The flip side. ("Pickering, why can't a woman be more like a man?")

[bookshop]

Hello to everyone coming over from metafandom!

I am very pleased at the outpouring of response to my post about gay subtext and heteronormativity.

And the thing is, you can't talk about hating the heteronormative tropes of mainstream media without facing up to the fact that having this conversation within the context of slash fandom is, well, profoundly

Comments

[fahye]

Goddammit, I wish I had the mental capacity to say something sagacious, but all I really want to do is wave my hands around yelling ELIZABETH BURKE!! until my pupils turn into tiny hearts.

[bookshop]

And see, I honestly HATE the way Elizabeth is written on the show, like, her entire role is to be Peter's little domestic helper and conscience and dutifully help him with all his cases, it drives me NUTS. BUT ON THE OTHER HAND KELLY FROM SAVED BY THE BELL IS ACTING HER HEART OUT and she is so fabulous, and I am so torn.

[fahye]

*nods* I do wish we got to see a lot more of her (a LOT more) and to be frank I'm happy she even gets involved with the cases at all, which says terrible, terrible things about low standards and the classic role of The Wife in these kinds of male-based procedurals. The fact that she a) clearly has a life and a career of her own, and friends that we actually see, and b) sometimes uses her unique skills and connections to help with a case, is...well, a lot more than the writers could have done, considering how much of the show is PETER, NEAL, PETER AND NEAL. Like I said. Low expectations :/ It sucks, but Better is still something, even if it's not Ideal. It's a step in the right direction.

And it's true: the actress is adorable and I really have a sense of Elizabeth as a person in her own right, someone who doesn't exist in order to object to Peter's workaholic self and his control issues, but who married him and loves him despite them. I like that her idea of 'the right thing to do' is often different to Peter's. I REALLY like,

[bookshop]

THIS IS THE PART WHERE I BEG YOU TO WATCH FRIDAY NIGHT LIGHTS. I have never ever seen girls written so well, on any tv show on television, let alone network television. And the relationship between coach/mrs coach (and later coach/principal coach!) is just. the best. best. best healthiest marriage portrayed on TV. They are both such amazing people but even more amazing is the way they actively work to hold their marriage together, the way they make it work and we can *see* them learning how to make it fit, not in some cheesy sitcom way where all problems are resolved in 30 minutes, but just in an ongoing struggle where we feel involved and invested and we hope so much in their relationship with each other, and we see how the strength of that relationship anchors everyone else on the show. I mean, you watch their marriage and then you come back to shows like White Collar and you just feel so ...aware of what you could have had, that you aren't being given. Not that Elizabeth is not a lovely character, but WC is just so *shallow*

[fahye]

I agree 100% that White Collar is a very (very) shallow show. Sadly, when stressed (read: always) I tend to end up watching shallow shows in what free time I have.

And yes! I loved Coach/Mrs Coach a LOT in S1, and they are probably the only thing that would convince me to watch later seasons. I would, honest to god, if I could get the episodes -- I'll see if it's on the college network, which will be up again in late February.

[ungemmed]

asdf yes, omg. I am ten episodes into s1 and I love Tami Taylor THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS much. And poor Lila falling apart because she let so much of her life rest on assumptions that aren't true any more, and Tyra so smart and so savvy but somehow defining herself by her relationships to men anyway.... but mostly, omg Mrs.Coach.

(thank you so much again <3 <3 <3!)

[evewithanapple]

I'm jumping in here (I wandered in through the Bloomsbury!fail post) to say that I agree with all of this- Elizabeth is an amazing character in her own right, and I love that a.) she's frequently involved with cases and b.) she frequently helps SOLVE cases, in equal measures with Peter and Neal. I don't mind the PETER, NEAL, PETER AND NEAL stuff so much, because . . . well, it is a buddy cop show, and it's going to focus on the buddy cops by virtue of the premise. But at the same time, we get Elizabeth and Cruz and June, and I think that even though the show definitely has some female character issues *coughKATEcough* I have to give it points for trying.

(Also, I need an Elizabeth icon)

[ladyeternal]

Aja, you and I keep crossing fandoms. I swear to God, we just need to hook up in RL and squee about out TV shows until neither of our tongues are of any use.

I would like to recommend, however, that you take a look at Three Way Collar. This comm and several of the slash stories that I've read on the Caffrey-Burke deal with Elizabeth as an active participant in the slash. I rather like the portrayal of her as a confident, practical woman who not only understands her husband's impulses to f*ck Neal Caffrey blind, but shares them as well

[ladyeternal]

Addendum:

I dare anyone to go read the Best Worst trilogy by Barbara Robinson and not to come away thinking that someday, after they all hit puberty, Imogene Herdman isn't gonna corner Beth Bradley and plant one square on her lips. And I'll be double-damned if I don't think Beth would respond.

Nobody here likely knows what I'm talking about, but I needed to get that out.

[bookshop]

THE BEST CHRISTMAS PAGEANT EVER!!!! IMOGENE/BETH OTP <3 <3 <3

[ladyeternal]

I told you, Aja! I think we're in at least half of each other's fandoms! We love the same things!

TOTALLY IMOGENE/BETH OTP 4EVR!!!!!

[nocoward_soul]

I would read that! Love those books (and My Brother Louis Measures Worms).