4x20: The show that wasn't The Show

Apr 30, 2009 23:22

-_- )

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blackjedii May 13 2009, 01:00:41 UTC
But it's funny how the big bads just seem to want Dean DEAD/out of the way and want to get into Sam's pants.
Hehe. It's because bad guys like it rough and Sam's all manbeast in bed. Dean however is fun but a "gentle" lover.

it seems like bits and pieces of interesting lore are cut and pasted into the story and can influence the general direction of things.
Agreed. In retrospect it still seems like Sam could be the Boy King / Antichrist not because he's evil but he is involved in the Apocalypse and he could very well help break the final seal. Daggone I wish we'd had more Lilith time now... alhtough by saying that I fully acknowledge that if we'd have gotten it I might have been like "Man Lilith talks too much and creeps too little." I am a fickle one.

but that he may have something invested in the outcome of the Heaven and Hell battle royale
They'd definitely have to. I am sure that the Trickster wants to see a world full of pious individuals and God's stuffy angels just as much as he wants to see a world full of de~monic no-funs because it's only when humans are being their usual human selves that he gets to have fun. Likewise, the few pagan gods that still exist probably don't want all their worshippers either worshipping God or being used as meatsuits. It might be cool to see a few more gods pop up next season but that may be too Neil Gaiman for mainstream CW.

Although that's not a comforting thought from a plotting perspective (becuase if the Show runners are totally making everything up as they go how depressing is that?), it could be a vague possibility. I prefer to not think about that, though because then it means tying up the series will likely be gross and messy and potentially unsatisfying.
I do remember Kripke saying that ep. 6 is where he wanted to start S4 so that he's relatively pleased with things. And I definitely agree that I remember a few moments where they said Sam would be getting his powers back again.
The problem comes back to them supposedly revealing Sam's destiny and YED's plans late S3 because at that moment I don't think the Seals et. all were ultimately planned until now. Which considering Kripke's story, he could have always been going for the Apocalypse in some form but just chose this at the beginning of the season.
I don't think that he's going completely utterly off the rails but I DO think that he has less planned and more specific character points as the grand plan. If you get to listen to the commentary for in the Beginning... let's see, starts here Kripke does admit that his story is less planned than people seem to believe.

So I don't know. I will call foul if Sam's entire destiny is wrapped up in breaking a seal, but I'll be all right if it's something else. I think. I just feel extremely angry if what they planned for three years was then swapped around to make room for angels and to bring in Dean. (Not because they're bringing in Dean, but because it would be throwing out that three year buildup and playing sneaky about it...)

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bowtrunckle May 16 2009, 18:37:07 UTC
Sam's all manbeast in bed. Dean however is fun but a "gentle" lover

*snork* Well, Kripke does like to beat his identical opposites drum, doesn't he? ;)

but I DO think that he has less planned and more specific character points as the grand plan.

Yes, probably. Fuzzy vagueness... but he knows the ending and has told Gamble who concurs. *eee* I did see he "ItB" commentary. Krikpe seems to think we think he knows every little detail. Heh. If that were the case and he were an expert plotter than he wouldn't need to have a team of writer supporting him. Thank heavens for Edlund and Gamble, who I think help keep Kripke from running off the scales with swear words, pop culture references, and making "bitch" and "whore" every other word. Also he should never write sex scenes ever again and leave it up to Humphries and Gamble.

I will call foul if Sam's entire destiny is wrapped up in breaking a seal, but I'll be all right if it's something else.

I'm really HOPING that we're going to see more of this "Boy King" idea and revisit the fact there are factions of demons (Casey and Father Gil) that would willingly follow Sam (however, that might be strange now that Lucifer is out ... hmmm). I'm hoping that that's part of Sam's destiny not just him breaking the final seal. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a proponent for 100%evil!Sam who leads legions of demons, but rather a faction of shadesofgray!demons who are willing to follow good!Sam in the war. You know the saying "fight fire with fire"? Sam ultimately being in control and actually using his powers to achieve something that he wants, something that's REALLY for the greater good and not just a facade is important to me, esp. after seeing how he's been completely manipulated and powerless all S4.

I think I rambled about this to you in a previous comment this morning. Sorry about that. If so, feel free to ignore this. *crosses eyes*

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blackjedii May 18 2009, 00:03:47 UTC
Thank heavens for Edlund and Gamble, ... he should never write sex scenes ever again and leave it up to Humphries and Gamble
I have to disagree on Ben Edlund - I think he's overall made many things worse. Good crack / humor episodes he can usually do; tight plotting he can either do well or badly (compare Nightshifter to Malleus) but going back to that... the absolute worst bitch/whore episode methinks was MM and that's all Edlund as far as I know. I'd take John Shiban back in an instant over Ben Edlund even though I think John Shiban had bigger plotholes. ^.^;;
As for Sera Gamble, I don't like her sex scenes as much because of "Sam goes MANBEAST!" but I appreciate that she really does dig in to Sam like nobody else. Humprhies is actually my favorite sex-writer but if this season proved anything, it's that she can bring the disturbing / horror element to it like nobody's business. I may have to try to find the sides to Sex and Violence / Metamorphosis again because they're pretty cool and there is definitely a "style" to them (it's why I guessed she'd written S&V actually - same description of a sex scene).

You know the saying "fight fire with fire"? Sam ultimately being in control and actually using his powers to achieve something that he wants, something that's REALLY for the greater good and not just a facade is important to me, esp. after seeing how he's been completely manipulated and powerless all S4
I totally can agree with that. <3 Sam's helplessness / "screwup" at the end of the season nearly killed me just because it happened AGAIN and I was all "arghargh!!" because Sam just can't win darnit. I've mellowed a bit but Kripke better deliver Sam getting some self-esteem and genuine happiness soon.. otherwise I am fully expecting Sam to be suicidal at the beginning of next season. Possibly crazy. I kind of thought he'd lost his mind in 4.22 considering the way he was similing and saying "He's coming..." so eheh...

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blackjedii May 18 2009, 00:05:46 UTC
Add to that that I am -mildly- hopeful that there is more to Sam than just a sealbreaker considering his eyes did turn black and Ruby was all "It was always going to be you." I am hoping that's important because it's come up before from her but ehh... we'll see. Lucky for the spoiler hogs that sides tend to come out late June to mid-July even though they've actually gotten sneakier about casting sides.

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