Since all the cool kids on LJ are writing posts about the immigration issue, I thought I'd just throw in my 2 cents (or maybe 2 jiao) from China
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i dont think any of the illegals, at least those here in los angeles, have any intention of taking civicis classes, learning english, paying backtaxes and other fines, and jumping through the rest of the hoops outlined in the bills. i dont think this will solve illegal immigration or even really encourage them to identify themselves. how would any of this be enforced? i'm not trying to be a smartass about this, but i'm concerned about how this would be enforced when current immigration laws are hardly enforced as they are.
i do agree, however, with your point that the borders need to be secured (for SECURITY reasons, as you ouline, not JUST immigration reasons) and that the current citizenship process needs to be straightforward and efficient. i do feel bad for those who are trying to follow the rules while waiting for years and years on end to be granted citizenship.
it's going to be interesting to see what will happen.
what kind of attitudes do the chinese have toward immigrants in china?
mexican laws are kind of intersting. from what i've read, they have a bit of problem with illegal aliens from guatemala. they are quick to deny healthcare and education to these people and obviously make it hard for them to become mexican citizens.
I would say that most people want stability in life above most everything else. Especially someone who has children. The ability to plan for the future is (nearly) priceless. So given the opportunity to "legalize" themselves and not live in fear of discovery/deportation, I find it somewhat hard to believe that most responsible and reasonably intelligent people wouldn't jump at the opportunity.
Once the bill is enacted (a bit of an "if" there), I would be all about accountability. Since they had been given the ability to make themselves legal, I would be all about accountability. They would effectively be committing tax evasion. And that's a crime, and a crime that I'd want to see them punished for. I don't think anybody wants to let people get away with these "unsavory" activities. I'm just arguing that those people who DO want to do things the "right" way should be given the opportunity. After than opportunity is given, accountability should be expected. Maybe there would be a one-year grace period, but after any such grace period expired, I wouldn't have a problem with rounding up those who willfully disobeyed new immigration laws. I just don't think today's immigrants have been given a fair shake because of unnecessarily arbitrary and capricious immigration laws. Once fairness (in my mind at least) has been granted, nobody should expect special treatment. They could be considered state or federal criminals for tax evasion (as they were given the opportunity to enter the tax base). That's a crime, and they could and should be arrested for it. Also, once the new system is in place, fines should be imposed on companies that (with the now wide pool of *legal* labor) insist on employing illegal laborers.
China is no big fan of immigration. But I think a lot of that is that "being Chinese" means something a lot different than "being American". Because "Chinese" has an ethnic history that "American" does not, it's nearly impossible to become a Chinese citizen if you weren't born one. I don't know of anyone being a naturalized Chinese citizen. (Japan is another country that doesn't naturalize citizens) The Chinese are sticklers about making people pay for visas even if they are only tourists. It's kind of annoying actually. (See my post about replacing my resident permit after losing my passport) But to my view, that's a weakness for the Chinese and open immigration policies are a strength for America.
I hope that wasn't too rambling, I'm watching "Showgirls" right now and drinking!
i do agree, however, with your point that the borders need to be secured (for SECURITY reasons, as you ouline, not JUST immigration reasons) and that the current citizenship process needs to be straightforward and efficient. i do feel bad for those who are trying to follow the rules while waiting for years and years on end to be granted citizenship.
it's going to be interesting to see what will happen.
what kind of attitudes do the chinese have toward immigrants in china?
mexican laws are kind of intersting. from what i've read, they have a bit of problem with illegal aliens from guatemala. they are quick to deny healthcare and education to these people and obviously make it hard for them to become mexican citizens.
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I would say that most people want stability in life above most everything else. Especially someone who has children. The ability to plan for the future is (nearly) priceless. So given the opportunity to "legalize" themselves and not live in fear of discovery/deportation, I find it somewhat hard to believe that most responsible and reasonably intelligent people wouldn't jump at the opportunity.
Once the bill is enacted (a bit of an "if" there), I would be all about accountability. Since they had been given the ability to make themselves legal, I would be all about accountability. They would effectively be committing tax evasion. And that's a crime, and a crime that I'd want to see them punished for. I don't think anybody wants to let people get away with these "unsavory" activities. I'm just arguing that those people who DO want to do things the "right" way should be given the opportunity. After than opportunity is given, accountability should be expected. Maybe there would be a one-year grace period, but after any such grace period expired, I wouldn't have a problem with rounding up those who willfully disobeyed new immigration laws. I just don't think today's immigrants have been given a fair shake because of unnecessarily arbitrary and capricious immigration laws. Once fairness (in my mind at least) has been granted, nobody should expect special treatment. They could be considered state or federal criminals for tax evasion (as they were given the opportunity to enter the tax base). That's a crime, and they could and should be arrested for it. Also, once the new system is in place, fines should be imposed on companies that (with the now wide pool of *legal* labor) insist on employing illegal laborers.
China is no big fan of immigration. But I think a lot of that is that "being Chinese" means something a lot different than "being American". Because "Chinese" has an ethnic history that "American" does not, it's nearly impossible to become a Chinese citizen if you weren't born one. I don't know of anyone being a naturalized Chinese citizen. (Japan is another country that doesn't naturalize citizens) The Chinese are sticklers about making people pay for visas even if they are only tourists. It's kind of annoying actually. (See my post about replacing my resident permit after losing my passport) But to my view, that's a weakness for the Chinese and open immigration policies are a strength for America.
I hope that wasn't too rambling, I'm watching "Showgirls" right now and drinking!
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