why, then, was Kara shown as having a very real and vivid internal life in Season 4?
I'm with you - still angry about the end, and angriest about Kara's fate. I don't understand how Ron could go so wrong with his main characters - the first ones he'd ever conceived for the series, if we are to believe his own account. How sloppy.
I understand running out of time, and biting more than one can chew, but this was choking on a colossal scale. He had two years to write this resolution. I can't believe he couldn't come up with something at least half as good as any of the fans who wrote their own version of the characters' endings. He could've swallowed his pride and asked someone on his writing staff to help craft this, for crying out loud! This was worse than bad. This was self-contradictory and puerile and - even though I don't believe a show should cater to its fans - the equivalent of spitting in fans' eyes. We hoped for an epic conclusion, and instead we got epic fail.
Whether Ron intended it this way or not, I take Kara's end to mean: I didn't care enough to pay attention to the story we were telling all along. I didn't care enough to think this through and write an ending that went beyond connecting the dots (yeah, anyone can do that in a half-assed manner) to being consistent and satisfying and, y'know, complex. In the beginning RDM prided himself on writing a show that didn't tell you what to think. I don't know why he thought a reductive, simplistic ending would be satisfying to this audience. It was insulting to everyone's intelligence to be told, basically, "oh, just squint a little bit and pretend it all works. The mytharcs you cared about? We never figured out what they were about." I'm being a little over-dramatic now (and I can't remember where I first read this analogy or what it was in reference to), but this is worse than finding out the tooth fairy doesn't exist. This is him unmasking the tooth fairy, and taking back all the money she left you and the rest of your piggy bank besides.
/bitter /ragey <-- (except it's not actually the end because I can't get over my rage. You know what I'm truly mad about? I used to drift off to sleep most nights conjuring up pilot!stories. Just making up romantic moments between Kara and Lee, that put me in a happy place before sleep... and sometimes the stories even turned into fic. I can't do that any more, because thinking of pilots makes me angry. I want that back. I want them back.)
but this is worse than finding out the tooth fairy doesn't exist. This is him unmasking the tooth fairy, and taking back all the money she left you and the rest of your piggy bank besides. Hee! This made me laugh out loud. ILU, Indi! You should totally rant more often. :-)
I shouldn't laugh. I know it hurts. I can't let them take my version of pilots away from me or my ability to write or make vids about them. That does make me sad and angry and there is a part of me that just refuses. NO. I will figure out a way to still write and vid them if it kills me. Once upon a time RDM came up with a girl named Kara Thrace. He forgot who she really was (thought she was him) but I haven't. She was stubborn and angry and never gave up. And now I'm left with a little bit of her in me. I will figure this out. Watching this show brought me such wonderful gifts and hell, I'm keeping 'em. The tooth fairy can't renege. I'm keeping my bank, the money, and the magic too. Oh yes, I am dammit!
I wasn't so strong when I cried looking at a draft of my last story days after the finale because I didn't think I knew Kara well enough to write her anymore. I wasn't so strong these past two weeks and a zillion drafts and five betas later to get my current WIP out which is due tomorrow. Writing these characters used to be effortless to me. And I wasn't so strong when I angsted to one of my betas that the reason I was holding on to so many WIPs was because I didn't feel I could write anything new about BSG (and still haven't) and by holding on to my WIPs, I was holding on to writing itself. Because I was afraid of losing it. I don't know if that's a direct result of the finale or the show ending or what. And it doesn't matter. I've been writing all my life. I'm in love with vidding. And nobody's 45 minutes is going to take those things away from me. I'm not that strong. I'm just stubborn and just tired. And obviously still a little angry. Sigh.
Yeah, but you still DID it in the end. And you still determinedly TRY to hang on to the positive. That's strength. Me, I just give in to the anger and rage, but then I'm not trying to create anything, nor have I got access to your capacity for AU imagination. I was always very canon-focussed in my investment in the show.
Aww! Thanks for such kind words. Friends are so nice. Yes, I am whipping fic into shape. But I've done my share of angsting and ranting as well. Everyone finds their own way to cope and does different things at different times.
As for AU-verses? I've found these past several weeks it's easier to go AU when you know which canon you are actually jumping off from. When canon goes AU, which the finale sorta did, it's hard to know what to do with that. All I wanted was for the ending to make sense to me and it didn't completely do that. So I was invested at least to that extent.
Sigh. I say feel that rage and let it run its course if it needs to. Obviously, you are not alone and we have a right to be angry. And angry for a while.
I don't understand how Ron could go so wrong with his main characters - the first ones he'd ever conceived for the series, if we are to believe his own account. How sloppy. Yeah, it's kind of mindblowing. I don't know any author (of books) who could drift from their original characters so completely.
He had two years to write this resolution. I can't believe he couldn't come up with something at least half as good as any of the fans who wrote their own version of the characters' endings. He could've swallowed his pride and asked someone on his writing staff to help craft this, for crying out loud! I absolutely agree. It's transparently obvious that he had no real idea what to do with the ending and I believe that deep down inside him he KNOWS he fucked up. But Ron's been conditioned into always putting a positive spin on things and handwaving flaws in his own work by all those hours spent on podcasts. He thinks it's no big deal if you look at the finished product after and think 'huh, that didn't really work'. I believe that's been damaging to his creative output--I really do. It fed his ego and obviously his ego held him back from getting critical input from others.
And oh, I just agree so UTTERLY and COMPLETELY with the rest of your comment as well. I would LOL at the tooth fairy analogy, but it's too damn accurate to be amusing.
except it's not actually the end because I can't get over my rage. I know. It just never lessens. :(
And oh, my heart breaks for you with the fic. I used to put myself to sleep the same way, and now I lie awake at night angry instead--even in a hut on a lake in Thailand, I was staring at the ceiling thinking 'how could he do that?'
We need some kind of BSG recovery process to reclaiming our characters... for those of us who can't just block the finale out as easily as some lucky fans can. For those of us who feel betrayed at a deeply personal level.
Yeah, I don't know what that process is. :(
You know what kills me? I never got to vid pilots properly. At first I felt I should wait to see how their story unfolded before making my 'big' vid of them, and then I saw the cracks in the story and got creatively frozen anyway, but I hung on thinking 'maybe the ending, which has got to be epic, will give me something I can vid'. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAA. Unless I want to make a BIRD documentary, it was pants. And now I'm so angry and heartbroken I'll never vid them.
Oh, Boppy. *hugs* I am so sad about your lost pilots vid. Maybe I will hold on to hope against hope that you can come back to them some day and make them a beautiful "what might have been" vid. Because the beauty was there, and it isn't lost because RDM had a failure of imagination. I think maybe down the road we'll be able to look at S1 and S2 pilots and not be totally rageful. I hope!
Interesting idea that Ron's podcasts spoiled him for constructive criticism. I really, really hope that some of the disappointment - and the very valid reasons why - filtered through to him. I thought long and hard about posting to Skiffy, but the atmosphere over there is just so poisonous, plus his wife is the gatekeeper and I just don't trust her read on these things. (She dislikes Starbuck, what more can I say?) But I'll never know if he heard and took these things to heart, because I can't bring myself to watch another RDM production.
the beauty was there, and it isn't lost because RDM had a failure of imagination Intellectually I know that, but I'm finding it hard to find that place of zen emotionally. I hope one day to find a way, but ... honestly, it's pretty tough territory for me because BSG and pilots meant a lot to me at a very personal level and it's hard to revisit that stuff with the ending they gave it.
I really, really hope that some of the disappointment - and the very valid reasons why - filtered through to him. I hope so too, I really really do. But I don't know... I don't think Ron has a high opinion of the online fandom and I doubt he would pay much attention to their thoughts. I think he quite enjoys pissing fans off so he'd just read it through that lens. Also, I get the feeling that Ron's got really used to his work having faults but that he feels that it is 'great' despite that. That's the problem--he may hear the crit but not really reflect on it.
I'm with you - still angry about the end, and angriest about Kara's fate. I don't understand how Ron could go so wrong with his main characters - the first ones he'd ever conceived for the series, if we are to believe his own account. How sloppy.
I understand running out of time, and biting more than one can chew, but this was choking on a colossal scale. He had two years to write this resolution. I can't believe he couldn't come up with something at least half as good as any of the fans who wrote their own version of the characters' endings. He could've swallowed his pride and asked someone on his writing staff to help craft this, for crying out loud! This was worse than bad. This was self-contradictory and puerile and - even though I don't believe a show should cater to its fans - the equivalent of spitting in fans' eyes. We hoped for an epic conclusion, and instead we got epic fail.
Whether Ron intended it this way or not, I take Kara's end to mean: I didn't care enough to pay attention to the story we were telling all along. I didn't care enough to think this through and write an ending that went beyond connecting the dots (yeah, anyone can do that in a half-assed manner) to being consistent and satisfying and, y'know, complex. In the beginning RDM prided himself on writing a show that didn't tell you what to think. I don't know why he thought a reductive, simplistic ending would be satisfying to this audience. It was insulting to everyone's intelligence to be told, basically, "oh, just squint a little bit and pretend it all works. The mytharcs you cared about? We never figured out what they were about." I'm being a little over-dramatic now (and I can't remember where I first read this analogy or what it was in reference to), but this is worse than finding out the tooth fairy doesn't exist. This is him unmasking the tooth fairy, and taking back all the money she left you and the rest of your piggy bank besides.
/bitter /ragey <-- (except it's not actually the end because I can't get over my rage. You know what I'm truly mad about? I used to drift off to sleep most nights conjuring up pilot!stories. Just making up romantic moments between Kara and Lee, that put me in a happy place before sleep... and sometimes the stories even turned into fic. I can't do that any more, because thinking of pilots makes me angry. I want that back. I want them back.)
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And a whole lot of word here too, to Boppy and to Mariks' comment as well!
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Hee! This made me laugh out loud. ILU, Indi! You should totally rant more often. :-)
I shouldn't laugh. I know it hurts. I can't let them take my version of pilots away from me or my ability to write or make vids about them. That does make me sad and angry and there is a part of me that just refuses. NO. I will figure out a way to still write and vid them if it kills me. Once upon a time RDM came up with a girl named Kara Thrace. He forgot who she really was (thought she was him) but I haven't. She was stubborn and angry and never gave up. And now I'm left with a little bit of her in me. I will figure this out. Watching this show brought me such wonderful gifts and hell, I'm keeping 'em. The tooth fairy can't renege. I'm keeping my bank, the money, and the magic too. Oh yes, I am dammit!
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As for AU-verses? I've found these past several weeks it's easier to go AU when you know which canon you are actually jumping off from. When canon goes AU, which the finale sorta did, it's hard to know what to do with that. All I wanted was for the ending to make sense to me and it didn't completely do that. So I was invested at least to that extent.
Sigh. I say feel that rage and let it run its course if it needs to. Obviously, you are not alone and we have a right to be angry. And angry for a while.
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Yeah, it's kind of mindblowing. I don't know any author (of books) who could drift from their original characters so completely.
He had two years to write this resolution. I can't believe he couldn't come up with something at least half as good as any of the fans who wrote their own version of the characters' endings. He could've swallowed his pride and asked someone on his writing staff to help craft this, for crying out loud!
I absolutely agree. It's transparently obvious that he had no real idea what to do with the ending and I believe that deep down inside him he KNOWS he fucked up. But Ron's been conditioned into always putting a positive spin on things and handwaving flaws in his own work by all those hours spent on podcasts. He thinks it's no big deal if you look at the finished product after and think 'huh, that didn't really work'. I believe that's been damaging to his creative output--I really do. It fed his ego and obviously his ego held him back from getting critical input from others.
And oh, I just agree so UTTERLY and COMPLETELY with the rest of your comment as well. I would LOL at the tooth fairy analogy, but it's too damn accurate to be amusing.
except it's not actually the end because I can't get over my rage.
I know. It just never lessens. :(
And oh, my heart breaks for you with the fic. I used to put myself to sleep the same way, and now I lie awake at night angry instead--even in a hut on a lake in Thailand, I was staring at the ceiling thinking 'how could he do that?'
We need some kind of BSG recovery process to reclaiming our characters... for those of us who can't just block the finale out as easily as some lucky fans can. For those of us who feel betrayed at a deeply personal level.
Yeah, I don't know what that process is. :(
You know what kills me? I never got to vid pilots properly. At first I felt I should wait to see how their story unfolded before making my 'big' vid of them, and then I saw the cracks in the story and got creatively frozen anyway, but I hung on thinking 'maybe the ending, which has got to be epic, will give me something I can vid'. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAA. Unless I want to make a BIRD documentary, it was pants. And now I'm so angry and heartbroken I'll never vid them.
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Interesting idea that Ron's podcasts spoiled him for constructive criticism. I really, really hope that some of the disappointment - and the very valid reasons why - filtered through to him. I thought long and hard about posting to Skiffy, but the atmosphere over there is just so poisonous, plus his wife is the gatekeeper and I just don't trust her read on these things. (She dislikes Starbuck, what more can I say?) But I'll never know if he heard and took these things to heart, because I can't bring myself to watch another RDM production.
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Intellectually I know that, but I'm finding it hard to find that place of zen emotionally. I hope one day to find a way, but ... honestly, it's pretty tough territory for me because BSG and pilots meant a lot to me at a very personal level and it's hard to revisit that stuff with the ending they gave it.
I really, really hope that some of the disappointment - and the very valid reasons why - filtered through to him.
I hope so too, I really really do. But I don't know... I don't think Ron has a high opinion of the online fandom and I doubt he would pay much attention to their thoughts. I think he quite enjoys pissing fans off so he'd just read it through that lens. Also, I get the feeling that Ron's got really used to his work having faults but that he feels that it is 'great' despite that. That's the problem--he may hear the crit but not really reflect on it.
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