to say she has always been his angel could be interpreted as an implication that Lee loved some imaginary fairy and never the real complex fucked up Kara Thrace Yeah, exactly. And while I know that Jamie was not meaning to reduce her to one thing--he made a point of explaining that Kara was many things to Lee--I feel like it's just another instance of the propagation of Ron's vision of Kara as angel, as construct. I also don't like the implication that that's somehow 'amazing' or groundbreaking. It's a really simplistic copout to me: instead of showing a real, complicacted messy individual, or actually tackling some--SHOCK!--science fiction to explain how Kara could have appeared to die and then return, they get to handwave everything we saw of Kara from Maelstrom on as her in angel form.
He didn’t know she wasn’t real, for fuck’s sake! RIGHT. It's not like he had known but had been struggling to come to terms with it and then finally managed to do so. In fact, you could say that he was actively in denial. Based on their conversation in 4.18, he was so in love with Kara that he was just happy to have her in any form, he really didn't want to engage with the issue of her being 'dead'. He said it wasn't important. Well, it WAS when she DISAPPEARED!
Just as it’s not Kara who disappeared so abruptly without even saying goodbye. I haven't really thought of it from that side... I guess the only way it makes any sense to me is if Kara had no choice in the matter, and that totally guts me. But I don't believe she actively did it to him, I really don't. I believe that if she knew she was leaving, she would have had more to say to him.
he even told Baltar the only thing she was sure of was that she wasn’t a frakking angel. The girl abhorred the very idea… she’s been miserable since Leoben started to brainwash her about her destiny being bigger than herself. I know!! It's absolutely TERRIBLE. When I heard that Jamie said that I felt sick for Kara all over again. I know he was speaking purely from Lee's character journey... but that's half the problem. The character journeys CONFLICT. Surely even Katee thinks that Kara was more than just a damn angel in season 4? Hell, she was still given so much difficult material to deal with. And Kara was at war with the idea constantly. So she was basically tortured after death? Trapped in a consciousness she'd rather not inhabit? That's TERRIBLE. And I don't think the one thing she wanted was to be remembered... I have never seen anything in Kara's character that wanted to be publicly acknowledged as a hero, remembered. She was always all 'frak you' about her image. And in terms of being remembered by Lee, well I don't buy that she'd ever be in doubt about that (for better or worse!).
he reduced Lee to a frakwit of a leader who’s against all kinds of technology in a potentially lethally dangerous new world and puts forward an idea to spread out instead of sticking together, thus condemning all his people to becoming merely a part of genetic material. Ahh, you thereby sum up the crux of my Number One issue with the finale. I think I saw the cracks for this in the pompous and hand-wave-y speech they had Lee give in 4.10 when they hooked up with the Cylons. Yes, everyone pointed out that they just had to move the plot forward and there wasn't time for details, but I think it opened the door to having Lee-as-leader voice whatever-the-fuck-bullshit RDM felt like spewing out from then on. Who knows if he'd even thought up the finale solution yet? Was the idea to spread out planned from the start? Really?! REALLY?!
Jamie's a well-read man. He's read 'Civilisation or 'Guns, Germs and Steel' (I forget which but either would do in terms of getting a clue). Could HE not say something to RDM about this nonsense?! Someone seriously needs to put the hard questions about survival to RDM. If he was going to play it as 'the Colonials all get absorbed into New Earth's genetic landscape' then he should have at least painted that as a DARK ending, not a frakking pastoral waltz through the meadows...
I feel like it's just another instance of the propagation of Ron's vision of Kara as angel, as construct. I also don't like the implication that that's somehow 'amazing' or groundbreaking.
That’s why I can’t make myself watch that interview, even though I love Jamie to bits and like seeing him making an effort to speak French, which is kind of adorable.
In fact, you could say that he was actively in denial. Based on their conversation in 4.18, he was so in love with Kara that he was just happy to have her in any form, he really didn't want to engage with the issue of her being 'dead'.
Yep. But as I said elsewhere, that episode was written by Michael Taylor who’s the father of UB and one of the biggest K/L shippers among the crew. I wish he wrote the finale as well. After the finale aired RDM said that L/K’s last scene in the in Islanded was supposed to give us a clue as to what Kara really was somehow, which is such nonsense I have to words… Most of the fans saw that scene as one of the most beautiful moments of trust and an unspoken promise of Kara and Lee to give each other another chance and try to make things right. And it seems like Jamie and Katee had no idea what was awaiting Lee and Kara in the finale two episodes when they filmed it. But what can I say… Moore’s full of shit and his arrogance and conviction in his rightfulness know no boundaries.
I haven't really thought of it from that side... I guess the only way it makes any sense to me is if Kara had no choice in the matter, and that totally guts me. But I don't believe she actively did it to him, I really don't. I believe that if she knew she was leaving, she would have had more to say to him.
I think she knew she was leaving from the moment she said goodbye to Anders. I can’t believe she had no choice because she had a chance to say goodbye to Sam in a proper way. Should I make a conclusion that she’s just a heartless bitch enjoying making LEE suffer? Or is it her famous luck with Lee that she never has time for HIM?!! If that’s the case and she just felt her borrowed time was up in a few seconds and had no time to react - what a fucking shame! I’d say it was either a way to screw with the fans and make their last scene together as cold as possible just for the sake of inflicting immense pain only because he can or RDM meant her abrupt disappearance to be perceived as Kara not being emotionally strong enough to tell Lee she was leaving him. Either way, it’s completely wrong and OOC at this point and cruel to both characters beyond measure. Either way I can’t accept it.
Surely even Katee thinks that Kara was more than just a damn angel in season 4? Hell, she was still given so much difficult material to deal with.
All her interviews imply that she hated what they did to her character, the fact that her ending with Lee was like NOTHING (c). And she felt betrayed in a way. Damn, she even had to improvise in her last scene with Anders just to get a feeling of closure to some extent… her “I love you” little speech wasn’t even scripted, so why can’t I care less about this frakking mess of a finale?!!
it seems like Jamie and Katee had no idea what was awaiting Lee and Kara in the finale two episodes when they filmed it. *nods* I remember how much Katee played it as Kara being totally in love with Lee. I knew then the writing would never support that, but it goes to show that even Katee didn't know at that stage they'd let K/S win out.
it was either a way to screw with the fans and make their last scene together as cold as possible just for the sake of inflicting immense pain only because he can or RDM meant her abrupt disappearance to be perceived as Kara not being emotionally strong enough to tell Lee she was leaving him I actually felt it was meant to contrast with the Kara/Sam ending so that no one was left in any doubt about which relationship was the 'true' one. I think they were fighting against Kara/Lee having more chemistry, and therefore made the scene as cold and abrupt as possible, because anything else would have outshone the K/S.
her “I love you” little speech wasn’t even scripted, so why can’t I care less about this frakking mess of a finale Arrrgh. I hadn't heard that. That just makes me angrier at RDM. How can you leave a character's closure up to the ACTOR! Frak. That's terrible. And of course Katee chose Sam over Lee... that's her personal feelings coming in. I can't blame her for that, because RDM allowed that to happen by never making it clear what Kara's feelings for Lee really were. Grr.
So she was basically tortured after death? Trapped in a consciousness she'd rather not inhabit? That's TERRIBLE.
That’s exactly what I’m saying. Her agony was infinite in real life and even after death. RDM made her a hostage of that fucking destiny thing, her connection to the Cylons… Moreover, her mother’s abuse was meant “to prepare her to accept her own destiny” which was to commit suicide as we know… so do we have to conclude that her mother’s horrible behavior was justified now?!! You know… it makes me so sick I want to slit throats and bit the living shit out of them for what they’d done to my dear Kara… I’m kind of having a Lee reaction to someone torturing Kara to death and even after death! Makes me see red!
And I don't think the one thing she wanted was to be remembered...
Oh, don’t even get me started on this!.. RDM said that he wrote that because he himself is sort of afraid to be forgotten. How’s that for a good reason for Kara’s most terrible fear of all time?! And to sweeten the pot of ridiculousness guess what he mentioned? Lee wanted “to climb the mountains and explore” after many months of his political career and the huge responsibility he’d taken for the people of the fleet because that was RDM’s own childhood dream. The guy needs medical help and perpetual ban on the writing job.
As to what Kara’s real greatest fear was, I thought I’d make a thought provoking vid about it… I even started working on it until the finale happened.
I think I saw the cracks for this in the pompous and hand-wave-y speech they had Lee give in 4.10 when they hooked up with the Cylons.
Could HE not say something to RDM about this nonsense?!
Not just Jamie, there was a whole bunch of writers working on BSG episodes. And you don’t even have to be a writer to see what pile of crap he wrote for this ending. As to the survival subject… that’s just the latest of his failures. But I could ask the same question about the people of the fleet accepting the idea of reconciliation with the Cylons. I get that US isn’t the country that suffered from attempts of genocide in WWII, which is the closest parallel with our real world, but we all know how to read some history books, right?!
Too little too late, I guess.
Someone seriously needs to put the hard questions about survival to RDM.
Ha-ha-ha. It’s had me remembering Roslin telling Billy how the leaders of the fleet must keep asking the hard questions and try to give honest answers… You know, if you think about it, the whole ‘text’ from miniseries to S3 including Razor does not support those heaps of shit he threw us in the end… his own creation could be quoted endlessly as opposed to S4 rubbish and not leave a stone of it standing.
He reminds me of George Lucas who seriously lost his marbles at the point when he decided to create the new trilogy of Star Wars, because it had no SW atmosphere, no strong narrative, no characters, no soul, no nothing. It was like an empty fancy postcard with lots of shiny artificial moving pictures in it. The only difference is that in Lucas’ case 20 years had passed between the first and second trilogies, and RDM had been working on BSG for 5 years - you wouldn’t think that a man might change that drastically. Only the feeling I have is that he’d been replaced by someone else somewhere along the way.
her mother’s abuse was meant “to prepare her to accept her own destiny” which was to commit suicide as we know… so do we have to conclude that her mother’s horrible behavior was justified now? OMG, yeah, I want to kill things!!!! That's the most disgusting thing I've ever heard. *fumes*
he wrote that because he himself is sort of afraid to be forgotten OH FUCK YOU AND YOUR FUCKING EGO, RON. IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT YOU. Man, that proves SO MUCH. Including the fact that Ron used Starbuck to live out some of his own fantasies. Man, he knows NOTHING about character integrity, either personally or in writing.
because that was RDM’s own childhood dream. The guy needs medical help and perpetual ban on the writing job. Wow. Yeah. Um, I kind of agree. He's a fantasist on an insane level, and not a writer... wow, these admissions actually make a lot of sense because they show where his decision making comes from and therefore why it makes no narrative sense. He's not concerned about his work, he's concerned about his self and he can't distinguish the two. *blinks at the crazy*
As to what Kara’s real greatest fear was, I thought I’d make a thought provoking vid about it… Ohhh! I want your vid! I have no idea what it is because I don't know Kara like that.
could ask the same question about the people of the fleet accepting the idea of reconciliation with the Cylons. Yeah, well I railed against that for so long but fandom just shouted me down for being a precious nitpicker (or something). But honestly, it was a big turn-off for me and a sign of the start of being asked to accept completely implausible plots.
He reminds me of George Lucas who seriously lost his marbles at the point when he decided to create the new trilogy of Star Wars *nods* I'm very wary of these big personality directors (and RDM became one in his own way when BSG got such good press)... their egos take over at some point and I think a bit of a cult gets built up around them where no one can criticise them the way you would normally on a writing team. I've seen it happen with a few TV writers (I think Joss is one of them), and I just think it's a terrible thing.
Yeah, well I railed against that for so long but fandom just shouted me down for being a precious nitpicker (or something). But honestly, it was a big turn-off for me and a sign of the start of being asked to accept completely implausible plots.
I went through that with the mutiny arc...and of course I was wrong to complain during that because Lee and Kara were back together and making out, so WTF was my problem??? Why couldn't I just go along with the vilification of the non-Cylon paired off characters and just bask in the mindless gunporn and Adama hard-onage by the writers???
Because in the end, the Human race got a big FU, the Cylons NEVER owned up to their responsibility for what happened, Adama and Roslin did nothing but use up screentime and abandon everybody, and Lee and Kara??? NOTHING.
So what was the point of ANY of Lee and Kara's scenes in S4??? To flip us the bird for giving a frak about them. That's IT.
Yup. *nods* Ron got the last laugh. Look... I think it was understandable that people's hopes surged at times during Season 4, because we all got used to getting excited about crumbs. But in the mutiny, I remember feeling discomforted that to enjoy my ship I had to ignore the context because I really felt a frak-load more sympathetic to the hundreds of nameless civilians who backed the mutiny. Because, damn, the Adama-Roslin empire was an unmoveable autocracy, and hooking up with the Cylons with LITTLE or NO justification (PR > guns) would piss me off too.
Yeah, I WANTED to cheer for Lee and Kara...but Gods, the writers had them risking their lives for a character that had become a total jackass. LOL. And whether the intent was to be more gray about who was right or wrong, the gunporn love in the final finished story spoke for itself as to what the story ended up really being about. :(
It's like if Superman became a sullen alcoholic that beat up women and threw old people over skyscrapers...YEAH, he's still the "Man of Steel"...but if he's doing that he's NOT a HERO anymore. And you just can't ignore something like that for long. Unfortunately, the writers thought we would.
Yeah, exactly. And while I know that Jamie was not meaning to reduce her to one thing--he made a point of explaining that Kara was many things to Lee--I feel like it's just another instance of the propagation of Ron's vision of Kara as angel, as construct. I also don't like the implication that that's somehow 'amazing' or groundbreaking. It's a really simplistic copout to me: instead of showing a real, complicacted messy individual, or actually tackling some--SHOCK!--science fiction to explain how Kara could have appeared to die and then return, they get to handwave everything we saw of Kara from Maelstrom on as her in angel form.
He didn’t know she wasn’t real, for fuck’s sake!
RIGHT. It's not like he had known but had been struggling to come to terms with it and then finally managed to do so. In fact, you could say that he was actively in denial. Based on their conversation in 4.18, he was so in love with Kara that he was just happy to have her in any form, he really didn't want to engage with the issue of her being 'dead'. He said it wasn't important. Well, it WAS when she DISAPPEARED!
Just as it’s not Kara who disappeared so abruptly without even saying goodbye.
I haven't really thought of it from that side... I guess the only way it makes any sense to me is if Kara had no choice in the matter, and that totally guts me. But I don't believe she actively did it to him, I really don't. I believe that if she knew she was leaving, she would have had more to say to him.
he even told Baltar the only thing she was sure of was that she wasn’t a frakking angel. The girl abhorred the very idea… she’s been miserable since Leoben started to brainwash her about her destiny being bigger than herself.
I know!! It's absolutely TERRIBLE. When I heard that Jamie said that I felt sick for Kara all over again. I know he was speaking purely from Lee's character journey... but that's half the problem. The character journeys CONFLICT. Surely even Katee thinks that Kara was more than just a damn angel in season 4? Hell, she was still given so much difficult material to deal with. And Kara was at war with the idea constantly. So she was basically tortured after death? Trapped in a consciousness she'd rather not inhabit? That's TERRIBLE. And I don't think the one thing she wanted was to be remembered... I have never seen anything in Kara's character that wanted to be publicly acknowledged as a hero, remembered. She was always all 'frak you' about her image. And in terms of being remembered by Lee, well I don't buy that she'd ever be in doubt about that (for better or worse!).
he reduced Lee to a frakwit of a leader who’s against all kinds of technology in a potentially lethally dangerous new world and puts forward an idea to spread out instead of sticking together, thus condemning all his people to becoming merely a part of genetic material.
Ahh, you thereby sum up the crux of my Number One issue with the finale. I think I saw the cracks for this in the pompous and hand-wave-y speech they had Lee give in 4.10 when they hooked up with the Cylons. Yes, everyone pointed out that they just had to move the plot forward and there wasn't time for details, but I think it opened the door to having Lee-as-leader voice whatever-the-fuck-bullshit RDM felt like spewing out from then on. Who knows if he'd even thought up the finale solution yet? Was the idea to spread out planned from the start? Really?! REALLY?!
Jamie's a well-read man. He's read 'Civilisation or 'Guns, Germs and Steel' (I forget which but either would do in terms of getting a clue). Could HE not say something to RDM about this nonsense?! Someone seriously needs to put the hard questions about survival to RDM. If he was going to play it as 'the Colonials all get absorbed into New Earth's genetic landscape' then he should have at least painted that as a DARK ending, not a frakking pastoral waltz through the meadows...
OMG I WILL NEVER STOP BEING ANGRY!
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That’s why I can’t make myself watch that interview, even though I love Jamie to bits and like seeing him making an effort to speak French, which is kind of adorable.
In fact, you could say that he was actively in denial. Based on their conversation in 4.18, he was so in love with Kara that he was just happy to have her in any form, he really didn't want to engage with the issue of her being 'dead'.
Yep. But as I said elsewhere, that episode was written by Michael Taylor who’s the father of UB and one of the biggest K/L shippers among the crew. I wish he wrote the finale as well.
After the finale aired RDM said that L/K’s last scene in the in Islanded was supposed to give us a clue as to what Kara really was somehow, which is such nonsense I have to words… Most of the fans saw that scene as one of the most beautiful moments of trust and an unspoken promise of Kara and Lee to give each other another chance and try to make things right. And it seems like Jamie and Katee had no idea what was awaiting Lee and Kara in the finale two episodes when they filmed it. But what can I say… Moore’s full of shit and his arrogance and conviction in his rightfulness know no boundaries.
I haven't really thought of it from that side... I guess the only way it makes any sense to me is if Kara had no choice in the matter, and that totally guts me. But I don't believe she actively did it to him, I really don't. I believe that if she knew she was leaving, she would have had more to say to him.
I think she knew she was leaving from the moment she said goodbye to Anders. I can’t believe she had no choice because she had a chance to say goodbye to Sam in a proper way. Should I make a conclusion that she’s just a heartless bitch enjoying making LEE suffer? Or is it her famous luck with Lee that she never has time for HIM?!! If that’s the case and she just felt her borrowed time was up in a few seconds and had no time to react - what a fucking shame! I’d say it was either a way to screw with the fans and make their last scene together as cold as possible just for the sake of inflicting immense pain only because he can or RDM meant her abrupt disappearance to be perceived as Kara not being emotionally strong enough to tell Lee she was leaving him. Either way, it’s completely wrong and OOC at this point and cruel to both characters beyond measure. Either way I can’t accept it.
Surely even Katee thinks that Kara was more than just a damn angel in season 4? Hell, she was still given so much difficult material to deal with.
All her interviews imply that she hated what they did to her character, the fact that her ending with Lee was like NOTHING (c). And she felt betrayed in a way. Damn, she even had to improvise in her last scene with Anders just to get a feeling of closure to some extent… her “I love you” little speech wasn’t even scripted, so why can’t I care less about this frakking mess of a finale?!!
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*nods* I remember how much Katee played it as Kara being totally in love with Lee. I knew then the writing would never support that, but it goes to show that even Katee didn't know at that stage they'd let K/S win out.
it was either a way to screw with the fans and make their last scene together as cold as possible just for the sake of inflicting immense pain only because he can or RDM meant her abrupt disappearance to be perceived as Kara not being emotionally strong enough to tell Lee she was leaving him
I actually felt it was meant to contrast with the Kara/Sam ending so that no one was left in any doubt about which relationship was the 'true' one. I think they were fighting against Kara/Lee having more chemistry, and therefore made the scene as cold and abrupt as possible, because anything else would have outshone the K/S.
her “I love you” little speech wasn’t even scripted, so why can’t I care less about this frakking mess of a finale
Arrrgh. I hadn't heard that. That just makes me angrier at RDM. How can you leave a character's closure up to the ACTOR! Frak. That's terrible. And of course Katee chose Sam over Lee... that's her personal feelings coming in. I can't blame her for that, because RDM allowed that to happen by never making it clear what Kara's feelings for Lee really were. Grr.
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That’s exactly what I’m saying. Her agony was infinite in real life and even after death. RDM made her a hostage of that fucking destiny thing, her connection to the Cylons… Moreover, her mother’s abuse was meant “to prepare her to accept her own destiny” which was to commit suicide as we know… so do we have to conclude that her mother’s horrible behavior was justified now?!! You know… it makes me so sick I want to slit throats and bit the living shit out of them for what they’d done to my dear Kara… I’m kind of having a Lee reaction to someone torturing Kara to death and even after death! Makes me see red!
And I don't think the one thing she wanted was to be remembered...
Oh, don’t even get me started on this!.. RDM said that he wrote that because he himself is sort of afraid to be forgotten. How’s that for a good reason for Kara’s most terrible fear of all time?!
And to sweeten the pot of ridiculousness guess what he mentioned? Lee wanted “to climb the mountains and explore” after many months of his political career and the huge responsibility he’d taken for the people of the fleet because that was RDM’s own childhood dream. The guy needs medical help and perpetual ban on the writing job.
As to what Kara’s real greatest fear was, I thought I’d make a thought provoking vid about it… I even started working on it until the finale happened.
I think I saw the cracks for this in the pompous and hand-wave-y speech they had Lee give in 4.10 when they hooked up with the Cylons.
Could HE not say something to RDM about this nonsense?!
Not just Jamie, there was a whole bunch of writers working on BSG episodes. And you don’t even have to be a writer to see what pile of crap he wrote for this ending. As to the survival subject… that’s just the latest of his failures. But I could ask the same question about the people of the fleet accepting the idea of reconciliation with the Cylons. I get that US isn’t the country that suffered from attempts of genocide in WWII, which is the closest parallel with our real world, but we all know how to read some history books, right?!
Too little too late, I guess.
Someone seriously needs to put the hard questions about survival to RDM.
Ha-ha-ha. It’s had me remembering Roslin telling Billy how the leaders of the fleet must keep asking the hard questions and try to give honest answers… You know, if you think about it, the whole ‘text’ from miniseries to S3 including Razor does not support those heaps of shit he threw us in the end… his own creation could be quoted endlessly as opposed to S4 rubbish and not leave a stone of it standing.
He reminds me of George Lucas who seriously lost his marbles at the point when he decided to create the new trilogy of Star Wars, because it had no SW atmosphere, no strong narrative, no characters, no soul, no nothing. It was like an empty fancy postcard with lots of shiny artificial moving pictures in it. The only difference is that in Lucas’ case 20 years had passed between the first and second trilogies, and RDM had been working on BSG for 5 years - you wouldn’t think that a man might change that drastically. Only the feeling I have is that he’d been replaced by someone else somewhere along the way.
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OMG, yeah, I want to kill things!!!! That's the most disgusting thing I've ever heard. *fumes*
he wrote that because he himself is sort of afraid to be forgotten
OH FUCK YOU AND YOUR FUCKING EGO, RON. IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT YOU. Man, that proves SO MUCH. Including the fact that Ron used Starbuck to live out some of his own fantasies. Man, he knows NOTHING about character integrity, either personally or in writing.
because that was RDM’s own childhood dream. The guy needs medical help and perpetual ban on the writing job.
Wow. Yeah. Um, I kind of agree. He's a fantasist on an insane level, and not a writer... wow, these admissions actually make a lot of sense because they show where his decision making comes from and therefore why it makes no narrative sense. He's not concerned about his work, he's concerned about his self and he can't distinguish the two. *blinks at the crazy*
As to what Kara’s real greatest fear was, I thought I’d make a thought provoking vid about it…
Ohhh! I want your vid! I have no idea what it is because I don't know Kara like that.
could ask the same question about the people of the fleet accepting the idea of reconciliation with the Cylons.
Yeah, well I railed against that for so long but fandom just shouted me down for being a precious nitpicker (or something). But honestly, it was a big turn-off for me and a sign of the start of being asked to accept completely implausible plots.
He reminds me of George Lucas who seriously lost his marbles at the point when he decided to create the new trilogy of Star Wars
*nods* I'm very wary of these big personality directors (and RDM became one in his own way when BSG got such good press)... their egos take over at some point and I think a bit of a cult gets built up around them where no one can criticise them the way you would normally on a writing team. I've seen it happen with a few TV writers (I think Joss is one of them), and I just think it's a terrible thing.
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I went through that with the mutiny arc...and of course I was wrong to complain during that because Lee and Kara were back together and making out, so WTF was my problem??? Why couldn't I just go along with the vilification of the non-Cylon paired off characters and just bask in the mindless gunporn and Adama hard-onage by the writers???
Because in the end, the Human race got a big FU, the Cylons NEVER owned up to their responsibility for what happened, Adama and Roslin did nothing but use up screentime and abandon everybody, and Lee and Kara??? NOTHING.
So what was the point of ANY of Lee and Kara's scenes in S4??? To flip us the bird for giving a frak about them. That's IT.
Frak you, Ron.
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It's like if Superman became a sullen alcoholic that beat up women and threw old people over skyscrapers...YEAH, he's still the "Man of Steel"...but if he's doing that he's NOT a HERO anymore. And you just can't ignore something like that for long. Unfortunately, the writers thought we would.
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