3x11: No Words Just Flaily Hand Gestures
You guys you guys you GUYS! OMFG! OMG. O. M. G.
----------- *beeeep*
That's my freaking heart flat lining. Jesus. This episode killed me. There are so many golden moments and lines soon-to-be indoctrinated into fandom's conglomerate of catch phrases, I don't know where to begin.
When Dean died on Wednesday and Sam closed his eyes and opened ( Read more... )
Faced with the loss of Dean, Sam has become the abyss...there's nothing there, barely anything that we expect to see as human.
Chilling. I agree 100%. The one saving grace for me was Bobby. Toward the end his Sam and Bobby's conversation, you could see glimpses of normal!Sam. He was obviously conflicted and was still able to discern the difference between killing an unknown and killing a friend (a full-blooded, dark demon would've probably just killed Bobby). I'm convinced that Sam wasn't so far gone that he would've killed Bobby if he hadn't figured he might've been the trickester.
But this makes me wonder just how close Sam and Bobby are. We know Dean thinks of Bobby like a father. Does Sam?
there was a shot of these neon-ish green eyes. It could be a creature, but I like to think it was Dean, on his way to becoming demonic, yet still watching out for Sam.
Oh, I like that! I was being literal with those clips lol. The green-eyed shot was from "Skin"; I'm pretty sure it's shapeshifter!Dean with lens flare eyeballs. Your interpretation is much more interesting.
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Eh, I suppose it could be a shapeshifter, demons have different eye colors, so I guess why not shifters too? The shifter in 'Skin' had silvery eyes tho.
The glowy green eyes and the 'humans can become demons' thing actually fit in perfectly with a plot bunny cavorting in my head. Way back in October I wondered how Dean could turn into a demon, either because of the deal or some other circumstance that not even the demons could've foreseen. I didn't want to give him yellow eyes (it's been done), or red (that's CRD territory), and black is too common, so intensifying his natural eye color seemed best.
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I like the details of your plot bunny. Don't forget that the djinn had electric blue eyes. :) Intensifying Dean's nature eye color seems fitting somehow (you know the cliche saying about eyes being the window to the soul). An unnatural electric green would be very creepy.
A small part of me wants to see demon!Dean again. He'd have such a smart mouth. I'd love to see him dress someone like Bobby or Sam down.
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That's the shot from Skin. It seems to be the same orientation. Comparing it with a cap from Mystery Spot:
http://www.supernatural.tv/gallery2/s3/mysteryspot/wmplayer%202008-02-15%2018-52-36-95.jpg
yeah, it's the same one.
But that begs the question, why did it show up green? It's easy enough to preserve the original, keep them silver. If they wanted us to know it was a shapeshifter, they would've kept them silver, since we're familiar with 'shifters as having flaring silver eyes. At first I thought it was the the darkness around it, it just looked green. But I examined the cap more closely in Paint, and the eyes are definitely green. I have HDTV, so on my TV it defintely appeared a freaky glowy green. Still, I dunno, I'd have to ask the graphic designers of the show if they did anything to the shot.
But as it is, there's nothing to deter me from thinking that it was Dean, or a hint as to what he'd become. To be poetic, the strength of hellfire burns through him, filtered from the world only by his eyes. But unnatural as it is, it shows he's still Dean...he doesn't have the yellow/red/black of the demons we've seen. Yellow and red signify demonicness in the show, green is calmer, signifies life. So in this context, Dean has mastered the fires of hell, taken their power, but is still himself.
And I like to think Dean would pwn all the demons and become Lord of Hell or something. XD It's destructive, transformative power burns through him, but does not control him...*he* controls *it*. That's pure fangirling tho. :P
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The two images are definitely the same (it's Dean!), and the eyes in the "Mystery Spot" cap have definitely been doctored to appear green. No doubt about it.
Very cool. And, yes, WHY!? *ponders*
Gah. I have nothing beyond conspiracy theories involving new demons or the yet-to-be seen force of "good" I hope appears one day.
However, your idea is excellent. A beautiful theory that would lend itself to a great fic. I like the idea of Hell sort of superconcentrating Dean (lol, sorry if I just mangled your idea). Him emerging as a new version of himself is nice, like fire-forged and heat-strengthened metal. This reminds me of phoenix symbolism and the cyclic rebirth from flame and ash. Would new!Dean live forever?
Dean would pwn all the demons and become Lord of Hell
LOL! Dean would totally take control. All the female demons would love him and all the male demons would want to be him, leaving Sam to be annoyed in the corner XD!
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Also, I've friended you. Hope you don't mind, I just love this meta thing we have! all over one little screencap! XD
I like the idea of Hell sort of superconcentrating Dean...Him emerging as a new version of himself is nice, like fire-forged and heat-strengthened metal. This reminds me of phoenix symbolism and the cyclic rebirth from flame and ash.
Yes! That's spot on! New, powerful, radically different, yet still recognizably Dean! The phoenix metaphor is perfect, especially given that the Hero's Journey is a common theme in SPN. In myth, the hero must often journey to somewhere dark and dangerous and mystical, like the underworld, to find a weapon or advice or whatever, to be able to continue his quest. Undergoing some challenge or battle once there is part of it to prove himself worthy. It fits in quite well with the overall themes of SPN. And yeah, Dean would totally live forever! :)
Also, I was just at the SPN cinemtography comm and refreshed my memory on the color meanings. Green signifies free will, choice. That seems to tie in nicely. Dean is choosing to go to hell in order to bring his brother back to life. But in hell, perhaps it means that he managed to make the choice between forgetting and becoming demonic, and holding on to his humanity. Perhaps many of the damned just can't deal with the pain and repress everything they were before in an attempt to deal with what they've done. But many of them are probably there because of their own flaws and mistakes and greed. They have no excuse, it's all on them. They let the fire in, welcome the burning away of everything they were because they just can't face it anymore. But Dean did it for his brother, it was done out of love. That connection to Sam, that strength and purity of feeling, would be what grounds him, lets him fight the demons and the fire and makes him stronger. Instead of it destroying him, he takes it's power for his own, making him different from the others that might fight their way out.
I think the demons really seem to want him for some reason. In one of the clips they have for 3.12, the possessed agent guy goes straight for Dean, shoots him in the shoulder. Maybe they just want him outta the picture so they can focus on Sam, but maybe not. Perhaps they want Dean down in hell ASAP, and not just to torture...perhaps to turn to their side? I like to think he's a great hunter, well known among certain circles. And he's also killed two fairly powerful demons (Azazel and the one from 3.09). Anyone smart would want Dean Winchester on their side. I'm reaching somewhat for the next bit..in 3.01, it looks like Lust went straight for Dean to try and bring him down, while Pride and the others chatted up Sam. In 'Sin City'...Casey really seemed to want to connect with him. (actually, sardonicsmiley wrote an entry that started the whole plot bunny...the gist was that the demons were trying to get Dean as their leader). And going back to the finale, why argue him down to only one year? Yes, it's for more drama in the show, but I'm trying to analyse from within the SPN-world. Why does Dean have a "gutter soul"? Did Azazel leave a mark on his soul when resurrecting him in IMToD? That's a different plot bunny tho. XP
Indeed, as far as we know he just has to go to hell, not stay there. I think it would be a daring and interesting twist if the thing isn't to break the deal, but fulfill the letter of it and be able to get out. It would fit right in with the hero's journey thing. Perhaps they should be looking for a spell or ritual that safegaurds a person's soul/mind when in hell, or allows them to make a portal or passageway back to Earth.
Hey, do you think some of this would fit in on spn_heavymeta? It seems to have become my pet theory. :) Sorry if I've nattered on too long. :P
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The only HD caps I know of are made by bluebear_74. "MS" caps aren't up yet. Links to her LJ page and her gallery found here:
http://community.livejournal.com/spnematography/634.html
IMHO, those eye have been colored green. If it was just a byproduct of only the image being darkened, the eyes would look grey-ish.
Also, I've friended you. Hope you don't mind, I just love this meta thing we have! all over one little screencap! XD
I friended you back! Meta-ing is fun, isn't it? *dances*
especially given that the Hero's Journey is a common theme in SPN
Oo! Have you read kentawolf's series of meta on the Campbell's stuff?
But many of them are probably there because of their own flaws and mistakes and greed.
*nods* Canon doesn't contradict what you're saying. Note the witches in "MM" and how they damned themselves to Hell for personal gain. Knowing why and under what circumstances Ruby pledged herself to Tammi!demon 500 years ago would be an interesting test for your idea, being that Ruby is apparently a demon who retains some of humanity (or at least her human recollections). Presumably this means she has held onto parts of her original self like you hope green-eye demon!Dean would.
I think the demons really seem to want him for some reason.
I was just working on a Sam and Dean meta that has a part about why (I think) Azazel and Meg and were gunning for Dean. Matching brains. Yay! :)
Yes, for sure, it's curious that a lot of demons have taken the time to specifically target Dean, to mock him, try to wear him down. From a narrative standpoint you could argue that the bad guys had to monologue at *someone*, but in some cases it could've easily have been Sam ("Devil's Trap"). Why bother with Dean when Sam, the golden trophy, is right there? Psst ... because Dean is IMPORTANT.
I think it would be a daring and interesting twist if the thing isn't to break the deal, but fulfill the letter of it and be able to get out. It would fit right in with the hero's journey thing. Perhaps they should be looking for a spell or ritual that safegaurds a person's soul/mind when in hell, or allows them to make a portal or passageway back to Earth.
Awesome idea! And, yes, it would fit into the Hero's Journey ... the belly of the whale part (I think).
Hey, do you think some of this would fit in on spn_heavymeta?
Yes, I definitely do. You have a thesis based on screencap observations with some canon evidence that doesn't contradict what you're saying. Then you have the tie into the Hero's Journey and Krikpe and JP supporting that by saying Campbell's work has been an integral part of the construction of the series. Voila, instant meta! :)
You might also consider posting it at spnematography as it perfectly satisfies the 3x11 episode prompt for "The Visual Story at a Glance" (basically take a screencap or two or a hundred and use it/them as a jumping off point for a meta about an episode).
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I'm definitely looking forward to your meta regarding Dean. Reminds me of what I talked over with sardonicsmiley. And I do think I've read kentawolf's stuff, I remember getting the hero's journey stuff from a meta linking it with SPN.
Geez, I have *yet another* idea! One of the interpretations of the Fall of Lucifer is not that he rebelled and wanted to be more powerful than God, but that he was the only angel that could withstand to be seperated from Heaven. So maybe Dean has to make this journey to preserve cosmic balance? I had more, but I was distracted when I went to wikipedia to check by this: In the modern occultism of Madeline Montalban...an obvious appropriation of Christian soteriology, it is stated that it is Lucifer's destiny to incarnate in human form at certain key times in world history as a savior and redeemer for humanity.
!!!!! I bolded the part that really caught my eye, because one aspect of my plot bunny said almsot exactly the same thing! Dean=Lucifer! OMFG!!! I'm so excited I could explode! !!!!! (more punctuation, b/c I can't be articulate right now).
Okay, I'm calmer now. I'm definitely gonna work on an analysis, but later, cuz I have tests this week. Gonna divide into two parts tho: the more normal meta-analysis, and my further twisting/stretching/aw-hell-I'm making-origami-outta-it of canon. I'll be sure to quote you, you really jumpstarted my brain! :D
And somehow, from just ONE screencap, we have concluded that Dean is the savior of humanity! In going to hell he will keep the cosmic balance and save humanity...oh hey, that sounds familar! XP
It's an obscure interpretation, but with Kripke...who the hell knows.
Also, I recommend Timothy Beal's "Religion and its Monsters". Very interesting read. I just started it, but I'm loving the finding of the monstrous in the divine, and the divine monsters...Dean would be one that could succeed in defeating the monster by eating it, taking it within himself...
I'm gonna have to go back and reread the thread, there's so much here! I'm amazed, all this from one curious little shot!
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LOL! But the whole point of fandom is to be obsessive. :D
I'm definitely looking forward to your meta regarding Dean.
It's a meta about Sam and Dean (as they all tend to be; Sam--the attention hog--always creeps into my Dean meta ... gah). It's a spin off of a previous meta from 3x02.
http://bowtrunckle.livejournal.com/23564.html#cutid1
One of the interpretations of the Fall of Lucifer is not that he rebelled and wanted to be more powerful than God, but that he was the only angel that could withstand to be seperated from Heaven.
I recall reading something about that. Lucifer was God's most loyal angel. I actually like this (it's more poetic), but I'm always a sucker for the "good in the bad" interpretation.
Lucifer's destiny to incarnate in human form at certain key times in world history as a savior and redeemer for humanity.
:) Remember Casey!demon's words in "Sin City"? Some demons believe that Lucifer will yet appear ... sort of like the parallel to the second coming of Christ. *show love*
Also, I recommend Timothy Beal's "Religion and its Monsters".
Thank you. I'm always interested in recs. :) *goggles*
I'm amazed, all this from one curious little shot!
*glee* Yay, meta. I'm glad you got so much inspiration from the green-eyed screencap. I look forward to reading your thoughts! :)
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Except that I watched the parts of Heart where Madison and that other dude were transformed, and I noticed that their lenses were more elliptical than round. The roundness of the lense is more compatible with the roundness of shapeshifter eyes.
I'm confuzzled. o.o
Also, I read a comment at YouTube where someone wondered if it might be the dude "rising in the west", or whatever.
Sorry to butt in on your conversation, btw, but I followed the link over at Refur's LJ, and decided to post here instead of there. :p
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Who knows? Well, aside from Kripke and the writers. Maybe Dean *is* the dude in the west. Wouldn't that be a mindfuck?
Of course, it probably doesn't mean anything, given that the montage never actually happened and was essentially a construct created by the Trickster. It's fun to ponder tho. :)
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Also, the rest of the overlay clips from that montage are from previous episodes, so it would make sense that the green-eyed Dean shot was also recycled.
it probably doesn't mean anything, given that the montage never actually happened and was essentially a construct created by the Trickster.
I beg to differ. *grins* The green-eye overlay didn't have to be in there. The whole purpose of the montage was to:
1. show Sam's emotional transition
2. show that time passed
3. convey important stuff relevant to the story through some exposition (Bobby's phone call) but MOSTLY visuals.
All of that could've been done without the green eye image. Because of the condensed nature of a montage, all extraneous junk needs to be filtered out as to not overwhelm the audience so clips are picked carefully. Because the audience also needs to infer an order of events and/or make logical links between things, images are presented with even more care (their order, if they overlap or not etc.).
So ... I think that image is important. And I think it's purpose slide it into 3# above. What exactly it means is another thing for a meta onto itself. *nudges* :)
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