Black communities in Britain, 1600s

Jul 21, 2012 07:46

This may give some insight into why the "race problem" is rather different in our two countries

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18903391

us vs. uk, demographics

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unfortunatetypo July 23 2012, 21:33:38 UTC
The "race problem" is the same in both countries. It is caused by people being racist.

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janewilliams20 July 23 2012, 21:51:30 UTC
Indeed. But it manifests rather differently, and this may give some partial explanation why.

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sollersuk July 24 2012, 05:39:27 UTC
I'm not sure that it is. In England it is an extreme manifestation of distrust of foreigners and incomers, and has happened to group after group throughout history. It's worth noting that in my childhood the notices in houses with rooms to let that said "No coloureds" also usually said "No Irish"; until the Windrush era, they only said "No Irish".

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janewilliams20 July 24 2012, 05:45:52 UTC
Both of which are being racist, though, surely? The difference is that we're equal-opportunity racists :) Has it ever said "No Americans"?

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sollersuk July 24 2012, 07:14:29 UTC
There aren't big enough groups of American immigrants for it to be an issue, though the only reason many Americans were seen as acceptable during WWII was that they had money, nylons and chocolate*. And "racist" is a difficult word in this context; is the dividing line to be nationality or cultural differences rather than what is usually meant by "race"? "Xenophobic" is the word I would prefer.

*There is a story which may be apocryphal, but even if it is, its wide currency is very suggestive. During WWII an American airbase was constructed near an English village. The servicemen building it, all Black, went to the local pub and were made welcome, partly on account of their good manners. When the airmen arrived, their CO went to the landlord and explained that Black and white servicemen could not be expected to mingle in the pub. The landlord nodded in acquiescence - and banned the white airmen.

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janewilliams20 July 24 2012, 07:54:42 UTC
Wasn't "over-sexed, over-paid and over here" a phrase used at one point? All a bit before my time, so I'm not sure of context.

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sollersuk July 24 2012, 15:37:53 UTC
Oh, yes, indeed, only a short time before my time. If it hadn't been for the nylons, chocolates etc there would have been a great deal of hostility, and not just from the men.

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tisiphone July 29 2012, 10:11:29 UTC
There's a reprint of a manual for American servicemen in England that you can sometimes find floating around museum gift shops and things that gives that impression. For example, it reminds them to be mindful that they're paid much more than their British counterparts and suggests not being ostentatious about the fact. (Also, my grandfather's stories confirm the "over-sexed, overpaid and over here" impression - he was stationed at Scapa Flow for some time, and had some cringingly awful stories to tell. Which he thought were hilarious, of course.)

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