Comments | bop_radar: Battlestar Galactica 3.17 Maelstrom (Part 1)

bop_radar

Battlestar Galactica 3.17 Maelstrom (Part 1)

Mar 07, 2007 09:10

I started writing last night and then (thankfully!) fell asleep. I still have a lot of sleep to catch up, and I think I'm only about halfway through what I want to say. *frowns at post* Anyway, here's for starters... ('scuse any typos--I was molto tired!)

( spoilery spoilers-duh! )

bsgseason3, bsg_meta

Comments 41

kristiinthedark March 7 2007, 00:56:33 UTC

It will forever shape the way he thinks of her: the woman he loved, the woman he put in the sky to die. That she was happy in those last moments will be lost on Lee.

Oh, Boppy! *wipes tear* Not very often does meta make me tear up, but... well, it's your meta, so not very surprising. Anyway, thank you so much for this and all of your insights into what Lee was thinking and feeling. *hugs*

I read all of it, btw. *wears medal with pride*

*doesn't mention anything about TEH HOT*

bop_radar March 7 2007, 01:00:48 UTC

*awards you medal* Thanks, sweetheart! *tears up a little too*

And *giggle* TEH HOT will take over my mind at some stage, I'm sure... damn it, my first vid was Kara/Leoben!! (And I did watch those scenes with longing... 'if only I'd waited for THESE scenes!' *g*) Though I think Lee was smokin' in this ep too. His arms were out on display to give Kara fond memories and of that, I was very glad!

kristiinthedark March 7 2007, 01:05:00 UTC

Uh huh, that's some definite vidding material there. I think Stash has an icon already of Leoben pushing her up against the wall... *eyes glaze over*

And, yes! Lee looked way hot. I'm sure his arms gave Kara pause before she made her grand exit.

bop_radar March 7 2007, 01:10:58 UTC

lidi posted a stack of animateds earlier. Hoooooot!

Kara: Lee's arms or Destiny? Destiny or Lee's arms?! *iz conflicted*
(This pleases me greatly.)

Thread 6

asta77 March 7 2007, 01:12:04 UTC

Excellent analysis as always. :)

I agree that the Leoben we saw was not the Leoben(s) we've met before. He was the same, yet just a little bit different. He seemed calmer, more patient, and more about what Kara needed then what he needed. Of course, that makes sense if this Leoben is a creation of Kara's mind.

Facing fear of death may be Kara's journey but it's not Lee's: his battle is to live.

Ohhh, I love this point! I didn't for a second think Lee would follow her into the abyss. As you put it, he's worked too hard to build himself a life, one he can be proud of, and one that has, in some ways at least, brought him some peace and happiness. Suicidal depression is in his past. But I hadn't thought about it as you did. You are absolutely correct. Lee's greatest fear was living because he had lost all hope - what was there to go on for? Kara has always fought to live, to 'cheat' death. We've seen it in YCGHA, in KLG Pt 2, and in the New Caprica eps.

Lee does emotional support so well, and he's ALWAYS wanted to be ( ... )

bop_radar March 7 2007, 01:47:53 UTC

Eee! I always look forward to talking things over with you after eps! *bounces*

Lee's greatest fear was living
It really really was, so the symmetry/reversal in having Kara die and Lee live worked for me so well, even though I didn't see it coming until this episode. It makes me happy, despite the sorrow. I was so proud of Lee in this episode--even the part where he told Kara that things were great with Dee. I'm glad he told her. From a Lee perspective, that's growth--not just that it's true but that he's willing to tell Kara that.

It's bittersweet, after Lee finally decides to move on (and I do believe it was the best and healthiest thing for him) that's when Kara finally allows him to be someone to lean on.
Definitely! *clutches aching heart*

This isn't just the anti-shipper in me talking ;), but this may have been the happiest I've ever seen the two together. Even more so then on New Caprica where he was obviously blissfully happy for one night, but she was scared and unsure.
I completely agree. In terms of both of them being ( ... )

asta77 March 8 2007, 02:48:43 UTC

I'm glad he told her. From a Lee perspective, that's growth--not just that it's true but that he's willing to tell Kara that.

I was surprised by his honesty in regards to Dee and also surprised that I believed what he said to be true. Of course, it's important to note he stated it's the best it's ever been between them and not "I'm so in love with her!". He's settled into a comfortable relationship, but at least he's not miserable and that makes me happy.

This is the hardest thing they could chuck his way other than the death of his father, and if he can get through this he'll be stronger still.

I agree. This is going to be rough on Lee, but I think he knows if he can get through this, go on without her, that it will help make him a stronger person. And I think he's already found enough inner resolve not to fall back to thoughts of despair, death, and, well, eating. ;)

bop_radar March 8 2007, 03:25:44 UTC

Yes, I think the phrasing was telling, though I did believe him (nice acting, Jamie!). I think he's in a really good place right now. Or was. He has more inner resolve than ever and has risen to so many challenges--I think he'll rise to this one. Noodles will NOT be necessary. *frowns at him sternly*

sarmoti March 7 2007, 01:46:21 UTC

My mind is still swirling from the episode and now I read your thoughts and my mind is even swirlier! Such an interesting and insightful and beautifully-written post....so of course I don't even know what to comment on! I of course ate up your big Lee section like a big bowl of candy! I am so happy with the those final (er, "final") moments and conversations that Lee and Kara, so happy with where there relationship was, how deeply they cared for each other and how clearly it was displayed. Or course it's gonna make it that much for harder for us to handle NOT seeing them together for who knows how long. *cries*

I do think that her final words helped at a subconscious level to confirm that this really was The End, that she really was gone.It was great that Kara's last words were ones that, in the end, will help Lee get through this. She was preparing him for what was about to happen, and she told him to let her go. It was the kindest thing she could do for him in that moment, to offer him reassurance that this was her choice and what ( ... )

bop_radar March 7 2007, 01:58:11 UTC

Or course it's gonna make it that much for harder for us to handle NOT seeing them together for who knows how long. *cries*
Definitely! *sniffles* This show is such a tease--dangling carrots only when you know they're about to be snatched away.

It was the kindest thing she could do for him in that moment, to offer him reassurance that this was her choice and what needed to be done, that he shouldn't carry this around as guilt or let her death crush the life that he worked so hard to build.
That's a fantastic comment! Thank you! You're right. I hadn't thought of it that way--I'd only considered it as Kara really wanting to let go. But there was no need for her to say anything in those moments. *starts crying again* In fact, it's quite unlike Kara to do so. And her words were kind, even though it will take Lee ages to see that. (Also, Kara hon, did you forget that he's an atheist?!) But I do agree that Kara's message to Lee was 'live on'. In their hangardeck conversation, when she says 'I'm happy for you', I got that vibe there too. It ( ... )

sarmoti March 7 2007, 02:19:19 UTC

*brain swirling continues*

I think on some level Kara may have actually saved Lee's life. He was preparing to go after her, to go in to bring her back. Doing this could've killed him. Kara was ready to die, so there was no reason for Lee to risk his life to save her. I don't if Kara necessarily told Lee to stay away in order to save him (since primarily she just wanted to be sure that he didn't save HER), but it very well may have saved him nonetheless.

It was a 'I'm happy you're finally ok', 'I'm happy in a genuinely selfless way' comment.

Oh, my heart is all smooshy just thinking about it. I'm just so happy Lee and Kara were in that happy place; that Lee was happy, and Kara was happy for him, and Lee knew that. Of course, now Lee will be significantly less happy (*wails*) but he has more strength to get through this because of the positive way that things left off between him and Kara.

bop_radar March 7 2007, 02:27:50 UTC

Yes and no, I think. I think the strength he'll need to draw on in the immediate term will be that which he had already (the 'being in a good place in my life' place). Because it's awfuly bittersweet that positive ending between them. I keep seeing Lee's face in my mind--his expression after Kara says 'I guess that's all we'll ever be'--and thinking how much those words are going to haunt him. I think those words will haunt him first, but that with time, yes, the fact that they were in such a happy place together, the fact that they were side by side, and her final words of peace and farewell to him will (happily) become part of the treasured shrine to Kara Thrace's memory that Lee will build in his heart.

boom_queen March 7 2007, 02:28:11 UTC

Wheee, medal for me too! Of course your meta is always so insightful and fun to read that it doesn't feel overly long. Ramble on darling, I will be hear to listen :)

the way that Lee stares and stares at Kara before saying 'whatever it takes'. Kara turns away first, she can't bear it...her next line (a question about Dee) was a distraction, an attempt to put some distance between them.

I was frustrated by this at first because I thought it was Kara being emotionally reserved/untrusting, but then I realized it was more about an acceptance of their evolved friendship/relationship and trying to re-establish some safe distance to show respect and love for Lee. Which is incredibly mature for Kara, since she has had such a tendency to take what she wants when its convenient for her even if involves pushing Lee into vulnerable situations.

But why is he able to pull out? Death was once attractive to Lee as a way out. But this time he resists, even with his best friend/co-pilot/sister/lover/twinned half leading the way. Why?I thought ( ... )

bop_radar March 7 2007, 03:55:54 UTC

Thank you! *awards medal*

it was more about an acceptance of their evolved friendship/relationship and trying to re-establish some safe distance to show respect and love for Lee. Which is incredibly mature for Kara, since she has had such a tendency to take what she wants when its convenient for her even if involves pushing Lee into vulnerable situations.
*nods* It was both wonderful and tragic that we saw this growth in her (just) before she died.

The guilt and self-doubt and grief are going to be so strong, but I trust Jamie to pull it off with his usual mix of strong emotion and quiet furor.
*nods* I'm desperate to see the next episodes already. And I was already excited about them once I realised that Lee was going to be in the big season ending plot arc. (I didn't realise that Kara *wasn't*!)

She is a wealth of emotion and potential as a character--there's so much more of her story to tell!So true! Why kill off a character with so much potential? With so much of her story obviously left untold. I think this will mark a new ( ... )

brokenmnemonic March 7 2007, 14:06:49 UTC

If I wasn't up to my neck in writing fanfic at the moment, I'd respond in all sorts of detail. For now, I'll have to resort to brevity; you've summed up everything I was feeling about the episode and much more, and far more eloquently than I have. I'm glad latteaddict pointed out your LJ to me - it's always a fascinating read.

I think what got me most about this was that even in Kara's final moments, Lee kept saying "we can still get out of this." Not you, but we. I'm pretty sure Kara will be back in S4 - and I can only hope that like a stage play, this Act III was the darkest, and that for the ship, Act IV will show things improving steadily.

bop_radar March 7 2007, 22:52:48 UTC

Thank you so much for the lovely comment! (Good to meet you too! And fanfic? *perks*)

Not you, but we.
Such a beautiful point and one I perhaps took for granted a little--thank you for highlighting it. I do think it was very signifcant. Lee did a lot of signalling to Kara, in this episode, that despite everything they were a team, a partnership, paired. There IS an 'us'. (Oh, Kara! Oh, Lee!)

I can only hope that like a stage play, this Act III was the darkest, and that for the ship, Act IV will show things improving steadily.
I hope so with all my heart. It does have that 'arcing' feeling about it. As a viewer, in no way did I feel like this was The End, but it may have been the darkest hour.

(Aside: hey, your icon is like mine except with bonus groping!)

brokenmnemonic March 8 2007, 12:20:48 UTC

I've just re-read your meta here, and the second part - and I'm seriously impressed still :) Not just because your thinking on them is so... objective, perhaps? A lot of people in fandom are lapsing into "it's all Lee's fault" or "it's all Kara's" fault when it comes to these two, and that sort of thinking gets negative and close-minded very fast ( ... )

bop_radar March 9 2007, 01:13:47 UTC

Thank you! *G* I'm very flattered that you felt I achieved any form of objectivity, because I love Lee so passionately, I'm not sure that's always possible... But I do try! ;-) I know just what you mean about fandom's tendency to make it 'all Lee's fault' or 'all Kara's fault' and I definitely never like doing that. I was lucky enough to watch the first two seasons with my best friend, who had an instinctive understanding of Kara, whereas I was instinctively drawn to Lee. We found that we could 'explain' the characters to each other after eps--and initially we did just rant at each other at times--but it forced me to be aware of the subjectivity of my emotional reaction to the show/the characters, and so now I watch knowing that I'm biassed, seeing things from Lee's perspective.

I agree with you on the resonant tones. I think that's a huge reason I loved it despite its flaws and despite its unsettling nature.

It almost felt as if Kara had worked out what her feelings were for Anders, and as if he was becoming a sort of version of ( ... )

Thread 7