Okay, I'll post first to my own comment, as sad as it seems. Hate me if you will, but new book sellers know titles and authors, and maybe publishers, but that's more or less where it ends. Unless they have special, outside training, anything else isn't required in their work, and their book education stop there. As a rare/antiquarian bookseller, it's a different game, in which book buying/selling becomes more of an art then a science. One that takes years of experience to perfect and there is no real guarantee you will ever "get it". Sometimes a gut feeling is all you've got to go on with no other pricing guide because it's a totally unique item. This "gut feeling" is the culmination of years of experience and an absolutely encyclopedic knowledge of the book world.
Yes, but why are you satisfied and state that you "Love. LOVE." new books when as I said, that no new book is worth as much, nor likely to be as important as some of the antiquarian volumes out there? To be a bit provacative, you don't even price your own books. Isn't it just like any other retail job at that point? Product knowledge, you say? Well, how is that any different than the Gap employee who understand the different cut of Levis? Titles and authors. We know those too.
To those just joining this thread. This post was a response to literaticat taking offense to a comment a made "tragically relegated to new bookstores" when referring to some fine folks I know working in them, because used/antiquarian work is damn hard to come by.
It's the "versus" as if it were a prizefight, and the obvious huge chip on the OP's shoulder when it comes to treating new booksellers like people who deserve respect rather than tilldonkeys.
Bookselling nowadays seems to have devolved into not much more than a basic retail job. I was in the new(ish)Forbidding Prices superstore a while back and, really, it's just a supermarket that happens to sell SF books. In the old days, your friendly neighbourhood bookseller was a fount of all knowledge and really cared about his product, but since his breed has almost been exterminated by the large, chain bookstores, decline is inevitable.
There was a very, very funny article in The Guardian a couple of years ago in which their reporters went into bookshops and asked trick questions. I can't remember them all, but one involved complaining that Finnegan's Wake was full of typos (salesman in Foyle's: "Oh, I'm so sorry, they must have let an uncorrected proof slip through by accident"), and another one asked whether Henry Miller had ever written any other astrology books besides 'Cancer' and 'Capricorn' ("I don't know, let me look that up for you"). Sad, no
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Well, I'd slice the mindspace three ways: new, used and antiquarian/rareorangemikeAugust 12 2005, 15:32:55 UTC
I've worked for almost thirty years in the used book field, and been a customer for longer than that in the new. I can't afford the rare/antiquarian market, but deal with them sometimes at work.
Rare? You already made the case for it.
New? Ideally, you need to be au courant with the latest fad (good or crap); but in practice, I run into an awful lot of people who might as well be working at The Gap or Hot Topic. It can be downright embarassing to think that people are forming generalizations about "bookstore clerks" based on some high school kid they've encountered who has to use Borders' computer to look up the author of A Tale of Two Cities, and who'd obviously rather be pimpin' Air Jordans. There are, of course, honorable exceptions like literaticat, especially in the surviving independents; but even among the megachains such persons are to be found, refugees from illiteracy doomed to work for bookstore wages, and doing their level best for the customer
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Re: Well, I'd slice the mindspace three ways: new, used and antiquarian/raredragatheimpalerAugust 12 2005, 18:33:29 UTC
In used/rare/antiquarian, it's true, you've got everything from the GoodWill to Natalie Baumann and her ilk. Pretty broad range, but I'm just curious what people think about their jobs, I mean, what they really think about their jobs beyond the usual "Customers Suck" stuff we hear.
Also, forgive me here, but I've never worked new, you guys get your books from distributors like Ingram, then if they don't sell in three months you send them back. That's how we get remainders, that much I get, but does the publisher pay you for the books you returned to them? Does the publisher pay you the full amount, or do you lose more than just your shipping for returning books? Obviously, in used books, we buy it, then hope it's something someone would actually want to buy and we have priced it at a price they are willing to pay, otherwise, we are just out of luck because there is no one to return that book to.
Re: Well, I'd slice the mindspace three ways: new, used and antiquarian/raremsandromedaAugust 12 2005, 19:52:03 UTC
Returns are sort of complicated, and there are a lot of new books that stores do get stuck with - basically, depending on why and when you're returning it, and on if you're sending it back to a distributor or a publisher, you get back a percentage of what you paid. AND the store pays the shipping. I've done returns, it's a bitch.
Re: Well, I'd slice the mindspace three ways: new, used and antiquarian/rarenjdinergirlAugust 15 2005, 02:33:31 UTC
I work in a chain store in a mall. Lately I've been considering whether or not I like my job, because it does not pay well, they don't give us benefits unless we're full time, and they refuse to make anyone who is not a manager full time. I like some of our regular customers, I like it when the customers listen to my suggestions, and I like books in general, but if I found another job that paid better and worked around my school schedule I'd probably take it.
I never thought this community would have people trying to start a flamewar...
And yes, that is what you are doing. You cannot compare the two as so many people have said. They are entirely unique creatures. Neither one is better or worse since their goals are drastically different.
Why don't you wait for the flamewar to start before you go accusing me of starting one. I actually think we're all adults here, and can critically examine our profession from it's various facets without devolving into petty name calling. Besides, it's a nice change of pace from the usual "I hate my customers" fest.
So the goals are different? What are the goals? Why are they such unique creatures, they both sell books? Is this something you are not capable of discussing without it devolving into a flamewar? Is that why you accused me of starting one? Surely that's not the case. You must have something constructive and enlightening to say.
P.S. I was giving literaticat some good natured ribbing, because she does get indignant with me. She's a big girl. She can take care of herself.
I work at a Waldenbooks. In a mall. Next to a Hottopic. My store is the exact opposite of a rare/used bookstore. My customers look for books that are generally cheap and entertaining. They don't care about binding, typography or editions. I received no training at my store aside from, "You hit this button here to sell the book." However, I am an English major and an avid reader of all types of books and use that knowledge to help me better serve my customers. While I do admit to not knowing all about books, I do feel I am very informed and not just some sales monkey
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Agreed. In the truly rare collectibles we are catering to the barking mad. Who, but a total looney, would pay 30k for a Harry Potter book?
I think booksellers are as varied as the items they sell, but what they do share is the retail experience, which is probably why we get so many of the "look what this dumb customer did/said" posts. I don't have a low opinion of new book sellers, but I do have a low opinion of people with a "Hey, I just work here" attitude, in any profession. I honestly don't know anything about new books or what it's really like. It's not a crime to ask.
BTW, the rare/antiquarian book biz is no more glamorous from the look of things. In fact it's often dirty, smelly, and involves a lot of heavy lifting and data entry. Sometimes, it's poo too. At least the books you get are clean and bright and not covered in mold or 25 years worth of nicotine staining. Ick! Sometimes it's depressing as hell to see.
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To those just joining this thread. This post was a response to literaticat taking offense to a comment a made "tragically relegated to new bookstores" when referring to some fine folks I know working in them, because used/antiquarian work is damn hard to come by.
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There was a very, very funny article in The Guardian a couple of years ago in which their reporters went into bookshops and asked trick questions. I can't remember them all, but one involved complaining that Finnegan's Wake was full of typos (salesman in Foyle's: "Oh, I'm so sorry, they must have let an uncorrected proof slip through by accident"), and another one asked whether Henry Miller had ever written any other astrology books besides 'Cancer' and 'Capricorn' ("I don't know, let me look that up for you"). Sad, no ( ... )
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"Finnegan's Wake" full of typos. *dies*.
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Rare? You already made the case for it.
New? Ideally, you need to be au courant with the latest fad (good or crap); but in practice, I run into an awful lot of people who might as well be working at The Gap or Hot Topic. It can be downright embarassing to think that people are forming generalizations about "bookstore clerks" based on some high school kid they've encountered who has to use Borders' computer to look up the author of A Tale of Two Cities, and who'd obviously rather be pimpin' Air Jordans. There are, of course, honorable exceptions like literaticat, especially in the surviving independents; but even among the megachains such persons are to be found, refugees from illiteracy doomed to work for bookstore wages, and doing their level best for the customer ( ... )
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Also, forgive me here, but I've never worked new, you guys get your books from distributors like Ingram, then if they don't sell in three months you send them back. That's how we get remainders, that much I get, but does the publisher pay you for the books you returned to them? Does the publisher pay you the full amount, or do you lose more than just your shipping for returning books? Obviously, in used books, we buy it, then hope it's something someone would actually want to buy and we have priced it at a price they are willing to pay, otherwise, we are just out of luck because there is no one to return that book to.
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And yes, that is what you are doing. You cannot compare the two as so many people have said. They are entirely unique creatures. Neither one is better or worse since their goals are drastically different.
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So the goals are different? What are the goals? Why are they such unique creatures, they both sell books? Is this something you are not capable of discussing without it devolving into a flamewar? Is that why you accused me of starting one? Surely that's not the case. You must have something constructive and enlightening to say.
P.S. I was giving literaticat some good natured ribbing, because she does get indignant with me. She's a big girl. She can take care of herself.
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I think booksellers are as varied as the items they sell, but what they do share is the retail experience, which is probably why we get so many of the "look what this dumb customer did/said" posts. I don't have a low opinion of new book sellers, but I do have a low opinion of people with a "Hey, I just work here" attitude, in any profession. I honestly don't know anything about new books or what it's really like. It's not a crime to ask.
BTW, the rare/antiquarian book biz is no more glamorous from the look of things. In fact it's often dirty, smelly, and involves a lot of heavy lifting and data entry. Sometimes, it's poo too. At least the books you get are clean and bright and not covered in mold or 25 years worth of nicotine staining. Ick! Sometimes it's depressing as hell to see.
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