Fluffy White Feathers and Divine Eyes: Hunters and the Absentee Higher Power

[bowtrunckle]

Meta-ish blabber lurks below the cut.

Wow, it’s been a long time since I’ve posted meta. First I want to say that

Comments

[yasminke]

That was very interesting, and I'll be passing it on to a friend who is pondering the exact topic.

Just one and a half nits: Samuel, the Angel of Death ... .

Nah: Samuel was the prophet who anointed the first kings of Israel. You meant Samael, who is often referred to as the Angel of Death (although Jewish tradition has more than one).

[bowtrunckle]

Gah. Typos will be the end of me. Thank you for pointing this out. Will fix. :)

[yasminke]

Thought I better handle it before Samael himself entered into the discussion; he's very touchy about such confusions.

[bowtrunckle]

I'd hate to be on the receiving end of Sam wrath.

I LOVE your icon. If you don't mind me asking, where did you get it?

[yasminke]

I'd hate to be on the receiving end of Sam wrath.
Hmmm, are you proposing that Sam=Samael?

The icon is by disadulation, via the wga_supporters community.

[bowtrunckle]

Thanks for the links.

are you proposing that Sam=Samael?

Erm ...

http://bowtrunckle.livejournal.com/22907.html#cutid1

(pssst ... near the bottom).

[yasminke]

I read it, thanks. Took me a couple of passes as I'm not in a "thinky" frame of mind right now.

I like your thoughts. Just to throw something out there which can be undone at the whim of a television producer: I don't think Samael would be reincarnated. The big wigs -- according to a melding of your hierarchy and what I know of Jewish-demon hierarchy are all YEDs -- Satan (sometimes equated with Samael, sometimes not), those who went with him, and those who fell in the Book of Enoch are immortal. At least until a Winchester gets a hold of them with a Colt. Also, if Sam were Samael, they'd have attracted more prostrating and reverence, IMO. He's scarier and older than Azazel, and never caught by an angel.

Perhaps Sam isn't 100% Winchester, but a mixture of Sam, Azazel (whose blood courses through him, and EW!) and Samael?

[bowtrunckle]

Sorry this took so long for me to reply. Life got a little busy and LJ was back burnered.

All excellent points. I'm glad there are people such as yourself who seem to have a deep knowledge of these things. :)

The big wigs ... are all YEDs

Really? There are more confirmed YEDs running around? Oo.

Perhaps Sam isn't 100% Winchester, but a mixture of Sam, Azazel and Samael?*nods* I like that Kripke and the other writers tend to mix and match ideas from religions/folklore of different cultures and then (usually) twist it slightly. It makes predicting creature/demon-mytharc reveals a challenge because it's never certain which source they're drawing from (or if it's just an idea that's materialized in the writer's room) and how they're going to respin it. Likely literal interpretations of religious texts and/or demonic associations, which vary to some degree anyway, aren't the way to go. I agree with you, the "SPN Truth" is probably more of a mixture of all of the above with an added twist. However, it's still fun to draw

[yasminke]

RL can be so inconsiderate, no?

Really? There are more confirmed YEDs running around? Oo.

Confirmed-shmonfirmed. We (in Australia) haven't even seen the Christmas one yet, so I don't know about anyone else showing up or spouting off (dis)information. I was only going by what I know of Azazel and what the Cross-roads demon said, plus your theory. If the CRD is working for someone (other than Azazel, since that someone is still around), s/he must be in a higher echelon than she was. Plus, wars, apocalypse, etc. require a hierarchy. Too many foot soldiers with no commanders -- not a good battle plan.

Having said that, doesn't Ruby have black eyes? Which makes her a little peon with a BIG knife.

I hope they're not literal interpretations of religious texts. They're more inconsistent than Hollywood. You should see what the early Kabbalists did with demonology. It would make people's heads spin. ;)

[bowtrunckle]

We (in Australia) haven't even seen the Christmas one yet

*gasp* Avoiding spoilers (if you don't subscribe to them) must be hard, esp. with the massive flail post-US episode airings on LJ. But you guys just got Jensen down there, answering silly questions on TV so at least that's something. :)

Having said that, doesn't Ruby have black eyes? Which makes her a little peon with a BIG knife.

Yeah for sure. I wonder where she got that knife of hers and how many other demons she has double crossed in the last 500 years. The fact that Tammi!demon and the RED expressed much distain for her, it's clear she's got a number of enemies in high places. Oh, how I love characters who stir the pot.

[yasminke]

We saw the Christmas episode this week, right after Jensen's appearance on Good News Week (at least they had some inkling about the show -- other interviewers, not so much). As for avoiding spoilers -- it can be really hard but not like it was last year when we saw the shows months after you all did.

Let's hope Ruby has many enemies is really high places. It will make Sam's dealings with her rather precarious.

Pot stirrers are great! They're there to put some spice in the show. Well, if they're drawn well anyway.

[bowtrunckle]

I'm so sorry! I just realized I might've spoiled you for an episode that has yet to air in Australia (as I sat there talking about spoilers *headdesk*). My sincerest apologies.

[yasminke]

Oy, please don't worry. It went WHOOSH right over my head if you did.

[bowtrunckle]

Don't go back and reread what I wrote just in case (I can't edit it anymore). I have to learn to think before I write. Again, so sorry.

[yasminke]

Bubele, I read it just before I answered your last one and it is so slight, you *really* needn't worry.

Seriously. Now go forth and contemplate more on demonic hierarchies and how they relate to apocalyptic/eschatological television.