YouTube - not safe any more

[brihana25]

There is a thread on Kawoosh, started last summer, where we were discussing whether or not it was a good idea to be posting music videos to YouTube. Was the exposure something we, as a fandom, could withstand? Was the free hosting worth the very public venue? Would MGM take action against us

Comments

The Big Picture

[morgandawn]

The 'discussion' has been going on - at least the putting vids online part - since we started digitized our vids 6-67 years ago. It spans a many fandoms and thousands of groups of vidders - in fact vidding has grown so much that there is no longer a single vidding culture or set of guidelines.

I think that fans might want to consider that the nature of the Internet is change - and we need to to keep that firmly in our minds. If Youtube has become more hostile to vidding content, then we need to move ourselves elsewhere - whether to another low profile streaming site or back to our webs.

I would not point the finger at fans who choose to stream their vids and say they are ruining vidding for us - (a) it is counterproductive and (b) it is inaccurate. The RIAA/Studios are the ones 'ruining it' - not just for vidders but for legions of the their fans. They have been battling the democratization and globalization of media for the last decade by refusing to adjust their business models. Seeing vidding as part of that battle may help bring some perspective of how deep and wide the gulf is between fans and the content creators. It is not as if MGM/Viacom/Sony have been 'awakened' by the acts of a few vidders. This is part of a larger strategic battle between Titans.

In other words - we must be clever.... like ducks! And find ways *to work together* as a group to keep vidding going. there are several approaches being undertaken on this front - and none of us know which one will work best.

Re: The Big Picture

[ms_3m]

I didn't want worldwide publicity. I didn't want worldwide exposure. I've been yelled at, insulted, called every name in the book and more, all because I tried my damndest to keep my vids as under the radar as possible. I made them in a small fandom community, and that's where I wanted them to stay.

I think you missed one of the points in brihana's post. She (and others who want to fly under the radar as it were), has lost a certain amount of control as to the distribution of their vids.

At any given time, you can find at least five copies of her Stargate Cantina vid somewhere on YouTube. The poster generally being some (seemingly) immature and brainless individual with no conscience with regard to 'sharing' other peoples creative works. And to add insult to injury... they generally post without attribution, often taking credit for the creation.

If brihana had been able to maintain control over distribution of her creative works, then she probably would not be pursuing this ongoing rant against YouTube, MySpace, etc. And she would not have to worry about TAS and/or herself ever being in the (potential) cross-hairs of TPTB. And the internet can evolve into whatever it will.... maybe to our (vidders') benefit.

I've been very wary of posting vids in public forums such as these from the very beginning and have stated it albeit not as vocally as brihana. She and I have had numerous conversations about the implications and potential fallout.

So here we are. Guys being given and taking credit for coming up with 'smashed' vids....like they were the first to come up with the idea. Vidding finally being recognized in the mainstream only to possibly have to go underground once more. And I'm stuck with a muse that seems to be on extended holiday .... which has nothing to do with this conversation other than I probably will never have a vid hijacked or worry about being in the cross-hairs.

On that note, I'm off to finish an email to brihana.

Re: The Big Picture

[morgandawn]

I did skip over that aspect of her post - not because it is not important, but because it feeds into my main point. And let me be clear - it is extremely frustrating to lose creative control of your work and not be given credit.

But the unauthorized reposting of vids on Youtube leads back into the cultural shift that underlies (underlays??) online fandom (and I might argue online society) with fluid boundaries and effortless sharing. Youtube's success is built on the desire to share freely without permission or attribution.

This shift is what drives some of the positions people are taking in the post "You can't stop the signal" (I linked to it above).

My own personal wishes (don't share without permission. if you share without permission at least credit) don't matter that much in the big scheme of the cultural, technical and legal shifts - which brings me back to the need for us to build connections with each other, understand each other positions and focus on the bigger issues that we're all jointly facing (the losss of our ability to 'fairly use' our culture).

It does occurr to me that a personal LJ may not be the best place to host the discussion (waves to brihana) but the "Can't Stop The Signal" post may be a good place to continue.....

Re: The Big Picture

[stormcloude]

I think you missed one of the points in brihana's post. She ... has lost a certain amount of control as to the distribution of their vids.

Wow, this really struck me, because this could be the exact same argument that NBC/Scifi/MGM use for taking their copyrighted material down.

If brihana NBC/Scifi/MGM had been able to maintain control over distribution of her their creative works, then she they probably would not be pursuing this ongoing rant legal action against YouTube, MySpace, etc.

Sorry, I'm not trying to start anything and I'm not on anyone's side, but it seems rather contraditory.

Re: The Big Picture

[faith_girl222]

not really - no one is going to come knocking on nbc/scifi/mgm's door to threaten them with fines and tell them they can't produce their art any longer because someone carelessly shared their products in public. and certainly they would never be in a position where someone could mistake their products for something made by the uploader and not by them.

Re: The Big Picture

[brihana25]

Sorry, I'm not trying to start anything and I'm not on anyone's side, but it seems rather contraditory.

No offense taken at all, because you're right. There is a certain irony - some have even said hypocrisy - inherent in the situation. My biggest problem with YouTube (right behind the very public exposure it has given the vidding community) is the fact that they now refuse (they used to do it without hesitation) to remove the videos that I made that other people are posting. Why? Because I'm not MGM, I don't own any part of the copyright for Stargate, and I can't present them with all the proper legal documentation to warrant action.

Which is a rather lengthy way of saying they just don't give a shit any more.

The difference that I see is that MGM is wanting creative control of their entire product, whereas I just want to be able to control whether or not I get popped. Of course, there is the point that I put them up for download from my site in the first place, and it's amazing how many people have said that by doing so I was "asking" for them to be posted to YouTube. I think I was too generous with the internet public - I was giving them credit for thinking like me (if you didn't make it, you've got no business giving it to anyone else).

Most especially when doing so puts them in danger. I've been placed in danger, against my will and without my even knowing about it until after the fact, of being sued should MGM decide to go that far. And as Faith pointed out below, that is never going to happen to MGM.