Thoughts on Bangel in the context of gender roles and subversion in Buffy shiping

[boot_the_grime]

This recent post by shadowkat about shipping Spuffy and gender reversals in the relationship  shadowkat67.livejournal.com/793238.html linked on Buffyforums by moscow_watcher got me to write a short reply about my views, which are a bit different from hers. I can't do that on her LJ  because she flipped out on me with absolutely no reason and attacked me on her LJ about a

Comments

[beloved_77]

I also wonder if the "vast majority" of Spuffy shippers really identify with Spike rather than Buffy

I've found this to be true for most of the Spuffy shippers with whom I've interacted. In fact, a lot of people seem to be more fans of Spike than fans of Spuffy, and they seem to ship Spuffy solely because Spike loves Buffy. But there do seem to be a few who identify more with Buffy, including me. However, I do like both characters, and I ship them because I see the incredible potential of their relationship.

[rebcake]

I don't know. I empathize (identify) more with Buffy, but I sympathize more with Spike. I totally "get" Buffy, but am more intrigued by Spike. Buffy's love life (outside of Spike) is not that interesting to me, though her life and works are. Spike's love life? Endlessly fascinating.

What does it mean?

[beloved_77]

I empathize (identify) more with Buffy, but I sympathize more with Spike.

That's exactly how I feel. I see a lot of myself in Buffy, but I find Spike more intriguing because he's a lot of the things that I'm not.

Buffy's love life (outside of Spike) is not that interesting to me

Maybe that's because her love life outside of Spike was boring at best. :-P To me, neither Angel, nor Riley feels like a deep, emotional, adult connection. I'm not inclined to see where the relationships go because they appear to be going nowhere.

[rebcake]

Maybe that's because her love life outside of Spike was boring at best.

That could be part of it, yeah. :D

[boot_the_grime]

That's exactly how I feel. I see a lot of myself in Buffy, but I find Spike more intriguing because he's a lot of the things that I'm not. That's pretty much me. I always liked Spike and he really fascinates me in so many ways, but he's not a lot like me. I see a lot of myself in Buffy, too. But I love both characters dearly - and I ship them because they have great chemistry and an incredibly interesting relationship. I didn't always think they could be good for each other - I was first intrigued by the idea of them together, then fascinated by them together and how they affect each other. To my surprise, over time they started looking like a couple that really could work well together and be happy under the right circumstances and if they worked out their respective issues, which started the phase of rooting for them rather than just rooting to see them interact and have a story together

[eilowyn]

I would put it as I originally related to Buffy, but I liked Spike more. Same thing, different words, I think.

[itsnotmymind]

I had almost the opposite reaction! Spike was easy for to me figure out. Buffy took more work, but was endlessly fascinating. So I'm much more interested her psychology and relationships than in Spike's.

[eilowyn]

There is a certain contingent of young, feminist Spuffy fans who identify with Buffy more (they may or may not have originally identified with Spike, but on more contemplation/rewatches, Buffy becomes their girl) of which I was one (until I used profanity and sarcasm and was kicked out of the club, of course). So yes, the "vast majority" is a bit of an overstatement.

[beloved_77]

until I used profanity and sarcasm and was kicked out of the club, of course

You should hang out in my circles. Profanity and sarcasm are practically prerequisites. :-P

[angearia]

(until I used profanity and sarcasm and was kicked out of the club, of course)

Considering how profanity and sarcasm are fun times for the Spuffy + feminism corner of Buffy fandom (if not a prerequisite!), I'm afraid that makes no sense.

[ever_neutral]

For real.