I honestly don't care what you do with it, Daniel. TVD 3x11
I meant to do a recappy post thing much earlier than this, but my subconscious has decided that my life isn't spontaneous enough and we should play this hilarious game where I forget my keys and lock myself out of the apartment at inopportune times. Keep in mind that in my seven years of upstanding key-ownage and apartment living, I have only done
( Read more... )
Elena knows full well that she is heading down that path and that it will be a thing of terribleness. I appreciated that the subtext in 3x04 (in which she asked "what does it say about me?") was that she feels ashamed not just because Damon's awful, but because of the specifically awful things he's done TO HER. "Not right" indeed.
Yes! Yes! This is why I don't understand how there's so much "I hate Elena, the writers have ruined her, because how could she ever like Damon after everything he's done." I'm always like first off, stabbing you, secondly the show is acknowledging all the time that Elena is hating Elena because she wonders how she could ever like Damon after everything he's done. It's there! She is having all the appropriate responses that she should have when forced into close allegiance with the only other person who kind of knows what you are feeling and who has been clear that he thinks you are the bestest and is always touching your chin and also really knows how to wear a v-neck. I am an expert at shipping these pairings, and I have shipped them in far inferior shows! On the whole, I have been extremely impressed with how delicately the TVD writers are handling this and avoiding contorting any of their previous character work to make it happen.
Yes, it seems so. I can't decide if he's totally full of sense or totally deluded. I kind of want Elena to start dating Matt just for Damon's "excuse, what" expression tbh.
Me either. I sort of hope that it's totally deluded in the short run, and full of sense in the long run after he's given up (mainly because I've invested so much time in this pairing by now, that I need to see the train wreck and get my merit badge). For all his patience and understanding and restraint, I think at this point Damon would have a problem with Elena being with anyone other than him or Stefan. He's willing to wait as long as she's mourning Stefan--I think would probably still be willing to wait as she rekindled things with Stefan and then for it to go downhill again--but Elena choosing someone else would just . . . not make sense with whatever grand fantasy is happening in his head. Because despite his inferiorities regarding his relation to Stefan, he has plenty of superiorities when it comes to everyone else, and he feels selfishly that he took his ticket in line a long damn time ago. So basically, I want Elena to date Matt, so we can have all the faces and bitchy moments and snark-covered meltdowns. Glasses being thrown into the fire, also. I am waiting for a decanter to be thrown into the fire, tbh. Maybe this will be it!
...Totes ended up writing even more the second time.
Reply
This is why I don't understand how there's so much "I hate Elena, the writers have ruined her, because how could she ever like Damon after everything he's done." I'm always like first off, stabbing you, secondly the show is acknowledging all the time that Elena is hating Elena because she wonders how she could ever like Damon after everything he's done
YOU ARE ME, I AM YOU. This is one of my favourite things about Damon/Elena currently! It is ~challenging her to question and examine herself and her worldview, etc. etc. And I think the show is doing a nice, subtle, NUANCED job of showing how D/E is in fact very questionable and discomfiting (and certainly not all that is good and right) but also "right" in its own way, in how the connection is real and significant to the characters despite everything, without romanticising anything.
For all his patience and understanding and restraint, I think at this point Damon would have a problem with Elena being with anyone other than him or Stefan.
lol, he so would. He'd rather have Elena/Stefan forever than anything else. Though, I don't think Damon would RAAAAAGE if she started dating Matt. He would be seriously unimpressed and WTF, but he'd prob just throw up his hands and go bone Katherine for a while to pass the time. Because yeah, Damon is vain that way, and he totally takes it granted now that Elena will come around eventually.
It's interesting though that you mention this scenario: He's willing to wait as long as she's mourning Stefan--I think would probably still be willing to wait as she rekindled things with Stefan and then for it to go downhill again -- because that actually is kind of what I'm counting on to happen in canon. I kind of can't see Elena being willing to commit to Damon THIS SOON after the disaster of her and Stefan. It's weird, because as much of a non-committee as she is in her r/ship with Damon, I feel like that's because he means *too much* (both personally and ~symbolically). Like, I really think she sees him now as the only person who accepts her unconditionally (no matter that she doesn't love him back), and if she Goes There with him, there's a danger of her losing that unconditional acceptance, because she ALWAYS loses/destroys the people she loves. IDK if I'm making sense.
But. Yeah. That's sort of why I can't see Elena going for a serious r/ship with Damon any time soon. A lot of people have been saying how unacceptable and implausible it would be for her to go back to Stefan after the events of this episode--but I actually think that would be MORE likely to happen, because her r/ship with Stefan is something that she's already "ruined", so to speak, and I think she'd also want to see if it could be fixed. I feel like that idea scares her a lot less than the possibility of trying and failing with Damon, because Damon is IT, in an extremely twisted sort of way, he's like the one thing she never has to worry about losing or destroying BECAUSE she doesn't ever plan to "have" him.
IDK. What do you think? Am I talking complete nonsense here or what?
Reply
I don't think Damon would RAAAAAGE if she started dating Matt. He would be seriously unimpressed and WTF, but he'd prob just throw up his hands and go bone Katherine for a while to pass the time.
Agreed. I think he would have . . . a fit of pique, but it would pass and he would get over it and realign the future of their relationship in his head according to this new, yet unbearably stupid, information.
I kind of can't see Elena being willing to commit to Damon THIS SOON after the disaster of her and Stefan. It's weird, because as much of a non-committee as she is in her r/ship with Damon, I feel like that's because he means *too much* (both personally and ~symbolically).
EXACTLY. If the show had her move onto Damon this soon, I would see it as somewhat understandable due to her age and the stress of living in Klaus Falls. But it would be dumb of her, and while Elena is often naive and willing to wear blinders about the nature of vampiredom (partially the fault of Stefan and his own desperate insistence about what he is and can handle), she has never been shown to be dumb, so I think it would be a big step back as far as character development goes. Besides, the relationship she has with Damon now is far more interesting, anyway. I agree that they've created this wonderful paradox where an actual romance with Damon feels like less of a possibility the more her feelings for him grow. Because looking at the past year and a half, everything in her whole life has proven to been impermanent . . . weirdly enough, Damon and his (often overbearing) support and acceptance has become the one permanent thing. Why risk that unless you have no other choice? Like you said, it would be much easier to go back and fix a relationship with Stefan, one of the "perfect" permanent things that became broken. Elena's a smart girl, she's fully aware that all the remaining cans of worms--internal and external--that will be opened if she gives in to temptation regarding Damon, and she wants to fix problems, not start them.
It's also interesting how Damon makes this easy for her, because despite his random declarations of romantic feelings, he's not demanding emotionally. He demands a lot of Elena's attention, but he's sort of like a vampire shade plant when it comes to requiring actual emotional nourishment to stay invested in a relationship, mostly because I think he is able to manufacture a lot of a relationship's significance on his own (while taking hot luxury showers, obvs). Actually, most of the time Elena has offered emotional connection he has been like, "Excuse me, CAN'T TAKE IT. Gotta go kill/compell a lady now." So, yeah. THEY ARE IN A GOOD PLACE, now, methinks.
Because of this, the only way I can see D/E happening in a traditional(ish) way at the end of this season is if Elena loses everything else, and the most basic need for comfort obliterates the need to keep her boundaries and her ally reserves intact. On one hand, I love me some Sadness!Sex and all relationships born out of tragedy, I do. But I also love Elena and love the people who would have to be gone for this to happen, so I don't. I don't. Still, it makes me wonder how they are ever going to make D/E happen, even though I really do believe that will, significantly enough that it will please me. What is going to be the big game-changing factor?
(Have been wanting to reply to this all morning, and dumb work kept getting in the way. But now it is lunchtime, and that is MY TIME! My time, to spend effing around on LJ. . .)
Reply
TEEHEE!
Because looking at the past year and a half, everything in her whole life has proven to been impermanent . . . weirdly enough, Damon and his (often overbearing) support and acceptance has become the one permanent thing. Why risk that unless you have no other choice?... and she wants to fix problems, not start them.
How 'bout I just let you do all the talking for me, because you just articulated my brain way better? Needless to say, IAWTC. One of my favourite things about Elena's POV in D/E is how she always tries to let her brain do the talking because she cannot trust her FEELINGS. (And she probably shouldn't.) And I LOVE the way you describe their "paradox", how her and Damon always seem impossible, and yet it is ~happening.
Also, it's interesting that you mention this "fixer" aspect of Elena's personality, because I've always felt like her attraction to Damon must largely be a result of him being "unfixable". He's not like Stefan. She can't delude herself that she can "fix" or "save" Damon, like she tried to do with Stefan (and thereby "fix" herself). Ergo, if she does this with Damon, it won't be because it achieves any sort of "good" (in the philosophical sense); being with Damon would only EVER be about DAMON, because she wants him over any other person she could be with instead. Which... is a pretty damning thing to accept about herself, and it is pretty guaranteed that she is not going to in this dimension. *g*
He demands a lot of Elena's attention, but he's sort of like a vampire shade plant when it comes to requiring actual emotional nourishment to stay invested in a relationship
LOL so true. This is exactly what I mean by the both of them being non-committees. Damon has never expressed a desire for ~commitment~ from Elena. I think the most emotionally demanding he's ever been is that moment where he asks her to "remember the things she felt" -- but again, that's not COMMITMENT that he's requesting, it's a sign that something exists at all. Commitment is not a necessity!
What is going to be the big game-changing factor?
THAT IS THE QUESTION. ITA with your theory about Elena going for it with Damon only if she loses everything else, it will be desperately tragic, because she and Damon (i.e. Damon AND Elena, in a together sense) can only exist in the dark.
And I really don't know! This story is impossible to predict. Which is exciting. The game-changing factor has certainly not been the breakdown of Elena/Stefan, because the ISSUES between Damon and Elena have always had very little to do with her being with another guy. So, no, they're not going to jump on each other just because Stefan is "out of the picture". I wouldn't be surprised if it takes literal years for her and Damon to "happen", actually.
(dumb work. shoo.)
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
And yay! Glad it's not just me reading too much into things~ Of course, I could get totally Jossed, but it does seem extremely unlikely to me that Elena would "jump from one brother to the next", or use Damon as a "rebound", as some have been suggesting. I can see her getting physical with Damon at some point in the near future, but committing emotionally? No. It will be all sorts of messed up awesome. BRING IT. (... my bbs.)
Reply
Leave a comment