Here Ya Go
[14:06:04] BitVyper: No loud voice
[14:06:10] BitVyper: just makes them bark more in the long run
[14:06:41] BitVyper: pulling them around usually doesn't help a whole lot with barking
[14:07:29] BitVyper: anything where you have to physically reposition the dog usually isn't teaching them anything
[14:08:03] BitVyper: has she tried shooting them in the face with a squirt bottle to distract them?
[14:08:45] kenshi67357: No. Someone else suggested it.
[14:08:59] BitVyper: make sure it's something with a stream
[14:09:10] BitVyper: once they're distracted, make them work until whatever is making them bark goes away
[14:09:20] BitVyper: reduce the number of stimuli that make them bark
[14:09:34] BitVyper: every time they bark incessantly at something, it just reinforces the behaviour
[14:09:45] BitVyper: might try rewarding them for the barking
[14:09:56] kenshi67357: Wha?
[14:09:57] BitVyper: tells'em they've done enough
[14:10:15] BitVyper: the idea is to eventually get them to doing one bark
[14:10:29] BitVyper: because that's all they need
[14:10:42] BitVyper: just a sec, I've got a good book on the subject. Let me see what else I can pull up
[14:11:11] BitVyper: the more she works with them, the easier time she'll have getting them to pay attention
[14:11:19] BitVyper: she needs to work on clarity and volume in her voice for commands
[14:11:39] BitVyper: she also needs to understand that when they're that distracted, they don't even hear you
[14:11:50] BitVyper: you need to start small, with low distractions
[14:12:01] BitVyper: work up to getting them to pay attention under any circumstances
[14:12:42] BitVyper: don't be tempted to muzzle them
[14:12:49] BitVyper: muzzles are 20 minutes max
[14:12:53] BitVyper: and don't teach anything
[14:13:19] BitVyper: are they being excersized well?
[14:13:39] BitVyper: they're herders, so if they don't have something to do, they find other outlets
[14:14:10] BitVyper: they should be getting at least an hour of good excersize every day
[14:14:42] BitVyper: is it only when people are home, or does it happen other times?
[14:15:05] BitVyper: if he's barking at stuff outside, a big part of it is just obscuring his view
[14:15:05] kenshi67357: No idea.
[14:15:25] BitVyper: unless you're willing to supervise them 24/7 to correct the behaviour
[14:15:48] BitVyper: for distraction, I also know one girl who use to throw a towel by her dog
[14:15:50] BitVyper: not at
[14:16:37] BitVyper: try to make people coming inside as uninteresting as possible
[14:16:54] BitVyper: lots of people make a big production out of it when they come home every day
[14:17:13] BitVyper: that just makes them see the door as an energetic situation
[14:17:29] BitVyper: open the door, and if they make a fuss or barrel toward you, close it
[14:17:43] BitVyper: try to go in again
[14:17:49] BitVyper: repeat until they calm down
[14:18:01] BitVyper: might take 30 tries the first time
[14:18:14] BitVyper: when you do get in, don't even look at them
[14:18:30] BitVyper: take your coat and shoes off, go past the entrance area, then greet them calmly
[14:18:54] BitVyper: she has to be consistent with them though
[14:19:00] BitVyper: if she's going to start trying something
[14:19:05] BitVyper: she has to do it every single time
[14:19:08] BitVyper: or it won't work
[14:19:23] BitVyper: and she has to repeat it as long as it's necessary
[14:19:42] kenshi67357: I think she understands that much. Thinks she's a good trainer. I'm not sure how good, but I think she knows the basics.
[14:20:04] BitVyper: she could try kenneling them for a time out as soon as they start barking, but just remember that time outs are never more than about twenty to thirty seconds
[14:20:22] BitVyper: my general measurement device for a time out is "when they calm down, they get to try again
[14:20:23] BitVyper: "
[14:20:59] BitVyper: what kind of noise maker is she using?
[14:21:09] kenshi67357: No idea.
[14:21:23] kenshi67357: She asked for advice on her LJ. Haven't seen her on AIM in ages.
[14:21:31] BitVyper: was it getting them distracted, or not? If it's just that it worked, but she didn't see results, she needs to keep at it
[14:21:47] BitVyper: a lot of times, dogs will actually try HARDER when you first start trying to eliminate a behaviour
[14:22:45] BitVyper: if plain water in a spray bottle doesn't work, use diluted bitter apple
[14:22:53] BitVyper: it's a taste deterrant
[14:23:02] kenshi67357: Interesting.
[14:23:11] BitVyper: try not to use the other brands though. Bitter apple isn't so bad if it gets in the eyes
[14:23:18] BitVyper: so long as it's diluted
[14:23:24] BitVyper: you know mace doesn't work on dogs?
[14:23:30] kenshi67357: No?
[14:23:59] BitVyper: I just found that out the other day
[14:24:48] kenshi67357: I think the dog deterrants on the security website I like are mostly sound-based.
[14:25:15] BitVyper: pain ones don't usually last
[14:25:36] BitVyper: getting rid of a barking problem is just about distracting them and keeping them distracted
[14:25:48] BitVyper: do that every single time, and they'll forget why they bark in the first place
[14:25:59] BitVyper: it'll just start being normal to them to bark once or twice
[14:26:19] BitVyper: two dogs can be a bit of an issue, because they get each other going. It's hard to handle with just one person
[14:26:38] BitVyper: citronella collars aren't too bad, but a lot of times, the dog just learns to judge when it's empty
[14:26:53] kenshi67357: What are those?
[14:27:05] BitVyper: they spray citronella when the dog bark
[14:27:05] BitVyper: s
[14:27:16] BitVyper: it's basically like using the squirt bottle
[14:27:30] BitVyper: but because it's on their neck, they can tell when it's not going to work anymore
[14:27:33] kenshi67357: Huh.
[14:27:59] BitVyper: so if you use them, you have to keep them full
[14:28:11] BitVyper: until the habit is totally broken
[14:28:39] BitVyper: try to get them playing with a toy or something when they start
[14:28:44] BitVyper: that's a good way of redirecting them
[14:28:59] BitVyper: as far as noise making goes
[14:29:05] BitVyper: rather than using an electronic device
[14:29:17] BitVyper: I've always just filled an empty pop can with pennies
[14:29:19] BitVyper: and shook it hard
[14:29:52] BitVyper: regardless of what one does though, berating them or raising your voice usually isn't a good idea
[14:30:17] BitVyper: her dad's probably been doing that for a long while, and look at the lack of results
[14:30:18] BitVyper: it tends to just make them think they aren't barking enough
[14:30:25] BitVyper: which is hilarious
[14:30:50] BitVyper: but yeah, reduce the amount of stimuli, distract, and redirect
[14:31:07] BitVyper: and remember, they're bred to be running like, forty miles in a day
[14:31:11] kenshi67357: That should be enough to help her out. I'll copy/paste the conversation to this point in my LJ and link her to it.
[14:31:27] BitVyper: if they're not getting proper excersize, they'll act out
[14:06:10] BitVyper: just makes them bark more in the long run
[14:06:41] BitVyper: pulling them around usually doesn't help a whole lot with barking
[14:07:29] BitVyper: anything where you have to physically reposition the dog usually isn't teaching them anything
[14:08:03] BitVyper: has she tried shooting them in the face with a squirt bottle to distract them?
[14:08:45] kenshi67357: No. Someone else suggested it.
[14:08:59] BitVyper: make sure it's something with a stream
[14:09:10] BitVyper: once they're distracted, make them work until whatever is making them bark goes away
[14:09:20] BitVyper: reduce the number of stimuli that make them bark
[14:09:34] BitVyper: every time they bark incessantly at something, it just reinforces the behaviour
[14:09:45] BitVyper: might try rewarding them for the barking
[14:09:56] kenshi67357: Wha?
[14:09:57] BitVyper: tells'em they've done enough
[14:10:15] BitVyper: the idea is to eventually get them to doing one bark
[14:10:29] BitVyper: because that's all they need
[14:10:42] BitVyper: just a sec, I've got a good book on the subject. Let me see what else I can pull up
[14:11:11] BitVyper: the more she works with them, the easier time she'll have getting them to pay attention
[14:11:19] BitVyper: she needs to work on clarity and volume in her voice for commands
[14:11:39] BitVyper: she also needs to understand that when they're that distracted, they don't even hear you
[14:11:50] BitVyper: you need to start small, with low distractions
[14:12:01] BitVyper: work up to getting them to pay attention under any circumstances
[14:12:42] BitVyper: don't be tempted to muzzle them
[14:12:49] BitVyper: muzzles are 20 minutes max
[14:12:53] BitVyper: and don't teach anything
[14:13:19] BitVyper: are they being excersized well?
[14:13:39] BitVyper: they're herders, so if they don't have something to do, they find other outlets
[14:14:10] BitVyper: they should be getting at least an hour of good excersize every day
[14:14:42] BitVyper: is it only when people are home, or does it happen other times?
[14:15:05] BitVyper: if he's barking at stuff outside, a big part of it is just obscuring his view
[14:15:05] kenshi67357: No idea.
[14:15:25] BitVyper: unless you're willing to supervise them 24/7 to correct the behaviour
[14:15:48] BitVyper: for distraction, I also know one girl who use to throw a towel by her dog
[14:15:50] BitVyper: not at
[14:16:37] BitVyper: try to make people coming inside as uninteresting as possible
[14:16:54] BitVyper: lots of people make a big production out of it when they come home every day
[14:17:13] BitVyper: that just makes them see the door as an energetic situation
[14:17:29] BitVyper: open the door, and if they make a fuss or barrel toward you, close it
[14:17:43] BitVyper: try to go in again
[14:17:49] BitVyper: repeat until they calm down
[14:18:01] BitVyper: might take 30 tries the first time
[14:18:14] BitVyper: when you do get in, don't even look at them
[14:18:30] BitVyper: take your coat and shoes off, go past the entrance area, then greet them calmly
[14:18:54] BitVyper: she has to be consistent with them though
[14:19:00] BitVyper: if she's going to start trying something
[14:19:05] BitVyper: she has to do it every single time
[14:19:08] BitVyper: or it won't work
[14:19:23] BitVyper: and she has to repeat it as long as it's necessary
[14:19:42] kenshi67357: I think she understands that much. Thinks she's a good trainer. I'm not sure how good, but I think she knows the basics.
[14:20:04] BitVyper: she could try kenneling them for a time out as soon as they start barking, but just remember that time outs are never more than about twenty to thirty seconds
[14:20:22] BitVyper: my general measurement device for a time out is "when they calm down, they get to try again
[14:20:23] BitVyper: "
[14:20:59] BitVyper: what kind of noise maker is she using?
[14:21:09] kenshi67357: No idea.
[14:21:23] kenshi67357: She asked for advice on her LJ. Haven't seen her on AIM in ages.
[14:21:31] BitVyper: was it getting them distracted, or not? If it's just that it worked, but she didn't see results, she needs to keep at it
[14:21:47] BitVyper: a lot of times, dogs will actually try HARDER when you first start trying to eliminate a behaviour
[14:22:45] BitVyper: if plain water in a spray bottle doesn't work, use diluted bitter apple
[14:22:53] BitVyper: it's a taste deterrant
[14:23:02] kenshi67357: Interesting.
[14:23:11] BitVyper: try not to use the other brands though. Bitter apple isn't so bad if it gets in the eyes
[14:23:18] BitVyper: so long as it's diluted
[14:23:24] BitVyper: you know mace doesn't work on dogs?
[14:23:30] kenshi67357: No?
[14:23:59] BitVyper: I just found that out the other day
[14:24:48] kenshi67357: I think the dog deterrants on the security website I like are mostly sound-based.
[14:25:15] BitVyper: pain ones don't usually last
[14:25:36] BitVyper: getting rid of a barking problem is just about distracting them and keeping them distracted
[14:25:48] BitVyper: do that every single time, and they'll forget why they bark in the first place
[14:25:59] BitVyper: it'll just start being normal to them to bark once or twice
[14:26:19] BitVyper: two dogs can be a bit of an issue, because they get each other going. It's hard to handle with just one person
[14:26:38] BitVyper: citronella collars aren't too bad, but a lot of times, the dog just learns to judge when it's empty
[14:26:53] kenshi67357: What are those?
[14:27:05] BitVyper: they spray citronella when the dog bark
[14:27:05] BitVyper: s
[14:27:16] BitVyper: it's basically like using the squirt bottle
[14:27:30] BitVyper: but because it's on their neck, they can tell when it's not going to work anymore
[14:27:33] kenshi67357: Huh.
[14:27:59] BitVyper: so if you use them, you have to keep them full
[14:28:11] BitVyper: until the habit is totally broken
[14:28:39] BitVyper: try to get them playing with a toy or something when they start
[14:28:44] BitVyper: that's a good way of redirecting them
[14:28:59] BitVyper: as far as noise making goes
[14:29:05] BitVyper: rather than using an electronic device
[14:29:17] BitVyper: I've always just filled an empty pop can with pennies
[14:29:19] BitVyper: and shook it hard
[14:29:52] BitVyper: regardless of what one does though, berating them or raising your voice usually isn't a good idea
[14:30:17] BitVyper: her dad's probably been doing that for a long while, and look at the lack of results
[14:30:18] BitVyper: it tends to just make them think they aren't barking enough
[14:30:25] BitVyper: which is hilarious
[14:30:50] BitVyper: but yeah, reduce the amount of stimuli, distract, and redirect
[14:31:07] BitVyper: and remember, they're bred to be running like, forty miles in a day
[14:31:11] kenshi67357: That should be enough to help her out. I'll copy/paste the conversation to this point in my LJ and link her to it.
[14:31:27] BitVyper: if they're not getting proper excersize, they'll act out