Thoughts on Bangel in the context of gender roles and subversion in Buffy shiping
This recent post by shadowkat about shipping Spuffy and gender reversals in the relationship shadowkat67.livejournal.com/793238.html linked on Buffyforums by moscow_watcher got me to write a short reply about my views, which are a bit different from hers. I can't do that on her LJ because she flipped out on me with absolutely no reason and attacked me on her LJ about a
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I think everyone finds it easier to see the best in what they like, and the worst in what they don't like, whether it's a show or a pairing or a character or anything else. Like with favorite characters on Buffy and Angel, it seems that fans notice and remember the times when their pet character was treated unfairly on the show, and not the times when their pet character benefited while other characters were treated unfairly.
Given the level of criticism I've seen directed at Buffy/Riley, it seems like a pairing can be very unpopular and still get lots and lots of criticism for being boring and mainstream. That might partly be because Buffy/Riley is seen as being boosted by the writers of the show itself, since Riley is presented as the normal, healthy alternative to both Angel and Spike. Which is probably because, despite his many flaws, Riley was (arguably) the best long-term boyfriend Buffy ever had (on account of, you know, not being a stalkerish mass-murderer).
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He. He does have that advantage. Mind you, I couldn't see Buffy/Riley lasting, either, and I'm all for critisizing the helicopter run of doom and the way the show via not refuting the Xander and Anya analysis of the situation seemed to blame Buffy unilateraly for their breakup. But for the most part, it struck me as a credible relationship for Buffy to have after the teenage apocalyptic drama with Angel. I dimly recall one of the writers - Doug Petrie*, I think - saying back in s4 that Riley was supposed to be Clark Kent/Superman to Angel's Bruce Wayne/Batman for Buffy, and you can see that in the way he's written in the first half of s4 especially. But of course once the Initiative storyline was played out they had the problem of what to do with Riley other than him being Buffy's boyfriend, and Marc Blucas wasn't bad, just not charismatic enough to justify him sticking around on actor ability alone (let alone popularity, which he didn't have). Hence manly identity crisis and departure, which worked for me except for said helicopter run of doom and blaming Buffy lone, but I still think it was a better solution than killing him off.
it seems that fans notice and remember the times when their pet character was treated unfairly on the show, and not the times when their pet character benefited while other characters were treated unfairly.
Oh absolutely, and I'm as guilty of that as the next fan. Which is why it's important to leave one's comfort zone in the fandoms now and then and check on how fans of completely different characters see the tale(s).
*Speaking of Doug Petrie, he offers an interesting case of how fannish perception of a writer and whom said writer favours changed not based on the actual writing but on the writer's utterances. After Fool for Love was broadcast, Petrie was for a while regarded as God when it came to Spike, Spike's foremost champion, could do no wrong, etc. Until the dvds came out, and lo and behold, on the audio commentary for both The Initiative and Fool For Love we have Doug P. sounding raving about... Riley. Betrayal! He was a mole all along who never really got Spike, etc. When it's so clear that Petrie's really a Buffy/Faith shipper.
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I do think that Into the Woods reads better in the full-series arc, wherein Triangle and Hell's Bells undercut Into the Woods and As You Were respectively; if Xander and Anya are the ship that gets propped up as what Buffy and Riley could have been if only Buffy had opened her heart, as Xander's speech seems to imply, then their destruction can be read as commentary on that read of Buffy/Riley. More to the point, both Triangle and Hell's Bells prominently feature victims of Anya's (Anya as the Riley analogue) coming in to wreak havoc on her current relationship and threatening Xander; and in HB, Xander deciding that maybe the unilateral commitment and the implied brushing away all the dark of the relationship wasn't the best solution after all. I think that largely Xander and Anya had a better rapport than Buffy and Riley and I rooted for them considerably more, but I think that Buffy's hopes for the normalcy that she felt Riley represented, rather than being resolved by Riley's departure, got put onto Xander and Anya's relationship, so their problems (and eventual more elegant resolution) read to me as the real way the show resolves the Buffy/Riley issues, for Buffy. Which, long story short, is why I don't mind the helicopter run (or As You Were), because I don't think either are the show's "real" last word on Buffy/Riley. (And I think they are in character for Buffy and Riley, too, though As You Were flattens Riley a fair bit.)
I'm not really a shipper re: Buffy either, though I enjoy the Buffy/Spike dynamic best. Well, Buffy/Faith dynamic best, or Buffy/Willow in a nonslashy way, but I digress. I feel bad for Buffy/Riley shippers.
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You have a point re: Xander/Anya and what their story means in this context.
With my thing about siblings, I probably love the Buffy & Dawn dynamic best (one of the reasons why s5 is my favourite), but really, I appreciate that the show always gave her several important and interesting relationships in her life, with her love interest of the season(s) never being the only one that counted for her, or the only one given space by the show's narrative. Given later shows (grrr, arggh, most recently at Fringe for doing this to its heroine), this stands out for me even more in retrospect.
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I do love the Buffy and Dawn dynamic -- in fact Buffy has consistently interesting relationships with the whole cast (though Oz and Anya least; and I like that it's not just a matter of them developing only in their relationships -- it seems like more care was taken with the Xander & Oz friendship, and Willow & Anya friendship/rivalry, than Buffy's relationship with Oz or Anya, which I like because it makes the world feel a little more real). I don't watch Fringe, but Dexter is the hyper-obvious case recently for ignoring the possibility of non-romantic relationships for female characters....
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Re: Cast relationships, yes to all this. It's interesting that when Buffy does get to develop a relationship to one of Willow's s.o. that's not just about the person being Willow's love interst, it's Tara, not Oz whom she went to school with. (The scene between Buffy and Tara after Joyce's death and of course the breakdown one later in s6 are among my favourites.)
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That theory is way out there, but I like it.
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re: rewriting, back in the day there is this great site that posted various versions of the scripts (since then taken down), and it was quite illuminating for what this said about both Joss and Marti as script editors. (Simply put: they were great at that job.) The examples I remember best is the original version of the church scene between Buffy and Spike from s7 versus the Whedonian rewrite, and the climactic Angel and Darla scene from "Dear Boy" as written by David Greenwalt versus the rewritten and broadcast scene, with the rewrite hailing from Marti Noxon. (And you can tell, imo; she's great as this type of Albee-esque couple scenes.)
And sometimes assuming something about scriptwriters' known preferences misleads you completely even if they themselves have voiced them. I assumed along with everyone else Jane Espenson had written the Andrew and Jonathan scenes in "Conversations with Dead People" (being the writer of the previous Jonathan centric eps and of course later of Storyteller), and was really surprised that her part of the episodes were the Dawn scenes instead. (Though I guessed correctly Joss did the uncredited writing for the Buffy and Holden scenes.)
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Oddly though, it's a replay on some level of Angel ("I know what's best for you better than you do") but also a foreshadowing of Spike's repeated "I'm in love with you" - and hence because he is she SHOULD give him a chance. So there are points of similarities with all of Buffy's men.
I think actually that the Buffy/Riley relationship is meant to be as subversive in it's way as Buffy/Angel and Buffy/Spike (or maybe I'm being incredibly optimistic about the writers?) In this case, it's the notion that "good girls always fall for the bad boys so if ONLY they would see how great the nice guy is..." Which is what Riley's argument. But as it turns out, he has his own dark side, which he ends up running away from, and hurting Buffy in his own way. So it turns out that choosing the "nice guy" is no guarantee of a healthy relationship, either. (In RL, a lot of the "nice guys" I've met similarly have some not-so-very nice sides to them.)
This is probably a HUGE stretch but in some ways Parker foreshadows Riley; normal guys (not vamps); the difference being Parker seems like a nice guy but we find out quickly he isn't, he's just performing the role consciously to get what he wants. On the other hand Riley genuinely believes he's a nice guy, and he certainly doesn't consciously set out to hurt Buffy, but he does anyway; in this case, he can't deal with his own flaws. (That's what makes Buffy and Spike endlessly fascinating to me, the way they are forced to do their own emotional work.)
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But I don't know, I believe in people. I like to think Riley would work through his own emotional work eventually if given the chance (I don't read Buffy or Angel comics, so I don't know what happens in them). I mean, Angel went back to Darla and killed people after getting a soul. Spike went crazy in a basement and who knows what would have happened to him if he hadn't been able to trust Buffy to help him, and she to believe in him to give him the strength he needed to become a better person. Which, given how they treated each other in S6, is a miracle. I like to think that Riley would be able to come back from his worst moments some day. Obviously, we didn't see that "some day" onscreen.
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