O frabjous day: EA Games clarifies its position on paysites
Originally posted at the Sims File Vault forum, an EA rep finally clarifies EA's feelings about the legality of paysites. Previously their support was more covert and veiled: any lots or files posted to EA's Sims 2 Exchange (where players share custom content, stories, Sims characters and more) would include non-EA meshes left on the lot. This meant that if a paysite's item was left on a lot, or a Sim was wearing a custom hair or clothing item, those files would not be removed from the uploaded files. (On the downside, hacks and mods would also be included, making downloading from the Exchange a risky proposition at the best of times.) EA had notices that all content uploaded legally belonged to them as fair warning to creators and players using the Exchange.
The letters:
Taken from SimsFileVault, because it needs a login to their forum. A huge thanks to Pas, who posted this, and thanks to Noukie Sims 2, who reposted it. (All I did was clean up some typos and grammar (those I caught at first glance); you can see the originals at the above Noukie link.)
Pas:
"Many years ago now one of our members contacted Maxis and asked them about custom content and paying for it, and if it was allowed or not. I contacted them myself, after I couldn't find that letter, to get some up to date information from them, and below are the letters that I sent plus the responses:"
Customer 05/17/2007 12:42 PM
Hello!
I would like some additional information on this subject:
You may include materials created with the Tools & Materials on your personal noncommercial website for the noncommercial benefit of the fan community for EA's products, providing this is beneficial to the product(s) in EA's judgement, and provided that if you do so, you must also post the following notice on your site on the same web page(s) where those materials are located: "This site is not endorsed by or affiliated with Electronic Arts, or it's licensors. Trademarks are the property of their respective owners. Game content and materials copyright Electronic Arts Inc. and its licensors. All Rights Reserved. You will not represent that your site is endorsed or approved by or affiliated with EA or our licensors or that any other content on your site is endorsed or approved by or affiliated with EA or our licensors.
(this is found in the bodyshow TOS, which a copy of this is found HERE)
The way I have understood it is that you couldn’t open a complete paysite that charges monthly subscriptions (for sometimes around $9.95 a month).
You may or may not know but there has been a feud amongst the Sims community for many years now, and I would like an unbiased response.
When it comes down to it, is it allowed to have a personal website that is purely for commercial purposes?
I do not have a website, nor do I charge for anything that I have created for the game so I just wanted you to clarify the exact meaning please
Many Thanks
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Response (GM Fenris) 05/18/2007 11:46 AM
Hello xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
Thank you for contacting Electronic Arts.
To answer your question:
Yes, running a paysite featuring content for the Sims 2 is considered to be a violation of both the Electronic Arts Terms of Service and copyright law.
This includes both content that is sold directly and content that is offered as part of a subscription service.
Additionally, the intent behind providing these tools to the Sims 2 community was to promote the sharing of content, not commercial activity.
If you know of a site that is offering Sims 2 content as a pay-service, we would ask that you please let us know so that we can take the appropriate steps to address the situation.
If you have any further questions, please let us know.
Take care,
EA Rep Fenris
Player Relations
Electronic Arts
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Customer 05/18/2007 03:08 PM Hello,
Thank you for responding so quickly to me.
You said: If you know of a site that is offering Sims 2 content as a pay-service, we would ask that you please let us know so that we can take the appropriate steps to address the situation.
I have actually heard this before, when someone else emailed you about the exact same problem a few years ago, but nothing got done when she replied with the pay site list.
Pay sites within the Sims community has gone far and wide, with prices raising each time they produce a pay set. I myself have spent around a good £200-£350 within the 4 years since Sims 1 came out. I do like these sets that I'm paying for and they are wonderfully done, so really I am a glutton for punishment.
But you said: promote the sharing of content, my response would be that if you intended this to happen in the first place then you should have written something somewhere for people to read.
I'm sorry if I'm now sounding a bit negative, but people are getting banned left, right and center for sharing (custom) content, even on the exchange. They go to the lengths of getting any of your personal information they can about you, and will have your Paypal account stopped, threaten to contact your ISP company to have your service cut off by claiming copyright laws (which as I understood it as: if you put anything into a .package file, they do not hold any copyright as a creator, as EA's rights override it!) [and worse].
"Lawyer letters" are getting sent to the site that I moderate at, as well as to the hosting company, all screaming "copyright [infringement!]" and as quick as a flash we're gone and have to move to the next hosting [service] because of it; all because we are doing what the TOS [Terms of Service] have stated [is allowed], sharing the custom content of the game [for free].
Peggy [from Peggy Sims 2] has stated that she is doing this as a job to live off it, charges $9.95 a month. The Sims Resources have many hundreds of files of free content, BUT to be able to use the CC you will have to get a subscription to be able to buy the meshes [and the vast majority of the content is actually pay; they are also luring formerly free content creators to their site to become pay creators]. [There are many] blog entries from Sims [paysite] creators moaning that they can't get a job but will happily put a site up for the money. It's all getting to be beyond a joke. I feel it hasn't been stated clearly enough (for people that do create to understand) that sharing of custom content is not illegal and that you [EA] even encourage it!
You replied with: If you know of a site that is offering Sims 2 content as a pay-service...
Would [you like me to send a list of] over 100 paysites that I know [...] of, or would you need more proof of these transactions of money?
Sorry for ranting but I've seen a lot happen in the last 4 years of being a member of the community [and so] when I started venting, I couldn't stop.
Thanks for taking the time to read this and please let me know what you would like, a list or proof.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Response (GM Fenris) 05/18/2007 03:47 PM
Hello again xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
I can certainly understand your frustration over this issue, as it probably is not always clear whether EA is interested in pursuing these sorts of cases.
However, I can assure you that, legally, Electronic Arts owns the rights to all material created from our engine, and that the sharing of said material for free on community sites is completely legal, even if it is material that some players are attempting to sell.
If you would like to submit a list of these pay sites, I will be more than happy to pass it on to the EA Legal team to review.
Take care,
EA Rep Fenris
Player Relations
Electronic Arts
These letters, posted publicly, serve to finally clarify, in no uncertain terms, EA's stand on the matter. Previously, they had avoided doing more than posting their EULA, which already made it clear what their rules were regarding use of the Sims games and content.
EA (finally) is saying (clearly) that paysites are illegal and violating EA's copyright.
Now there is a petition circulating in support of EA's position and against paysites. Whereas I generally have little faith in the efficacy of online petitions, it can't hurt to sign it, and you can choose to be listed anonymously. Also, the hosting site asks for a donation, but you can choose not to contribute if you like; just use your back button.
The petition:
EA Games should take action against paysites.
Very recently, after years of discussion and uncertainty, an EA official has confirmed that Sims 2 Paysites, sites who sell Sims 2 content made with EA tools, are against their EULA.
Quote:
"Thank you for contacting Electronic Arts.
To answer your question: Yes, running a paysite featuring content for the Sims 2 is considered to be a violation of both the Electronic Arts Terms of Service and copyright law. This includes both content that is sold directly and content that is offered as part of a subscription service. Additionally, the intent behind providing these tools to the Sims 2 community was to promote the sharing of content, not commercial activity."
EA now recognizes paysites as a problem, but we want them to actually take action against them.
Paysites have broken so many rules, bullied so many people, profited off of other people's hard work, even broken laws. They were always protected, and they always covered themselves by saying 'EA is okay with it, so we can do what we want'.
Well, EA is NOT okay with it. And it's time for them to do something about it.
If you agree that EA should take action against (and/or disallow the existence of) paysites, please sign this petition. Maybe we can make a difference if EA see what their community (and part of their livelihood) thinks.
Sign it here.
So it goes.
Never a dull day in Sims 2 "fandom".
Funny addenda from Ms. Sherrie, who owns another EA Games title:
"I noticed that EA has taken an interesting stance on one of their other games, "command and conquer tiberium wars".
they have custom content in the form of maps and they have only just released a programme to make the maps with. last night while looking for some maps, my husband noticed a few paysites have already set up shop selling these maps, however we were able to get some free maps off a website.
HERES THE CRACKER!! >>> I installed one of these maps and played online with my husband (who hadn't installed it), the game automatically detected he didn't have it, and then it auto file shared it!
hahaha, the game is designed to auto transfer any custom content between players, this is going to be a hard knock for the wanna be paysites in that community, EA seem to be taking a stance of stopping the paysite problem before it starts, now all they need to do is stand by their guns and sort out this community.
ETA: at least we will never see thetiberiumwarsresource.com!"
Awesome!
Get booty!
Paysites must be destroyed. ARR!
The letters:
Taken from SimsFileVault, because it needs a login to their forum. A huge thanks to Pas, who posted this, and thanks to Noukie Sims 2, who reposted it. (All I did was clean up some typos and grammar (those I caught at first glance); you can see the originals at the above Noukie link.)
Pas:
"Many years ago now one of our members contacted Maxis and asked them about custom content and paying for it, and if it was allowed or not. I contacted them myself, after I couldn't find that letter, to get some up to date information from them, and below are the letters that I sent plus the responses:"
Customer 05/17/2007 12:42 PM
Hello!
I would like some additional information on this subject:
You may include materials created with the Tools & Materials on your personal noncommercial website for the noncommercial benefit of the fan community for EA's products, providing this is beneficial to the product(s) in EA's judgement, and provided that if you do so, you must also post the following notice on your site on the same web page(s) where those materials are located: "This site is not endorsed by or affiliated with Electronic Arts, or it's licensors. Trademarks are the property of their respective owners. Game content and materials copyright Electronic Arts Inc. and its licensors. All Rights Reserved. You will not represent that your site is endorsed or approved by or affiliated with EA or our licensors or that any other content on your site is endorsed or approved by or affiliated with EA or our licensors.
(this is found in the bodyshow TOS, which a copy of this is found HERE)
The way I have understood it is that you couldn’t open a complete paysite that charges monthly subscriptions (for sometimes around $9.95 a month).
You may or may not know but there has been a feud amongst the Sims community for many years now, and I would like an unbiased response.
When it comes down to it, is it allowed to have a personal website that is purely for commercial purposes?
I do not have a website, nor do I charge for anything that I have created for the game so I just wanted you to clarify the exact meaning please
Many Thanks
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Response (GM Fenris) 05/18/2007 11:46 AM
Hello xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
Thank you for contacting Electronic Arts.
To answer your question:
Yes, running a paysite featuring content for the Sims 2 is considered to be a violation of both the Electronic Arts Terms of Service and copyright law.
This includes both content that is sold directly and content that is offered as part of a subscription service.
Additionally, the intent behind providing these tools to the Sims 2 community was to promote the sharing of content, not commercial activity.
If you know of a site that is offering Sims 2 content as a pay-service, we would ask that you please let us know so that we can take the appropriate steps to address the situation.
If you have any further questions, please let us know.
Take care,
EA Rep Fenris
Player Relations
Electronic Arts
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Customer 05/18/2007 03:08 PM Hello,
Thank you for responding so quickly to me.
You said: If you know of a site that is offering Sims 2 content as a pay-service, we would ask that you please let us know so that we can take the appropriate steps to address the situation.
I have actually heard this before, when someone else emailed you about the exact same problem a few years ago, but nothing got done when she replied with the pay site list.
Pay sites within the Sims community has gone far and wide, with prices raising each time they produce a pay set. I myself have spent around a good £200-£350 within the 4 years since Sims 1 came out. I do like these sets that I'm paying for and they are wonderfully done, so really I am a glutton for punishment.
But you said: promote the sharing of content, my response would be that if you intended this to happen in the first place then you should have written something somewhere for people to read.
I'm sorry if I'm now sounding a bit negative, but people are getting banned left, right and center for sharing (custom) content, even on the exchange. They go to the lengths of getting any of your personal information they can about you, and will have your Paypal account stopped, threaten to contact your ISP company to have your service cut off by claiming copyright laws (which as I understood it as: if you put anything into a .package file, they do not hold any copyright as a creator, as EA's rights override it!) [and worse].
"Lawyer letters" are getting sent to the site that I moderate at, as well as to the hosting company, all screaming "copyright [infringement!]" and as quick as a flash we're gone and have to move to the next hosting [service] because of it; all because we are doing what the TOS [Terms of Service] have stated [is allowed], sharing the custom content of the game [for free].
Peggy [from Peggy Sims 2] has stated that she is doing this as a job to live off it, charges $9.95 a month. The Sims Resources have many hundreds of files of free content, BUT to be able to use the CC you will have to get a subscription to be able to buy the meshes [and the vast majority of the content is actually pay; they are also luring formerly free content creators to their site to become pay creators]. [There are many] blog entries from Sims [paysite] creators moaning that they can't get a job but will happily put a site up for the money. It's all getting to be beyond a joke. I feel it hasn't been stated clearly enough (for people that do create to understand) that sharing of custom content is not illegal and that you [EA] even encourage it!
You replied with: If you know of a site that is offering Sims 2 content as a pay-service...
Would [you like me to send a list of] over 100 paysites that I know [...] of, or would you need more proof of these transactions of money?
Sorry for ranting but I've seen a lot happen in the last 4 years of being a member of the community [and so] when I started venting, I couldn't stop.
Thanks for taking the time to read this and please let me know what you would like, a list or proof.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Response (GM Fenris) 05/18/2007 03:47 PM
Hello again xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
I can certainly understand your frustration over this issue, as it probably is not always clear whether EA is interested in pursuing these sorts of cases.
However, I can assure you that, legally, Electronic Arts owns the rights to all material created from our engine, and that the sharing of said material for free on community sites is completely legal, even if it is material that some players are attempting to sell.
If you would like to submit a list of these pay sites, I will be more than happy to pass it on to the EA Legal team to review.
Take care,
EA Rep Fenris
Player Relations
Electronic Arts
These letters, posted publicly, serve to finally clarify, in no uncertain terms, EA's stand on the matter. Previously, they had avoided doing more than posting their EULA, which already made it clear what their rules were regarding use of the Sims games and content.
EA (finally) is saying (clearly) that paysites are illegal and violating EA's copyright.
Now there is a petition circulating in support of EA's position and against paysites. Whereas I generally have little faith in the efficacy of online petitions, it can't hurt to sign it, and you can choose to be listed anonymously. Also, the hosting site asks for a donation, but you can choose not to contribute if you like; just use your back button.
The petition:
EA Games should take action against paysites.
Very recently, after years of discussion and uncertainty, an EA official has confirmed that Sims 2 Paysites, sites who sell Sims 2 content made with EA tools, are against their EULA.
Quote:
"Thank you for contacting Electronic Arts.
To answer your question: Yes, running a paysite featuring content for the Sims 2 is considered to be a violation of both the Electronic Arts Terms of Service and copyright law. This includes both content that is sold directly and content that is offered as part of a subscription service. Additionally, the intent behind providing these tools to the Sims 2 community was to promote the sharing of content, not commercial activity."
EA now recognizes paysites as a problem, but we want them to actually take action against them.
Paysites have broken so many rules, bullied so many people, profited off of other people's hard work, even broken laws. They were always protected, and they always covered themselves by saying 'EA is okay with it, so we can do what we want'.
Well, EA is NOT okay with it. And it's time for them to do something about it.
If you agree that EA should take action against (and/or disallow the existence of) paysites, please sign this petition. Maybe we can make a difference if EA see what their community (and part of their livelihood) thinks.
Sign it here.
So it goes.
Never a dull day in Sims 2 "fandom".
Funny addenda from Ms. Sherrie, who owns another EA Games title:
"I noticed that EA has taken an interesting stance on one of their other games, "command and conquer tiberium wars".
they have custom content in the form of maps and they have only just released a programme to make the maps with. last night while looking for some maps, my husband noticed a few paysites have already set up shop selling these maps, however we were able to get some free maps off a website.
HERES THE CRACKER!! >>> I installed one of these maps and played online with my husband (who hadn't installed it), the game automatically detected he didn't have it, and then it auto file shared it!
hahaha, the game is designed to auto transfer any custom content between players, this is going to be a hard knock for the wanna be paysites in that community, EA seem to be taking a stance of stopping the paysite problem before it starts, now all they need to do is stand by their guns and sort out this community.
ETA: at least we will never see thetiberiumwarsresource.com!"
Awesome!
Get booty!
Paysites must be destroyed. ARR!