Freenode sucks
I logged into freenode, which I haven't logged into in a while, to help stop some trolling on #bittorrent. I couldn't identify as my nick any more, so I went to ask for help...
when did you register it?
uh, circa 2000
the current registration is a little over 6 months old - if you did register it in 2000 it must have expired since
so someone just stole my nick?
since when does this thing expire registrations?
I'm pretty sure I've logged in within the last year
given that I've always had this nick, and that there are only two people named Bram which are recognizable names in open source, and that my name is one of the most well known in open source, I'd like my nick back :-P
nicks are considered expired after 60 days of inactivity, after which they can be dropped either on request or when we ocassionally clean up the services database
also, there's a problem that I'm an op on a channel, and need to give access in it to other people
that policy is completely retarded
the #bittorrent channel is having a problem with trolls, and we need to get rid of them, and thanks to that lamebrained policy there's currently noone with sufficient ops privileges in the channel to do anything about it
I'm sorry you feel that way, it's not really reasonable for us to keep nickname registrations perpetually when they are not being used
get real. I've logged in within the last year, getting rid of them after six months is nuts
if nobody does anything about this I'm going to go public about it, freenode does NOT want the publicity of me being pissed off
er, after 60 days I meant, I've never heard of nick expiration on such a short time scale, from any site
I can easily prove who I am. I'm the well-known author of an important project and need my nick back to stop trolling in the project channel, is there anything which can be done about this or do I have to make a stink?
handing the nick back to you, even if I were able to do that, would not restore any channel access you had when you held the registration
channel access flags are dropped along with the account
well how can we get someone to have ops on the channel?
if you are an offical representative of the bittorrent project you can assert that by filing a group registration, which would allow you to reclaim #bittorrent
and how can I do that?
http://freenode.net/group_registration.shtml
you may also wish to talk to the current channel registrant - he can add additional users to the access list at this point
oh, my mistake, it's been held
what do you mean held?
maybe you missed that part about me being the channel registrant
and my nick being stolen
yes, I misread something I was looking at - my mistake
to avoid primary namespace (single-#) channels being lost in sitations such as this we transfer them to staff control in the event of the founder's nick being dropped
it makes it fairly straightforward to reassign them when there is a group registration rather than having them appear to be available for re-registration by anyone
I have never, in my entire life, heard of a registration expiration process which was this aggresive, or this cavalier about damaging existing relationships
the 60 days figure is just a minimum - we normally allow more grace (typically 1 week per year) for long standing registraions when processing drops by hand
you say that as if adding a few weeks to the end would make the time frame reasonable
we don't feel it is reasonable to hold nickname registrations perpetually if they are not being used
I'm not asking for perpetually
just something vaguely reasonable
and I hope you realize that you just completely pissed off one of the most well known and respected people in the whole open source community
I'm sorry you are upset
I'm just going to pretend you're a robot and not blow my stack at you
but it's requiring effort
What do you expect me to do? I can't very well return a nick to you that has been in use by someone else for well over 6 months.
well maybe the policies could have kept that person from taking over the nick, seeing as how I was using it for NINE YEARS prior to that
Had we known at the time that you were planning to be away from the network for an extended period of time we could have arranged for it to be held for you
I know it's unfortunate to lose a long-standing registration, but we do have to have some limit on what we consider a reasonable activity level
I was never informed of there being any such policy. I was never informed via email than my nick was about to expire. Any minimal checking of expirations being done by hand, which you say it is, would have indicated that my nick should absolutely not have been expired
unfortuantely it's difficult to verify which steps were or were not taken this long after the event
[Update] Well now that I've managed to get called an asshole (hi, HackerNews commenters who registered five minutes ago!) Here are my calmer thoughts
The reason I posted the log verbatim, me being pissed off and all, is that I wanted to make very clear that I was accurately representing official freenode policy, and that requesting help through support leads nowhere. My gripe is with freenode policy, which is asinine, not with the particular person I spoke to, who was merely being useless and patronizing.
The reason I got pissed wasn't because of the nick loss, which I find mildly annoying, but because channel ops got blown away, causing me to have to deal with this bullshit instead of just giving ops to someone else.
Yes I can be blunt. If you value the superficial affectation of politeness over the essential point of what someone is saying, you can shove it. I don't appreciate people saying that I'm this way because of asperger's, it just causes other people to whine that they're being oppressed because they can't criticize me. The whole line of argument is stupid. People are free to criticize me for not being polite, and I'm free to respond that they're being petty and superficial.
The whole 'it's free so you can't complain' argument is bullshit. There are plenty of free things which are of negative value to society because they suck up or distract resources which could be working on a much better alternative. I've provided lots of support for free stuff myself, both via employees and directly, and never have I claimed that a problem won't be fixed because the person airing a legitimate gripe hasn't gone through arbitrary bureaucratic processes, or that the person complaining should implement it themselves because they're a programmer, or refused to acknowledge that some pain a user experienced through no fault of their own really was unfortunate. And I always prioritize up users who matter and problems which need immediate fixing. That's the way you run things if you actually care about providing a valuable service.
As far as whether my ops problem might get resolved, whether I'd utterly cursed out the guy from support or had the humility of a saint, it probably wouldn't get handled regardless.
[Update 2] Some commenters don't seem to understand that Freenode policy, in fact Freenode's whole foundation for legitimacy, is that project leaders are entitled to control their channels. I am in fact a project leader with a long established channel, and in the time that site op spent pedantically repeating rules and procedures he could have verified who I was and fixed the situation, which, say what you will about lilo, is something he actually would do. I was not making any claim to importance which I don't unambiguously have, and my message to other programmers considering using public servers is that OFTC is down the hall and to the left.
when did you register it?
uh, circa 2000
the current registration is a little over 6 months old - if you did register it in 2000 it must have expired since
so someone just stole my nick?
since when does this thing expire registrations?
I'm pretty sure I've logged in within the last year
given that I've always had this nick, and that there are only two people named Bram which are recognizable names in open source, and that my name is one of the most well known in open source, I'd like my nick back :-P
nicks are considered expired after 60 days of inactivity, after which they can be dropped either on request or when we ocassionally clean up the services database
also, there's a problem that I'm an op on a channel, and need to give access in it to other people
that policy is completely retarded
the #bittorrent channel is having a problem with trolls, and we need to get rid of them, and thanks to that lamebrained policy there's currently noone with sufficient ops privileges in the channel to do anything about it
I'm sorry you feel that way, it's not really reasonable for us to keep nickname registrations perpetually when they are not being used
get real. I've logged in within the last year, getting rid of them after six months is nuts
if nobody does anything about this I'm going to go public about it, freenode does NOT want the publicity of me being pissed off
er, after 60 days I meant, I've never heard of nick expiration on such a short time scale, from any site
I can easily prove who I am. I'm the well-known author of an important project and need my nick back to stop trolling in the project channel, is there anything which can be done about this or do I have to make a stink?
handing the nick back to you, even if I were able to do that, would not restore any channel access you had when you held the registration
channel access flags are dropped along with the account
well how can we get someone to have ops on the channel?
if you are an offical representative of the bittorrent project you can assert that by filing a group registration, which would allow you to reclaim #bittorrent
and how can I do that?
http://freenode.net/group_registration.shtml
you may also wish to talk to the current channel registrant - he can add additional users to the access list at this point
oh, my mistake, it's been held
what do you mean held?
maybe you missed that part about me being the channel registrant
and my nick being stolen
yes, I misread something I was looking at - my mistake
to avoid primary namespace (single-#) channels being lost in sitations such as this we transfer them to staff control in the event of the founder's nick being dropped
it makes it fairly straightforward to reassign them when there is a group registration rather than having them appear to be available for re-registration by anyone
I have never, in my entire life, heard of a registration expiration process which was this aggresive, or this cavalier about damaging existing relationships
the 60 days figure is just a minimum - we normally allow more grace (typically 1 week per year) for long standing registraions when processing drops by hand
you say that as if adding a few weeks to the end would make the time frame reasonable
we don't feel it is reasonable to hold nickname registrations perpetually if they are not being used
I'm not asking for perpetually
just something vaguely reasonable
and I hope you realize that you just completely pissed off one of the most well known and respected people in the whole open source community
I'm sorry you are upset
I'm just going to pretend you're a robot and not blow my stack at you
but it's requiring effort
What do you expect me to do? I can't very well return a nick to you that has been in use by someone else for well over 6 months.
well maybe the policies could have kept that person from taking over the nick, seeing as how I was using it for NINE YEARS prior to that
Had we known at the time that you were planning to be away from the network for an extended period of time we could have arranged for it to be held for you
I know it's unfortunate to lose a long-standing registration, but we do have to have some limit on what we consider a reasonable activity level
I was never informed of there being any such policy. I was never informed via email than my nick was about to expire. Any minimal checking of expirations being done by hand, which you say it is, would have indicated that my nick should absolutely not have been expired
unfortuantely it's difficult to verify which steps were or were not taken this long after the event
[Update] Well now that I've managed to get called an asshole (hi, HackerNews commenters who registered five minutes ago!) Here are my calmer thoughts
The reason I posted the log verbatim, me being pissed off and all, is that I wanted to make very clear that I was accurately representing official freenode policy, and that requesting help through support leads nowhere. My gripe is with freenode policy, which is asinine, not with the particular person I spoke to, who was merely being useless and patronizing.
The reason I got pissed wasn't because of the nick loss, which I find mildly annoying, but because channel ops got blown away, causing me to have to deal with this bullshit instead of just giving ops to someone else.
Yes I can be blunt. If you value the superficial affectation of politeness over the essential point of what someone is saying, you can shove it. I don't appreciate people saying that I'm this way because of asperger's, it just causes other people to whine that they're being oppressed because they can't criticize me. The whole line of argument is stupid. People are free to criticize me for not being polite, and I'm free to respond that they're being petty and superficial.
The whole 'it's free so you can't complain' argument is bullshit. There are plenty of free things which are of negative value to society because they suck up or distract resources which could be working on a much better alternative. I've provided lots of support for free stuff myself, both via employees and directly, and never have I claimed that a problem won't be fixed because the person airing a legitimate gripe hasn't gone through arbitrary bureaucratic processes, or that the person complaining should implement it themselves because they're a programmer, or refused to acknowledge that some pain a user experienced through no fault of their own really was unfortunate. And I always prioritize up users who matter and problems which need immediate fixing. That's the way you run things if you actually care about providing a valuable service.
As far as whether my ops problem might get resolved, whether I'd utterly cursed out the guy from support or had the humility of a saint, it probably wouldn't get handled regardless.
[Update 2] Some commenters don't seem to understand that Freenode policy, in fact Freenode's whole foundation for legitimacy, is that project leaders are entitled to control their channels. I am in fact a project leader with a long established channel, and in the time that site op spent pedantically repeating rules and procedures he could have verified who I was and fixed the situation, which, say what you will about lilo, is something he actually would do. I was not making any claim to importance which I don't unambiguously have, and my message to other programmers considering using public servers is that OFTC is down the hall and to the left.