I need a stronger rage icon

[brightcupenny]

Via clubjade.net, condescending jackass tells women we don't need more female superheroes because we'd rather watch Julia Roberts instead. I had a hard time deciding what to quote here, because it's all so horrifying, but this part is particularly relevant for us costumers:
Of course some women actually are interested in superheroes, just as there

Comments

[julietvalcouer]

I don't need more female superheros. I need more movies with Hugh Jackman in black leather kicking ass and slashing people with adamantium claws, and I need more movies with a guy in a red flying robotic armor suit blowing shit up and being ironic about it. (Oh, wait, I'm getting that. Go me!)

I would like to give the response-poster Scotty virtual cookies for his bringing up Buffy in particular: Buffy is practically an X-man. She's a freak with supernatural powers who battles evil. How much more superhero do you get? And if he thinks vampires don't turn up in comics he needs to crawl out of the DC ghetto (as "superhero" to the Jeff dude seems to be "DC comics and some guy named Spider-Man" to which this Marvel girl says "STFU, douchebag") or read a few titles even there. Heck, my biggest problem with Buffy was always the wangsty teenage BS she dealt with.

I would vastly rather see a movie with Stan Lee's name on it than Julia Roberts. And why do people keep using her as an example anyway? When was the last really successful movie she was in that wasn't part of the Oceans franchise (which is a remade Rat Pack guy's film, for cripe's sake?) Sex and the City is at least current (though not a fan here, too. Middle-aged entitlement whores whining about their oh-so-messed-up lives in Manhattan doesn't exactly warm the cockles of my heart. Wash a bottle of Valium down with the Cosmos, girls, and STFU.)

[nmissi]

Hey, if I was a booth owner, I'd cheerfully pay a few guys to stand around dressed like Wolvie- if I could find enough Jackman lookalikes.

I am a girly girl. I wear dresses and paint my nails, I collect dishes and Barbie dolls. And I went to see "Batman Returns" five times to watch Michelle Pfeiffer kick ass and meow. I taped "Birds of Prey" off television, and would gladly pony up for a Huntress movie. The only thing that salvaged "Batman and Robin" was the presence of a tolerable Batgirl and the creepiness of Poison Ivy. I own all the Xmen, Spiderman, and Superman movies (even the dreadful Superman 4) and I even sat thru that piece of shit "Elektra" because, hey, I like the character in the books. The best movie I saw last year was Ironman.

I have never watched an episode of SITC but I have seven gig of Buffy eps on my hard drive. And I'm pretty sure my gender is not in doubt. Girls LIKE Heroic male characters, and females as well. The entire romance novel industry is predicated on the first, and a goodly portion of the fantasy industry is predicated on the second. The writer of that article is either deluded or full of crap.

[lyssie]

I don't need more female superheros.

That's nice. I do.

[julietvalcouer]

Nice for you. I don't see why it's a girl thing, frankly. (Or wanting to watch women in spandex costumes, but that's not my thing, though it is for some people.) The real issue is not should they write more female superheros for women to identify with, it's why wouldn't a woman be able to identify with Peter Parker or Wolverine? (Though X-men is a bad example there as it's chock-full o' female superheros.) Why the assumption that women have to have a female protagonist or they won't get it?

[lyssie]

You're joking, right? Please tell me you are.

Because I should not have to explain to someone how superheroes and action movies and other things of that ilk are overwhelmingly filled with male protagonists.

Nor should I have to explain that women are always supposed to be able to identify with a male protagonist, but men are never required to identify with a female one. Women, after all, are the 'fairer' sex and the ones with the empathy and all that rot. Men just have to grunt and shoot things.

[julietvalcouer]

Well, first, if you think there are a dearth of female heros in the SOURCE MATERIAL, can I suggest getting past the idea that Wonder Woman's basically it? The comics are full of female superheros, even Marvel and DC alone. That doesn't begin to address independent titles. And that male comics readers, not being the neanderthals assumed in the phrase "men just have to grunt and shoot things" actually don't have a problem viewing them as characters? And are as likely as female comics fans to mock the ridiculous way some artists draw them?

What WILL help is women going to see popcorn flicks like Iron Man. If and when they do get "Wonder Woman" and "The Avengers" produced, what will help will be women going to see them and not having as their primary response bitching about the costumes. (Unless they are Catwoman-esque bad, but given that movie tanked with MEN, not just women, that seems unlikely.)
To get them made, BUY the TITLES and if they make the film GO SEE IT. Buy SF/F books with female leads, even if they're by *gasp* male authors! Buy action figures of female characters instead of complaining about how few there are or that the sculpts have unrealistic body proportions (so do the male figures.) And go see movies with MALE superheros. See "Iron Man 2", buy the Hulk DVD, and let producers see that women like superheros without being ghettoized or needing a plot about RWAR WOMYN POWER. See/buy ensemble titles like "The Avengers" and prove there'd be a market for a "Ms Marvel/Warbird" stand-alone.

Also helping would be female audiences demonstrating they want a superhero movie about a *woman* superhero--not Buffy or Kim Possible. Those are proof women watch genre and they are a KIND of superhero--but they are also about teen girls who are as likely to worry about prom as saving the world. It's not really showing that women want *adult* female superheros who are really mostly about kicking butt and saving the world. It's hard to blame producers for thinking that women want it when they buy it--heck, Twilight made a fortune off a HUGE female audience with the world's most useless protagonist. Movies are ultimately about making money and if it makes that kind of money, they'd be fools not to make more. If you want grown-up female protagonists, stay away from the super-cheerleaders, glorified prostitutes, "O HAI LESIBANS" plots and useless damsels. If that's what women watch and buy, producers are going to assume that's what they want. If they buy "She-Hulk" comics, see "The Avengers" and buy the Ms Marvel figures, watch Wonder Woman to cheer on Diana and not bitch about her outfit, and lobby hard for Barbara Gordon (Batgirl/Oracle) to grow up and grab her cape and cowl for the next Batman flick, producers might realize they want that, too and that they will *make money off it*, even if the plots aren't "I have to save the world, but I must also use slegehammer plot to prove I AM JUST AS GOOD AS MEN AND I AM EMPOWERED yet still hot and worried about why I don't date enough." Yeah, life is tough. Now go save the world and don't guilt trip everyone about how it's not fair you have to do it. It's REALLY hard to sympathize with a character who's attractive and incredibly powerful when they whine about how hard they have it--there's a reason Tony Stark gets a boot up the arse about his poor-me crap, and why Buffy was overdue for one by Season Two.

I'll watch a movie with a female superhero. I *won't* watch it if it's "Sex and the City With A Secret Idenity" or "Sweet Valley High Saves the World" or "The Feminist Mystique--With Spandex!" If that's playing I'm going to see "Captain America" instead. Or, heck, at that point, "Elektra." I go to superhero movies to see superheros. If there's eye candy, lovely, but Robert Downey Jr doesn't do it for me and I *still* enjoyed Iron Man.

[lyssie]

You are aware that something like five female-led titles at DC and Marvel have now been canceled including Birds of Prey and She-Hulk?

We have been buying their stuff. Despite the Mary Jane statuette debacle, most of us immediately pick up anything remotely super-hero (or -ine) related that we currently love and/or enjoy.

The trouble is we don't matter enough as an audience for them to give two planks about. The comics industry has known about women buying and reading comics since the early 90s's. Heck, they've known we were dissatisfied with the treatment of women since Gail Simone's Women in Refrigerators hit the 'net.

Although if you listen to them, they'll whine about how they don't understand why women aren't buying their 'specifically-targeted' stuff like Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane.

GEE. I don't know. Maybe it's because the women are put on comics covers in fetishistic, impossible poses and barely-there costumes while the men get to be all artistic and obviously fighting? Or how about the recent spate of rapes, murders, depowerings, beatings and just plain horrible stuff that's happening to the women in comics across the board?

I fail to see how supporting their idiocy will make them pay attention to things like writing women as people.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go invade Poland.