Thoughts on Bangel in the context of gender roles and subversion in Buffy shiping

Apr 10, 2012 14:56

This recent post by shadowkat about shipping Spuffy and gender reversals in the relationship  shadowkat67.livejournal.com/793238.html linked on Buffyforums by moscow_watcher got me to write a short reply about my views, which are a bit different from hers. I can't do that on her LJ  because she flipped out on me with absolutely no reason and attacked me on her LJ about a ( Read more... )

bangel, buffy, buffy the vampire slayer, spuffy, angel, spike

Leave a comment

local_max April 11 2012, 18:51:00 UTC
Petrie is SO OBVIOUSLY a Buffy/Faith shipper!

I do think that Into the Woods reads better in the full-series arc, wherein Triangle and Hell's Bells undercut Into the Woods and As You Were respectively; if Xander and Anya are the ship that gets propped up as what Buffy and Riley could have been if only Buffy had opened her heart, as Xander's speech seems to imply, then their destruction can be read as commentary on that read of Buffy/Riley. More to the point, both Triangle and Hell's Bells prominently feature victims of Anya's (Anya as the Riley analogue) coming in to wreak havoc on her current relationship and threatening Xander; and in HB, Xander deciding that maybe the unilateral commitment and the implied brushing away all the dark of the relationship wasn't the best solution after all. I think that largely Xander and Anya had a better rapport than Buffy and Riley and I rooted for them considerably more, but I think that Buffy's hopes for the normalcy that she felt Riley represented, rather than being resolved by Riley's departure, got put onto Xander and Anya's relationship, so their problems (and eventual more elegant resolution) read to me as the real way the show resolves the Buffy/Riley issues, for Buffy. Which, long story short, is why I don't mind the helicopter run (or As You Were), because I don't think either are the show's "real" last word on Buffy/Riley. (And I think they are in character for Buffy and Riley, too, though As You Were flattens Riley a fair bit.)

I'm not really a shipper re: Buffy either, though I enjoy the Buffy/Spike dynamic best. Well, Buffy/Faith dynamic best, or Buffy/Willow in a nonslashy way, but I digress. I feel bad for Buffy/Riley shippers.

Reply

boot_the_grime April 11 2012, 19:06:00 UTC
The parallels, however, tended to shift: Into the Woods parallels Xander/Anya with Buffy/Riley, but Normal Again/Entropy parallels Xander/Anya with Buffy/Spike. (Why Normal Again? Because I think Spike is channeling his anger at Buffy dumping him into his anger at Xander walking out of his wedding. And then it gets explicit in Entropy.) Then there's, obviously, Sefless/Sleeper, which finally compares Xander/Anya to Buffy/Angel and Buffy/Spike.

Reply

local_max April 11 2012, 19:09:35 UTC
Definitely. I do think that bringing Riley back for the episode before the wedding is important, though. I think Riley/Sam is the relationship Buffy (thinks maybe) she could have had (while she is in despair about her relationship with Spike), and Riley/Sam is compared to Xander/Anya for their upcoming nuptuals; but the optimism inspired by Riley's presence is short-lived. Xander/Anya is definitely not just one-to-one, but in Hell's Bells it's definitely meant to be an escape/fantasy for Buffy (her light at the end of the tunnel), which is a sort of similar function that Riley serves for her. When Anya turns into a demon, the metaphors all shift and the parallels with Buffy/Spike (which were there all along, of course) come charging to the surface.

Reply

selenak April 11 2012, 19:14:55 UTC
Petrie: I know, right?

You have a point re: Xander/Anya and what their story means in this context.

With my thing about siblings, I probably love the Buffy & Dawn dynamic best (one of the reasons why s5 is my favourite), but really, I appreciate that the show always gave her several important and interesting relationships in her life, with her love interest of the season(s) never being the only one that counted for her, or the only one given space by the show's narrative. Given later shows (grrr, arggh, most recently at Fringe for doing this to its heroine), this stands out for me even more in retrospect.

Reply

local_max April 11 2012, 19:24:45 UTC
I still am amazed that the shooting script for Enemies has Faith kissing Buffy on the lips.

I do love the Buffy and Dawn dynamic -- in fact Buffy has consistently interesting relationships with the whole cast (though Oz and Anya least; and I like that it's not just a matter of them developing only in their relationships -- it seems like more care was taken with the Xander & Oz friendship, and Willow & Anya friendship/rivalry, than Buffy's relationship with Oz or Anya, which I like because it makes the world feel a little more real). I don't watch Fringe, but Dexter is the hyper-obvious case recently for ignoring the possibility of non-romantic relationships for female characters....

Reply

selenak April 11 2012, 19:45:22 UTC
*weeps tears of blood for Dexter, or rather, for Deb*

Re: Cast relationships, yes to all this. It's interesting that when Buffy does get to develop a relationship to one of Willow's s.o. that's not just about the person being Willow's love interst, it's Tara, not Oz whom she went to school with. (The scene between Buffy and Tara after Joyce's death and of course the breakdown one later in s6 are among my favourites.)

Reply

itsnotmymind April 11 2012, 23:51:18 UTC
I think that Buffy's hopes for the normalcy that she felt Riley represented, rather than being resolved by Riley's departure, got put onto Xander and Anya's relationship, so their problems (and eventual more elegant resolution) read to me as the real way the show resolves the Buffy/Riley issues, for Buffy.

That theory is way out there, but I like it.

Reply


Leave a comment

Up