Three Books about Non-Western Heroines by Western fantasy writers: Green, Empress, Touched by Venom
Alternative title: Why did everyone hate that one book and let the other two pass by without commotion?
Disclaimer: I'm just a reader struck by certain similarities and differences between 3 novels. I have no information about the sales, careers or mindset of these authors. I'm not trying to harass or accuse anyone of anything. Only one opinion.
While reading Jay Lake's Green, I just couldn't help making comparisons with two other novels by two other writers: Empress by Karen Miller and Touched by Venom by Janine Cross.
Janine Cross has been the object of a huge fandom wank, with a few (? Bear with me, I didn't research that) positive reviews. The whole wank thing inspired me not so much with disgust at the book but with interest - I wanted to read that incredibly bad writing and all around horribleness - and I was disappointed. It's a gritty book, with not a lot of lining around the cloud, but it was interesting and well-written. Imho.
Then there was Empress, a very similar-themed book ( see the table above for similarities), writing by another female author of previously published classic fantasy. As far as I know, no wank or controversy surrounds this work. I have no idea if it sells as great as her more classic fantasy, but I was pointed to it by someone's glowing livejournal review (sorry, forget who you are. I'd love to be reminded).
A year later I bought Green, a fantasy novel written by a much-published male author, known for his steampunk.
In the table above I've pinpointed some obvious similarity and differences, trying to determine why the reception to these rather similar books ( not suggesting that anyone copied anyone else - they're not the same, they're just kind of similar) is so different. Is it the prose? Or maybe the plot? Is it the bestiality that turned reviewers of or the crudity? Do men like/hate it or women? Do books like this need to end well to be received well?
Differences - characterization
The heroine in Jay Lake's Green suffers from bad treatment all her life, but she manages to survive the scarring and her books ends on an up note. Although the threat of abuse by men hangs over her head all her life, it doesn’t actually happen. Gods interfere, but seem to be benevolent towards Green, and she meets a surprising amount of friendship and support all throughout the book.
Empress: The heroine in Empress is treated horribly, and scars her own face to escape the lot of pretty teenagers. She uses men more than they use her, aided by gods. Her personality never recovers from the childhood abuse and she only manages to love her one child, and never achieves happiness although she becomes Empress of her country.
Touched by Venom: the heroine is treated horribly all her life, starved, abused, circumcised, and never recovers from that treatment.
Differences: World building
Green: In many was the world building in Green is traditional. there is a recognizably western, almost northern-European society versus an eastern, mostly East Indian culture. Yes, there are furry humanoids and actual Gods, but there's not much to repel the reader/
Empress: The society the empress lives in has no Western feel, but it has hardly an eastern one either. Yes, there are temple and priest and warrior castes, but I couldn’t' connect it to any specific non-western culture. It's a violent, harsh culture. There is a desert climate as a kind of raison d'être for this harshness.
Touched by Venom: Although the temples and wet humid jungle environs suggest India or South Asia, there is no link to real or historical societies as far as I can tell. It's an extremely harsh environment, especially for women. There are castes ( this does resemble India), there is a lot of physical violence. It's not really clear why people are so poor and oppressed, since the jungle, I imagine, would provide a lot of almost free food if only they'd leave their starving villages. This is the grittiest, harshest, most violent culture from the three books, and described in the most detail.
Green
EmpressTouched by Venom
Non-Western
xxx
Female
xxx
Bron in adverse circumstances
xxx
Abused by men
only the threatxx
Rises to great heights
xx
Unusual beauty
xx
Personality problems
xxxxxx
Female writer
xx
Ends well(for the protag)
x
Sex with dragons
x
Sex with men
x
Sex with women
x
Interfering gods
xx
Damages own beauty
xxhas none
Worldbuilding
Eastern vs. WesternNon-Western, originalEastern, original
Conclusion ( or rather, best guesses)
So why did Touched by Venom receive the negative attention it did? Why didn't Green and Empress? I can never know without mindreading all readers, of course, so I can only guess.
Guess 1: Maybe Touched by Venom was just too gritty and too realistic for the Western readers? Women do get circumcised in many countries on this world. Women are and have been treated this badly in many countries and over many centuries. People just don't want to read about it. The author should have provided something nice and escapist. Dragons of Pern, anyone?
Guess 2: The above is okay, it's just the implied bestiality that went against the Western ( or maybe it was American? ) grain. The author deserves to be torched for even thinking it.
Guess 3: Bestiality and circumcision are fine to read about, but the protagonist just should have been made more sympathetic. Or sacrificed herself for the greater good.
Guess 4: Zarq doesn’t love anybody, not even herself. Green and the empress feel that emotion for at least one person.
Guess 5: There is no reference point with other cultures; the Western one Green finds herself in really helps. And the Empress sequel is in a bog-standard medieval European culture.
Guess 6: Zarq is ugly. Who wants to read about an ugly, unsympathetic protagonist?
Guess 6: Z's and q's in a given name? Gimme a break!
My thoughts? A combination of guess 1-6 did it - pay close attention to 6, imho.
What do you guys think?
Disclaimer: I'm just a reader struck by certain similarities and differences between 3 novels. I have no information about the sales, careers or mindset of these authors. I'm not trying to harass or accuse anyone of anything. Only one opinion.
While reading Jay Lake's Green, I just couldn't help making comparisons with two other novels by two other writers: Empress by Karen Miller and Touched by Venom by Janine Cross.
Janine Cross has been the object of a huge fandom wank, with a few (? Bear with me, I didn't research that) positive reviews. The whole wank thing inspired me not so much with disgust at the book but with interest - I wanted to read that incredibly bad writing and all around horribleness - and I was disappointed. It's a gritty book, with not a lot of lining around the cloud, but it was interesting and well-written. Imho.
Then there was Empress, a very similar-themed book ( see the table above for similarities), writing by another female author of previously published classic fantasy. As far as I know, no wank or controversy surrounds this work. I have no idea if it sells as great as her more classic fantasy, but I was pointed to it by someone's glowing livejournal review (sorry, forget who you are. I'd love to be reminded).
A year later I bought Green, a fantasy novel written by a much-published male author, known for his steampunk.
In the table above I've pinpointed some obvious similarity and differences, trying to determine why the reception to these rather similar books ( not suggesting that anyone copied anyone else - they're not the same, they're just kind of similar) is so different. Is it the prose? Or maybe the plot? Is it the bestiality that turned reviewers of or the crudity? Do men like/hate it or women? Do books like this need to end well to be received well?
Differences - characterization
The heroine in Jay Lake's Green suffers from bad treatment all her life, but she manages to survive the scarring and her books ends on an up note. Although the threat of abuse by men hangs over her head all her life, it doesn’t actually happen. Gods interfere, but seem to be benevolent towards Green, and she meets a surprising amount of friendship and support all throughout the book.
Empress: The heroine in Empress is treated horribly, and scars her own face to escape the lot of pretty teenagers. She uses men more than they use her, aided by gods. Her personality never recovers from the childhood abuse and she only manages to love her one child, and never achieves happiness although she becomes Empress of her country.
Touched by Venom: the heroine is treated horribly all her life, starved, abused, circumcised, and never recovers from that treatment.
Differences: World building
Green: In many was the world building in Green is traditional. there is a recognizably western, almost northern-European society versus an eastern, mostly East Indian culture. Yes, there are furry humanoids and actual Gods, but there's not much to repel the reader/
Empress: The society the empress lives in has no Western feel, but it has hardly an eastern one either. Yes, there are temple and priest and warrior castes, but I couldn’t' connect it to any specific non-western culture. It's a violent, harsh culture. There is a desert climate as a kind of raison d'être for this harshness.
Touched by Venom: Although the temples and wet humid jungle environs suggest India or South Asia, there is no link to real or historical societies as far as I can tell. It's an extremely harsh environment, especially for women. There are castes ( this does resemble India), there is a lot of physical violence. It's not really clear why people are so poor and oppressed, since the jungle, I imagine, would provide a lot of almost free food if only they'd leave their starving villages. This is the grittiest, harshest, most violent culture from the three books, and described in the most detail.
Green
EmpressTouched by Venom
Non-Western
xxx
Female
xxx
Bron in adverse circumstances
xxx
Abused by men
only the threatxx
Rises to great heights
xx
Unusual beauty
xx
Personality problems
xxxxxx
Female writer
xx
Ends well(for the protag)
x
Sex with dragons
x
Sex with men
x
Sex with women
x
Interfering gods
xx
Damages own beauty
xxhas none
Worldbuilding
Eastern vs. WesternNon-Western, originalEastern, original
Conclusion ( or rather, best guesses)
So why did Touched by Venom receive the negative attention it did? Why didn't Green and Empress? I can never know without mindreading all readers, of course, so I can only guess.
Guess 1: Maybe Touched by Venom was just too gritty and too realistic for the Western readers? Women do get circumcised in many countries on this world. Women are and have been treated this badly in many countries and over many centuries. People just don't want to read about it. The author should have provided something nice and escapist. Dragons of Pern, anyone?
Guess 2: The above is okay, it's just the implied bestiality that went against the Western ( or maybe it was American? ) grain. The author deserves to be torched for even thinking it.
Guess 3: Bestiality and circumcision are fine to read about, but the protagonist just should have been made more sympathetic. Or sacrificed herself for the greater good.
Guess 4: Zarq doesn’t love anybody, not even herself. Green and the empress feel that emotion for at least one person.
Guess 5: There is no reference point with other cultures; the Western one Green finds herself in really helps. And the Empress sequel is in a bog-standard medieval European culture.
Guess 6: Zarq is ugly. Who wants to read about an ugly, unsympathetic protagonist?
Guess 6: Z's and q's in a given name? Gimme a break!
My thoughts? A combination of guess 1-6 did it - pay close attention to 6, imho.
What do you guys think?