(Untitled)

[bookofjude]

I've seen this "Dos and Dont's of a Good Ally" on my friends list a few times; it comes from karynthia (ETA: This is the wrong username but I can't find the original post to correct!), and while I do not know this person, there is a lot about the post that I agree with. There is also a some stuff in the that I disagree with.

So, here's my take:

Comments

[bookofjude]

This really depends on context. If the conversation is happening somewhere that's a space for talking about oppression, their discomfort is their problem, and they are actually derailing. (The ability to have side conversations is useful in this case.) If it's in a space for something else, it's more complicated; but even then it can be a conversation where most people have agreed that they're going to deal with oppression issues and if someone is not comfortable, sometimes they should leave, not stop the conversation.

Oh, I do agree about this, perhaps I should've been slightly clearer. There have been times in real life where I've had to sit through listening to a conversation that I found extremely distressing. I was unable to leave and the people who were having the conversation refused to stop having the conversation.

I think I was trying to get across the idea that, just because a topic is important, and it's important to you, doesn't necessarily mean that you have the right to discuss it everywhere, ignoring other people's feelings on the matter.

I would summarize this as just "don't be a dick."

But I like dicks!

Again I think it's context-dependent; sometimes absolutely I think we should do what you suggest. But other times, for example, they should go off and find out the definitions of basic terms on their own, because otherwise it's going to stop the flow of conversation.

Yes, you're right. I think there are (a lot of, I guess) contexts where it's inappropriate for people to ask simple questions and expect that they get answered, and referring people to websites, or books, or other forums for an answer is entirely appropriate. But again, I don't think it means that someone who is new shouldn't be allowed to ask questions that might seem simple.

This doesn't jibe with "It is not my job to educate you." (Which maybe you disagree with, but I find a valuable concept.)

I don't think I agree completely with the concept.

I think that unfortunately these and other words have been diluted. I would definitely agree with "don't overuse." I do think the concept of privilege is useful enough to not discard.

The concept of "privilege" is real. Yes, there are some folk who are discriminated against in certain circumstances while other folk in these same circumstances would not be. It just seems so weird to call this a "privilege". I wish there was a better term that was more commonly used.

[rax]

Oh, I do agree about this, perhaps I should've been slightly clearer. There have been times in real life where I've had to sit through listening to a conversation that I found extremely distressing. I was unable to leave and the people who were having the conversation refused to stop having the conversation.

I think I was trying to get across the idea that, just because a topic is important, and it's important to you, doesn't necessarily mean that you have the right to discuss it everywhere, ignoring other people's feelings on the matter.

Oh that's not cool. :/ I also think there's a difference worth considering between the right to discuss it everywhere and whether or not doing so is a good idea.

Yes, you're right. I think there are (a lot of, I guess) contexts where it's inappropriate for people to ask simple questions and expect that they get answered, and referring people to websites, or books, or other forums for an answer is entirely appropriate. But again, I don't think it means that someone who is new shouldn't be allowed to ask questions that might seem simple.

I think the problem is that so many times, in conversations that have cycling participants, there's always someone who needs to ask those simple questions. Some communities (##c-o) I think handle this much better than others. I have seen a tendency for people to get frustrated with simple questions and behave dismissively rather than just let someone else answer the question or make the people with the questions deal themselves.