But I think on my part this was silly to bring up because it's a never ending discussion that means nothing in the long run.
Well, it's a never-ending discussion, yes, but it ties into the whole creepy!dude ex machina thing and the resolution of the story, so it's not silly to bring it up.
But from an audience of a TV show point of view, I still think this was dragged out too long.
*deep sigh* I know, I know. And I do agree with you. That was just me desperately attempting to justify the boys' discussion somehow because I want the return-from-hiatus ep be totally cool and awesome, no matter what. *is lame*
It's this internal shift, the fact that I think he now questions the most fundamental part of himself, the part he's always fallen back on --
Yes, it's an internal shift but I didn't really see it. That might just be my problem, though. Dean's angsting about the torture so much that the fact he even enjoyed it doesn't really register with me; also, because Dean would've hunted nonstop enjoyment or not, I can't really track the internal shift in Dean. I mean, he's known all this time that he enjoyed it, but that fact has been overshadowed by the simple revelation of how he got off the rack. *shrugs* Maybe this just means that I'll need to rewatch S4. Damn. ;)
I've been sad-facing a lot lately with the Show and I'm getting tired of it. *sad faces even more*
What? Nooooo! Why? And more importantly, is there any way I can help you to feel better about the show?
Out of what I consider to be the five MotW episodes so far this season there have been a higher proportion with the "boys share a moment" bookends than any other season (4x04, 4x08, 4x11).
Oh you evil scientist, you suck. I can't argue with numbers and facts. :P And I'll admit that I was trying to be an optimist here (again). I don't know if book ending the episodes has something to do with the new mytharc and trying to handle that as well as possible and therefore letting the MotW episodes back it up more strongly than in S1/S2. But indeed it would be awesome to have endings like in 2x12 or 2x17.
--but also to save the world from the demon Dean was becoming.
OMG, I totally had not thought about that. Dean would've made one bad-ass demon! But still, he would've had to be on his way to make a seriously powerful demon if a divine intervention was needed (though there were the other benefits to getting Dean out that you mentioned). I just really like the idea that Dean's also somehow chosen like Sam. Symmetry, man! :D
I'm curious to see if that actually does become the title!
I'll need to find the vid where that was mentioned because the way the story was told made me smile big time.
*smishes you back in an attempt to cheer you up* *pokes you into watching this vid because the Js will make you smile*
That was just me desperately attempting to justify the boys' discussion somehow because I want the return-from-hiatus ep be totally cool and awesome, no matter what. *is lame*
Aww, you are not lame. And I wish this season was progressing better than it is and I wasn't so disgruntled with its pace and weirdly weighted plot emphasis because I want every episode to be awesome and cool and blow me away.
Yes, it's an internal shift but I didn't really see it. That might just be my problem, though.
OK, I see what you're saying. You're not the only one who has mentioned this blackjedii wrote a meta on this and llywela has been discussing this in her thread to this post. It seems strange that Dean's acting like pre-Hell Dean and on the other hand it seems like maybe he'd be repressing (and wouldn't it be disturbing and sad if Dean lost what makes him essentially Dean ... jokes, horndoggyness, impulse control issues?). I can see both sides to the argument and agree with parts of both of them. But, like I was telling llywela, I reached my saturation point with Dean's Hell story early this season and now just don't really care about it one way or another. *sad, frustrated face* That pretty much kills any desire to write meta regarding Dean.
is there any way I can help you to feel better about the show?
You could fly to Vancouver and meet me at the Con and we can fangirl over everything and be in a J2 sandwich! :D \o/
I'll admit that I was trying to be an optimist here (again)
*smish* I think I need some more optimism. Thankfully you're here!
But indeed it would be awesome to have endings like in 2x12 or 2x17
We have 11 more episodes this season, there's got to be an ending on part with one of those. *hopes*
I just really like the idea that Dean's also somehow chosen like Sam. Symmetry, man! :D
Symmetry! *dances* Two chosen ones would be very neat! You think there are actually prophecies somewhere about Sam (and Dean)?
*pokes you into watching this vid because the Js will make you smile*
AHHHH! I love this vid! Such a happy, happy, huggy thing. Thank you! *is now cheered* :D
I reached my saturation point with Dean's Hell story early this season--
While I think that they could've hinted more at Dean remembering Hell (with perhaps a few additional flashbacks), for me the overall pacing of that storyline worked. It was actually a lot like S2 and the secret John told Dean in 2x01 and Dean told Sam in 2x10. The rerun of 2x10 was aired here just last Thursday (so Thu is in a way also SPN day for me) and made me think about the similarities in S2 and S4.
You could fly to Vancouver and meet me at the Con and we can fangirl over everything and be in a J2 sandwich!
As much as I'm very excited and YAY! \o/ about this plan, I kind of meant if there was anything I could do now. :)
You think there are actually prophecies somewhere about Sam (and Dean)?
Now that would be awesome, wouldn't it? I'd really like to think that there's a prophecy mentioning the boys. Or if destiny isn't fully at work in the show, at least that when Sam became the last surviving PsyKid and got an integral part in the demon war, Dean became someone equally important also. Because YAY, symmetry (and epic destinies and AWESOME BOYS). \o/
It was actually a lot like S2 and the secret John told Dean in 2x01 and Dean told Sam in 2x10.
This is true. *ponders* I wonder why it is that this season it didn't work for me when I had no problem with it in S2. Hmm. *scratches head* I think it's because there was one main story arc and even though that specific plot point was spun out, the rest of the mytharc-related reveals were all moving in the same direction so I didn't feel like we weren't going anywhere or impatient. This season I think it's the fact there are 2 mytharc-related stories that (to me) almost seem to be competing with each other (even though in the end they'll merge into one storyline, I'm sure). I think the bottom line was that I was getting tired of Dean's reveals and wanted to know what else was going on with the rest of the story.
I kind of meant if there was anything I could do now. :)
Oh, *glee* You ... erm ... could send good vibes to Kripke so that he writes an awesome season finale that makes us all scream and pull our hair out but in the end leaves us satisfied and looking forward to next season. :D
I'd really like to think that there's a prophecy mentioning the boys.
At first I was thinking, "NO PROPHECIES" because I thought it would be a cop out with the whole emphasis on free will. But now that I've been thinking about it more, it might be kind of cool. I especially love the crazy weirdness of self-fulfilling prophecies. So, in conclusion, it prophecies could be cool if used the right way. :D
BTW, did you see the most recent edition of the SPN mag and the interview with David Nutter? There's a question/answer about Wendigo that is exactly what your proposed spnematography meta was on. He also talked a little about what it's like to direct the episode after the pilot, which could be added to the expert section of the Viewer's Guide for "Wendigo". I'm still trying to finish the edition for "DitW", but have been stalled for a month or two because I've been trying to find ways to make screencaps of the DVD of "The Ring" which I cannot do no matter what conversion software I install or how many torrent sites I search for it in a .wmv or .avi file. I even called in the big guns, my brother, and he's clueless. I have an .avi file of "The Ring Two" to use instead, but the director is different so I'm not certain its style or narrative is going to fit with the meta. *grumbles* Also, I'll post the spnematography prompt for last week's episode tonight. :)
Well, it's a never-ending discussion, yes, but it ties into the whole creepy!dude ex machina thing and the resolution of the story, so it's not silly to bring it up.
But from an audience of a TV show point of view, I still think this was dragged out too long.
*deep sigh* I know, I know. And I do agree with you. That was just me desperately attempting to justify the boys' discussion somehow because I want the return-from-hiatus ep be totally cool and awesome, no matter what. *is lame*
It's this internal shift, the fact that I think he now questions the most fundamental part of himself, the part he's always fallen back on --
Yes, it's an internal shift but I didn't really see it. That might just be my problem, though. Dean's angsting about the torture so much that the fact he even enjoyed it doesn't really register with me; also, because Dean would've hunted nonstop enjoyment or not, I can't really track the internal shift in Dean. I mean, he's known all this time that he enjoyed it, but that fact has been overshadowed by the simple revelation of how he got off the rack. *shrugs* Maybe this just means that I'll need to rewatch S4. Damn. ;)
I've been sad-facing a lot lately with the Show and I'm getting tired of it. *sad faces even more*
What? Nooooo! Why? And more importantly, is there any way I can help you to feel better about the show?
Out of what I consider to be the five MotW episodes so far this season there have been a higher proportion with the "boys share a moment" bookends than any other season (4x04, 4x08, 4x11).
Oh you evil scientist, you suck. I can't argue with numbers and facts. :P And I'll admit that I was trying to be an optimist here (again). I don't know if book ending the episodes has something to do with the new mytharc and trying to handle that as well as possible and therefore letting the MotW episodes back it up more strongly than in S1/S2. But indeed it would be awesome to have endings like in 2x12 or 2x17.
--but also to save the world from the demon Dean was becoming.
OMG, I totally had not thought about that. Dean would've made one bad-ass demon! But still, he would've had to be on his way to make a seriously powerful demon if a divine intervention was needed (though there were the other benefits to getting Dean out that you mentioned). I just really like the idea that Dean's also somehow chosen like Sam. Symmetry, man! :D
I'm curious to see if that actually does become the title!
I'll need to find the vid where that was mentioned because the way the story was told made me smile big time.
*smishes you back in an attempt to cheer you up*
*pokes you into watching this vid because the Js will make you smile*
Reply
Aww, you are not lame. And I wish this season was progressing better than it is and I wasn't so disgruntled with its pace and weirdly weighted plot emphasis because I want every episode to be awesome and cool and blow me away.
Yes, it's an internal shift but I didn't really see it. That might just be my problem, though.
OK, I see what you're saying. You're not the only one who has mentioned this blackjedii wrote a meta on this and llywela has been discussing this in her thread to this post. It seems strange that Dean's acting like pre-Hell Dean and on the other hand it seems like maybe he'd be repressing (and wouldn't it be disturbing and sad if Dean lost what makes him essentially Dean ... jokes, horndoggyness, impulse control issues?). I can see both sides to the argument and agree with parts of both of them. But, like I was telling llywela, I reached my saturation point with Dean's Hell story early this season and now just don't really care about it one way or another. *sad, frustrated face* That pretty much kills any desire to write meta regarding Dean.
is there any way I can help you to feel better about the show?
You could fly to Vancouver and meet me at the Con and we can fangirl over everything and be in a J2 sandwich! :D \o/
I'll admit that I was trying to be an optimist here (again)
*smish* I think I need some more optimism. Thankfully you're here!
But indeed it would be awesome to have endings like in 2x12 or 2x17
We have 11 more episodes this season, there's got to be an ending on part with one of those. *hopes*
I just really like the idea that Dean's also somehow chosen like Sam. Symmetry, man! :D
Symmetry! *dances* Two chosen ones would be very neat! You think there are actually prophecies somewhere about Sam (and Dean)?
*pokes you into watching this vid because the Js will make you smile*
AHHHH! I love this vid! Such a happy, happy, huggy thing. Thank you! *is now cheered* :D
Reply
While I think that they could've hinted more at Dean remembering Hell (with perhaps a few additional flashbacks), for me the overall pacing of that storyline worked. It was actually a lot like S2 and the secret John told Dean in 2x01 and Dean told Sam in 2x10. The rerun of 2x10 was aired here just last Thursday (so Thu is in a way also SPN day for me) and made me think about the similarities in S2 and S4.
You could fly to Vancouver and meet me at the Con and we can fangirl over everything and be in a J2 sandwich!
As much as I'm very excited and YAY! \o/ about this plan, I kind of meant if there was anything I could do now. :)
You think there are actually prophecies somewhere about Sam (and Dean)?
Now that would be awesome, wouldn't it? I'd really like to think that there's a prophecy mentioning the boys. Or if destiny isn't fully at work in the show, at least that when Sam became the last surviving PsyKid and got an integral part in the demon war, Dean became someone equally important also. Because YAY, symmetry (and epic destinies and AWESOME BOYS). \o/
Reply
This is true. *ponders* I wonder why it is that this season it didn't work for me when I had no problem with it in S2. Hmm. *scratches head* I think it's because there was one main story arc and even though that specific plot point was spun out, the rest of the mytharc-related reveals were all moving in the same direction so I didn't feel like we weren't going anywhere or impatient. This season I think it's the fact there are 2 mytharc-related stories that (to me) almost seem to be competing with each other (even though in the end they'll merge into one storyline, I'm sure). I think the bottom line was that I was getting tired of Dean's reveals and wanted to know what else was going on with the rest of the story.
I kind of meant if there was anything I could do now. :)
Oh, *glee* You ... erm ... could send good vibes to Kripke so that he writes an awesome season finale that makes us all scream and pull our hair out but in the end leaves us satisfied and looking forward to next season. :D
I'd really like to think that there's a prophecy mentioning the boys.
At first I was thinking, "NO PROPHECIES" because I thought it would be a cop out with the whole emphasis on free will. But now that I've been thinking about it more, it might be kind of cool. I especially love the crazy weirdness of self-fulfilling prophecies. So, in conclusion, it prophecies could be cool if used the right way. :D
BTW, did you see the most recent edition of the SPN mag and the interview with David Nutter? There's a question/answer about Wendigo that is exactly what your proposed spnematography meta was on. He also talked a little about what it's like to direct the episode after the pilot, which could be added to the expert section of the Viewer's Guide for "Wendigo". I'm still trying to finish the edition for "DitW", but have been stalled for a month or two because I've been trying to find ways to make screencaps of the DVD of "The Ring" which I cannot do no matter what conversion software I install or how many torrent sites I search for it in a .wmv or .avi file. I even called in the big guns, my brother, and he's clueless. I have an .avi file of "The Ring Two" to use instead, but the director is different so I'm not certain its style or narrative is going to fit with the meta. *grumbles* Also, I'll post the spnematography prompt for last week's episode tonight. :)
Reply
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