agree that objectively the Cylon-Human Alliance was necessary to both sides. One of the very best managers I've every had the pleasure of working for and learning from told me, "You lead people by their hearts first, then their heads. It doesn't matter how logical and right your decision is if you don't address the emotions generating opposition then the people you are trying to convince will never hear the logic and the situation will blow up in your face." Adama and Roslin ignored that truth and it blew up in their faces
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Is it necessary to call them "Team Snowflake"? In all honesty, I wasn't surprised that the mutiny happened, it had been building for a while actually. Though while I understood where they were coming from I felt they were entirely in the wrong with going about things, particularly since it was more about targeting revenge instead of looking at the larger picture. I understood the feelings many colonials felt in regards to the Cylons, many wouldn't have changed how they felt no matter what happened, however they were being entirely reckless. These group of Cylons went were rebels against their own kind in order to help the humans, they risked their lives, destroyed their own resurrection for a chance to redeem themselves, to find common ground. And in times of war sometimes creating an alliance based on the same endgame is perhaps better than going the route of "us against them" or in means of pure revenge ( ... )
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(If only because to think otherwise--that Felix actually thought that was justice--ZAREK as judge???--is just too out of character for him.)
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Throughout the show we've seen explorations of humanity within the Cylons, and seeing the difficulties and problematic issues arise within their own race and society. I think without there being any kind of alliance with the Cylons at some point would have been a huge cop-out, imo.
You said this and everything else very well, at a time when I was in a state of "OH GOD TOO MUCH NUANCE I CAN'T RIGHT NOW" and closed my internet window. Thank you. *g*
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This is equally true of the humans, who only helped the Cylons in order to get rid of the Hub, get to Earth, and gain an ally against Cavil. I don't think either side had a real solid alliance -- nor should they have, considering -- but gamesmanship on both sides isn't a non-"selfish" reason for the mutineers to actually break the alliance they did have.
Reply
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Let me put it this way: I think the rebel Cylons joined the alliance to help humans exactly as much as I think the humans kept Baltar, the mutineers, and the Cylons around so they could be "worthy of survival". My point wasn't just that the humans were also selfish, it's that both sides wrote their actions into a selfless narrative as often as possible.
I don't doubt that the rebel Cylons believed they were doing this-and-that to help the humans, especially by the time they reached Magical Jump Earth, just as I'm sure Adama believed that his unbelievably stupid quest to find Roslin was The Only Way The Fleet Could Go On(tm). On the one hand, these beliefs are "inaccurate"... but on the other, they are real motivations which really did exist, even if they were PASTEDE ON YEY.
Cylons becoming citizens with right to representation on the Quorum of the civilization they all but destroyed in ( ... )
Reply
I agree with that, we all lie to ourselves. I think the extent to which the writers spotlighted those types of self-deceptions was one of the bits of fantastic story writing in BSG.
Also, I agree that objectively the Cylon-Human Alliance was necessary to both sides. One of the very best managers I've every had the pleasure of working for and learning from told me, "You lead people by their hearts first, then their heads. It doesn't matter how logical and right your decision is if you don't address the emotions generating opposition then the people you are trying to convince will never hear the logic and the situation will blow up in your face." Adama and Roslin ignored that truth and it blew up in their faces ( ... )
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