of science and spirituality (part 2)
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=483475285006821&set=a.456449604376056.98921.367116489976035&type=1
So here are some interesting comments:
Joanna:
Yup! One of the fastest ways to end a conversation with me is to ask me what my sign is.
Kennon:
Well people like you are the problem. Just because you don't believe something doesn't mean we have to deprive the rest of the world of that subject.
Sera:
Ah yes, science, religion and mysticism are incompatible. That old yarn.
Rolando:
Lol every sign says the same thing, its just switched around each month . I really wonder how they come up with these readings :O (probably by gettin' high)
Ariel:
I'm a Gemini, and I just happen to have a lot of traits supposedly associated with Geminis. Of course, the actual explanation is that I'm like that anyway and the whole thing is just a coincidence.
Andy:
If you were to set aside your dogmatic attitude and look look dispassionately at astrology and, having examined it, found that there are observable phenomena and tendencies, would the lack of a model of how it operates cause you to throw out your observations? If so, that's not science.
Aldo:
What baffles me is the thought that people think they're removed from their environment. You cannot remove the mind from the body and the body from the environment, therefore to think we're uninfluenced by celestial bodies when the rest of the universe influences itself is silly. I'd rather say that I simply do not know.
Quinn:
The amount of people defending astrology in these comments saddens me. Go away pls, you obviously don't "fucking love science" if you're so into such an incredibly pseudoscientific ideology.
Sabreen:
FUCKING A, people who believe in horoscoped are mentally handicapped.
Angel:
Im Sagitarius and I believe in examining this concept a bit more.
Tava:
ever try looking into the science of astrology? Zoroaster did.. too bad all that has been lost. but if the moon can affect all the women on earth every month.. which it most certainly does, there is something to that. All the universe rings with music and you cannot hear or see that either.
Akash:
Astrology ain't shit dude
Sean:
Never understood why people actually WANT to believe this stuff. "One-in-a-million" is barely a compliment; astrology claims you're one-in-twelve.
Robert:
The fact of the matter is that your perception defines your reality. If you believe it then for you it is real. No one else may share your interpretation of the world around you, but, you're not ever fundamentally wrong you just have an un-popular interpretation of what you're perceiving.
Andy:
It's ok that you use the word "science" to defend an unwillingness to look at natural phenomena, but in some cases "science" is really "dogma." It makes exactly as much sense as, "The bible doesn't say anything about climate change, so it's just not true."
Paul:
It's amazing how long astrology has managed to remain in our culture in spite of its extraordinarily obvious nonsense.
Josh:
Nothing like the whiners who "fucking love science" but believe in bullshit like astrology with absolutely zero proof.
Mike:
if you don't believe, then your insecure and your imagination fails you, i feel bad and pity those who cant use their brain to unravel the beauty and euphoria that believing in something unknown and that they fear, everyone fears what they don't understand, you fail, your loss, try harder, sucks not being evolved
Natasha:
what's unfortunate is that things are automatically called bullshit when they can not be proven, but also disproven. with the relationship all physical manifestation of the universe shares, why could it not be possible? you don't have to believe it, but it's pretty ridiculous to be so definitive when it comes to the unknowable, which is why theists and atheists are pretty much exactly the same.
Jake:
Natasha, I really like your statement, but really a lot of people do actually believe astrology to be the same as science
James:
Jakes, I wouldn't put it on the same level as the hard sciences, but I do like that, once you make the single leap of faith that planetary bodies affect our personalities, the rest is just geometry.
Jason:
Aries here, I believe in astrology as far as personality types, strength, weakness etc. are concerned... but I find horoscopes to be largely bullshit. They tend to be far more generic, and once you a have a perceived idea of what you THINK is going to happen, you will either make it so or not, consciously or subconsciously. I see the signs as tools of personal reflection, not something to be used to attempt to predict the future!
Danielle:
Astrology is a science in itself and its scope extends far beyond mere horoscopes and personality traits. Any genuine scientists will know that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Be informed before writing something off.
Jason:
Some of the greatest scientific minds in history were also Astrologers. Look it up!
Deb:
Astrology was actually the first science... To study the stars and document in great detail the movement of stars and planets and live their lives by the cosmic structure. When studied, it actually is the reason for many of our systems and symbols on this planet. I love astrology AND astronomy.
Mark:
Lol!! So many people saying astrology is a science. I'm hopeful people are just confusing the terms astrology and astronomy!
Jason:
"Science begins with imagination my friends. Remember that." So do fairy tales. Science may begin with imagination, but it is immediately quantified by hypothesis, tested by experiments and supported by evidence. Astrology is none of the above.
Deb:
The moon is essential to our planet, and affects all of the water on earth. Humans are made up of 60% water. This is why women have a MONTHY cycle, the same as the moon cycles. If you don't thing these planets with HUGE amounts of energy and gravitational pull don't affect us, that's just absurd.
Chantelle:
Yes! Of course, in this world of nigh on seven billion souls there are, obviously, only twelve personality types! Why wasn't that more obvious?? Astrology is science in the same way that creationism is science- it's a crutch for people who can't think for themselves.
Jason:
I think a lot of the argument against Astrology comes from people who are TOO practically minded. Those people never make new discoveries in science, only refine discoveries made by others.
Loxfin:
Wow this just proves your strong christianity background / side. you know astrology has nothing to do with religion and is more based on astronomy. you know the scientific study of the stars in relation to a person's psychological, emotional and physical interaction with other human... If studying that is not science i don't know what it... hell it may even be able to predict who pushes the button. it is when you get people of faith involved do we get shit like horoscopes.
Nicole:
here's a lot more to astrology then many people think. It is surprisingly accurate. I think people should keep an open mind and test it out as I have. Most people I meet do line up with their sub and moon signs. Like someone already said the moon has a huge impact on life here on earth, why wouldn't the other planets in our solar system. It's really a very complex science. Keep an open mind.
Trudy:
If you've never taken the time to drop your ego and immerse yourself in the spirit realm and spend YEARS studying astrology, you shouldn't post this. Just saying.
Rachael:
This is very hateful and offensive, and so are many of the comments. No one is forcing you to believe astrology. No one said that it is 100% accurate/true, or that you have to accept all of it to accept any of it. I'm not even saying what I do or don't believe, here. But there are mysteries in this universe that we do not know the truth about, yet. Every day, science is discovering that things people used to scoff at are actually real. You act like creativity and imagination and speculation cannot exist in a person simultaneously with a love of true science...you compare people with open minds to mentally retarded people (showing how you are ableist as well as bigoted in other ways)...you alienate those who have a different experience of life...you alienate them from the scientific community. Shame on you. And honestly, if someone treated their girlfriend this way, she is better off without them because they are clearly controlling and probably abusive. That's a sick way to treat someone, just because you see things differently. That's bigotry.
Jason:
The very reason we're held together is the precise balance of gravity on this planet. This is why we look and move the way we do and not some other way. Is it so hard to believe that other bodies laying on the blanket of gravity in the relatively immediate vicinity might just have an effect on things so inconceivably small that they only exist in scientific theory? Let's not get started on the concepts of light and consciousness, and how that places a part in this "pseudo-science".
Felix:
For those saying astrology is science, to be open minded etc., you do realise there have been plenty of studies into Astrology and none have shown it to be anything more than pseudoscience? For example, people of different star signs have been supplied astrological summaries of their personality and usually rated them as very accurate, despite them all getting the same summary.
Leah:
I agree science is fantastic. I was raised by a biologist and have done many science courses in university. But I am constantly blown away by the arrogance and self righteousness of hardcore "scientists". You guys are promoting truth- perhaps present it in a way that doesn't insult those who may need to learn more about it and have beliefs beyond the dry logic you propagate. Open your minds, be creative, and accept that there is more to life than things that can be "proven/supported" by scienctific study. Here's a question- have you ever been in love? If so I dare you to quantify or qualify it using scientific methods. In my ideal world, science and spirituality (NOT religion) will be equally accepted. Only then will all our possibilites as human beings explode to the surface.
James:
It boggles my mind that people accept Astrology. It's so transparently stupid (and yes, that includes "real" astrology, not just newspaper horoscopes). Homeopathy makes more sense, and that's saying something.
Tim:
Just retarded humans making shit up again,no different to 'little green pixies live in my attic'.I never understand why certain things get given the time of day like christianity,ghosts or palmistry,you are a cunt if you believe in any of them.
Jason:
that's the beautiful thing about being science: if you want to debate it, present an argument with evidence and wait for the rebuttle. If you're theory is sound, or at least has some ground to it, people will hear you out. I must have read 200+ comments on this and the closest thing to a "reason" for believing in it is "science doesn't know everything". Sorry but if the lack of an explanation means whatever you imagine is correct, then that has some historical implications:
- America doesn't exist, it's just a giant sea monster
- The world is flat and is held up a big guy with it on his shoulders
- Headaches are caused by demons
Astrology has been around since before written language, given it's time frame for collecting evidence, you have 2 possible solutions:
A) it's a dud
B) Astrologists are incredibly lazy
Rachael:
Many genius scientists throughout history thought there was/might be something to astrology...when you say things like this, you are disrespecting them, as well as just being disrespectful in general. You are disrespecting those in the scientific community who do question and think creatively. You are alienating a large chunk of your community and putting off potential friends and allies. Not wise. A few years back, science snots were scoffing at the ideas about energy that they viewed as hogwash...now science is being able to measure it and finding out that a lot of that stuff was correct. Everything is made of energy. Energies effect one another. It isn't too far of a stretch to see that things within the same solar system, or universe, might influence each other. We don't understand it scientifically YET- but don't write it off completely...unless you don't mind looking like a jerk and an idiot when science does find a way to prove it...but don't mock those of us who choose to keep an open mind and be open to possibilities.
George:
But astrology is easily validated and accurate. Obviously it shouldn't be oversimplified. Don't just go by sun sign because that's like 1% of the total data. The whole natal chart must be done and interplanetary aspects need to be taken into account. I've done charts for an array of different people and it always works perfectly. It requires no faith at all, the data is what it is and it's true whether you believe it or not. Do some deep research before you discredit it. Try astro.com and cafeastrology.com for starters. Get the info before closing your mind. I'm tired of ignorant people saying bullshit when they don't know the facts.
Mariane:
this post is really stupid,imagination and dreams is what keeps making life interesting, life is sad and boring itself, retarded are those who lack of imagination. and judge others just because they dont think the way they do, i like science but i think imagination is way more interesting i can go any place i want and see anything i want.
Edward:
it always amazes me how many people (even those who are members of a science group on facebook) argue for the legitimacy of astrology. There is no objective evidence that astrology is accurate. There is plenty of objective evidence that astrology is ineffective, as people tend to agree with various traits that are attributed to certain "signs" regardless of which "sign" the trait is attributed to. The trick is the traits attributed to various signs are overwhelmingly positive, so people will be inclined to accept them. Astrology is not a science, but there is quite a bit of science involved in debunking it.
Pau:
Scientific friends, I am a scientist, and please, you do not have to like astrology, but at least respect it, otherwise, we will be the same as those who deny what they do not understand about us or our sciences.
Edward:
real science leads to research, peer reviewed studies, criticism, and often times practical results. Not unscrutinised, unreviewed, news paper columns written by people with no scientific background. Sorry astrology, if you want to be taken seriously, you're going to have to live up to the extremely high standards set by proper sciences.
Jason:
Astrology doesn't claim that any two signs definitely WILL or WILL NOT get a long or work out in a relationship.. it merely presents a estimation of the chances that you will work it out based on the personality traits presented.
Rickie:
You cannot say that astrology is bullshit...unless you've actually studied it.I have.I have a ton of books on the matter..Guess what?It holds water.you can even forecast events and their nature.Sydney Omarr is an astrologer employed by the U.S. government, that actually predicted J.K's death...you'd think PEOPLE WHO LOVE SCIENCE READ.
Zaynab:
Lol science is still catching up to what man has inherently known. How can something still in its infancy deny something that humans have utilized for centuries. I find it absurd that more studies haven't been done but yet science is blinded by the senses so we shall always have a disadvantage.
Rachael:
I'm not religious, personally I think religion is mind control. However, I think you should be aware of your responsibility as a representative of the science community: if you alienate people of different beliefs with your snobbery and put them off science (possibly for life), you will end up driving off the people who need science most (fundies, uneducated people, etc.) This is a step in that direction. You should be trying to be inclusive and draw people to science. Not make them feel unwelcome, and like they don't belong in the community.
Ceara:
Horoscopes in the news paper are not accurate anyone actually into Astrology would tell you that. And only basing things off someone's sun sign, which is the only bit of astrology most people seem know about themselves (ie girlfriend is a Capricorn-Sun sign), is very vague. Everyone's chart is like a finger print and unless you've actually studied Astrology then you really shouldn't talk badly about things you have zero knowledge on. That's no better then Creationist's dissing Evolution without actually studying it.
Sylvia:
there is a lot behind astrology. most people just don't study it enough to understand it. they remain ignorant to it & reject it for that same reason. you are not JUST your main sign. if that were true, there would be only twelve personalities in the world. we are a cluster of many different signs depending on which planet was in which constellation. i didn't believe it either until i seriously started studying it. its common knowledge that there are more crimes during a full moon because out effects your behavior so that alone just proves how much it does effect us. if they can effect our tides & everything else on our planet, to say it doesn't effect you is, again, a ignorant thing to say. now go ahead & complain that i'm wrong, stupid & have "offended" you. but unless you have studied up on it A LOT then u really don't care what you have to say.
Jason:
I've noticed a pattern with the people who are "believers" in Astrology merely claiming their belief and trying to shed some light on it, while most arguing against it are just going "nu uh you're stupid!". Astrology might not be your cup of tea, sure. But we observe plenty of things that are attempted to be explained by religion or spirituality and not by science. Has there been a scientific study done about why people behave morally? Good will? Some would say that it's because those things facilitate progress.. but what's the point of progress? Why do we try to move "forward"? What good does it do us? Where, scientifically or mathematically, is there room for sentience or consciousness? Wouldn't things go more smoothly without it? Can there be an existence without experience? There are many things science has yet to answer, but does that mean they should be written off?
Sylvia:
astrology has absolutely nothing to do with religion. that's the dumbest thing I've heard on here so far. you aren't worshipping anything, you are mapping out your personality. do your birth charts & get an astrology book. enlighten yourselves.
Frankie:
Great minds studied astrology for thousands of years, great scientific minds
Rachael:
I have no problem with skepticism. I have a problem with mockery and snobbery. I am a skeptic, too. My skepticism goes both ways, so it is a more equal, fair, and scientific skepticism...I am simultaneously skeptical about astrology having any basis in reality and skeptical of dismissing it as not possibly having any basis in reality. This means I have no bias...which is how scientists are supposed to think...a scientist who aims to disprove the existence of something is not being truly scientific. You are supposed to allow for variables, even unseen, and human error, and you are supposed to experiment without a projected outcome and accept the data as it comes to you. We do not have a way to prove or disprove astrological influence as of yet. It looks incredibly foolish to mock something you cannot concretely prove or disprove. THAT is what I mean by having an open mind. If you don't get it, you haven't been paying attention, or you just don't want to get it.
Caroline:
I also want to add that Astrology is the FATHER of Astronomy. FACT.
As for those who minimizes or disregards Astrology, you have no position on the matter if you have not studied it in depth. And I mean, IN DEPTH, not just your Sun, Moon, and Rising signs, but also ASPECTS and comparisons between natal and progressive charts, for instance. You have no position if all you do is weigh your position based on literature written by those who do not believe in reincarnation, who do not believe in a Higher Power other then themselves, or who bases their opinion drawing from literature written by incredibly biased scientists who never even delved into the understanding of Astrology by becoming a student first and foremost.
All planets have vibrational fields. It interacts with the Universe. Humans have vibrational fields, and this is scientific and medical fact. Even energy healing has been proven to be beneficial in complimentary alternative medicine. It is ignorant to say that what happens millions of miles away does not have an effect on our psyche and physical bodies throughout our lives. In doing so, then you are refuting the theories that should the Moon ever be destroyed, that it would create massive changes to our magnetic poles here on Earth, resulting in violent, environmental changes to our seas and land, as well as the affect it would have on human behavior. Studies have already proven that during full moons, violent crimes and crazy behavior among human beings, and even animals, increases. There may not be a way to study the entire scope of these vibrations directly as they are unseen, much like Dark Energy and Dark Matter, but to those unbelievers, I bet you are not doubting that Dark Energy or Dark Matter exists. Just because you cannot see it in place, does not mean you cannot observe its effects.
Frank:
I feel that sometimes people get confused by Belief and Understanding. A lot of people are so quick to slag astrology when they actually know nothing about it. It is so much more than putting everyone in one out of 12 boxes. We are so much more complex than that. Astrology has been totally exploited and abused, this sacred practice has been destroyed and spat on and been widely misunderstood. The problem is when it faces science today and this debate begins, that astrology is not a science.. Its hair pulling for both sides.. Because astrology isn't a science, not in the world of science that we have today... Its, dare i say, beyond today's science.. Because it involves Vibrations that we are yet to understand and explain in a coherent way, but they are vibrations that have been running through us since the beginning of time. And this is where i feel that science today lets us down, they are Limited and unwilling to explore deeper, Its the human psych that we're talking about here, ya'll really think its going to be that easy to crack and lay out in a perfect little calculation? This guy is pretty cool though..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAvzsjcBtx8 This is the closest iv seen to explaining the vibrations and it kinda makes sense as humans are made of around %65-90 water, and the Moon has a huge pull on the sea so why the blazes would it not have a pull on us, and if that is so who's to say the other planets are not involved.... Astrology should not be used for prediction as that is just evil and screws up peoples lives, We make our own destiny! Astrology is a map, it should be used to understand ourselves and each other and for us to remember that our lives are in our hands and that we should take responsibility for who we are!
Michael:
It's amazing how so many people say it very wide and could apply to anyone or they may say that it doesn't apply to them. But do you even fully know what astrology is? If i asked for a birth chart, would you understand what i was asking for? Before you can say something is bullshit or incorrect data then please, learn everything you can about the topic. Otherwise, your analysis is bullshit.
Matthew:
I don't think astrology holds any merit but I do think it's a lot of fun. What's the matter, you can't have fun anymore? To all the people relentlessly bashing astrology: get over yourself and lighten up.
Eirik:
I find it incredibly ironic when what I would call your typical scientific atheist goes off about how unreliable the zodiac is for fortune telling. You're supposed to learn and make informed judgements based on evidence... yet I never hear anyone say: "You know, the zodiac was never intended to be used to predict your personal future using your birthday. It's an old anthropomorphic clock from when we used to tell time using celestial features, which evolved into a form of governance for different cults and trades, the version most Europeans are familiar with migrated from Egypt to Rome to become the foundation of the Roman Catholic Church." No, it's always: "Oh we proved it doesn't work in a study." Way to understand a fraction of the issue, and focus on the most irrelevant part. I'll be waiting when you figure out that every aspect of your society still operates on this old system, including science.
Artur:
"In the last few years there has been a steady spurt in the number of parents who insist on elective caesarean to gain a better horoscope for their babies. However, I never encourage this", says Dr. Kalyani Devi, a leading gynaecologist in Kochi. "The trend has risen to such an alarming level that husbands of some of our patients give prefixed time for the caesareanto get their elective star".
And there it is, lawl. Food for thought, I guess, though at the end of the day I'mma still do my thing. WTF @ people trynna manipulate birth time. That's so fucking dumb. But inb4 "astrology is the reason parents have more babies in Dragon years and/or want babies born at certain times" argument, let me remind you that SCIENCE is a manipulative little bitch just the same. In fact, this isn't even about astrology or science; it's about people being manipulative little cunts. If they had their way, their kids would be blue-eyed and with excellent mathematical skills, an affinity for music (esp. piano) and six feet tall. One day, we'll definitely be able to manipulate (i.e. more than we can now) unborn children, and it'll be done via science, not astrology. Demonizing either astrology (or New Age shit in general) and/or Science is utterly stupid; we ourselves are the demons, and they have downsides because they are an extension of our minds and spirits.
So here are some interesting comments:
Joanna:
Yup! One of the fastest ways to end a conversation with me is to ask me what my sign is.
Kennon:
Well people like you are the problem. Just because you don't believe something doesn't mean we have to deprive the rest of the world of that subject.
Sera:
Ah yes, science, religion and mysticism are incompatible. That old yarn.
Rolando:
Lol every sign says the same thing, its just switched around each month . I really wonder how they come up with these readings :O (probably by gettin' high)
Ariel:
I'm a Gemini, and I just happen to have a lot of traits supposedly associated with Geminis. Of course, the actual explanation is that I'm like that anyway and the whole thing is just a coincidence.
Andy:
If you were to set aside your dogmatic attitude and look look dispassionately at astrology and, having examined it, found that there are observable phenomena and tendencies, would the lack of a model of how it operates cause you to throw out your observations? If so, that's not science.
Aldo:
What baffles me is the thought that people think they're removed from their environment. You cannot remove the mind from the body and the body from the environment, therefore to think we're uninfluenced by celestial bodies when the rest of the universe influences itself is silly. I'd rather say that I simply do not know.
Quinn:
The amount of people defending astrology in these comments saddens me. Go away pls, you obviously don't "fucking love science" if you're so into such an incredibly pseudoscientific ideology.
Sabreen:
FUCKING A, people who believe in horoscoped are mentally handicapped.
Angel:
Im Sagitarius and I believe in examining this concept a bit more.
Tava:
ever try looking into the science of astrology? Zoroaster did.. too bad all that has been lost. but if the moon can affect all the women on earth every month.. which it most certainly does, there is something to that. All the universe rings with music and you cannot hear or see that either.
Akash:
Astrology ain't shit dude
Sean:
Never understood why people actually WANT to believe this stuff. "One-in-a-million" is barely a compliment; astrology claims you're one-in-twelve.
Robert:
The fact of the matter is that your perception defines your reality. If you believe it then for you it is real. No one else may share your interpretation of the world around you, but, you're not ever fundamentally wrong you just have an un-popular interpretation of what you're perceiving.
Andy:
It's ok that you use the word "science" to defend an unwillingness to look at natural phenomena, but in some cases "science" is really "dogma." It makes exactly as much sense as, "The bible doesn't say anything about climate change, so it's just not true."
Paul:
It's amazing how long astrology has managed to remain in our culture in spite of its extraordinarily obvious nonsense.
Josh:
Nothing like the whiners who "fucking love science" but believe in bullshit like astrology with absolutely zero proof.
Mike:
if you don't believe, then your insecure and your imagination fails you, i feel bad and pity those who cant use their brain to unravel the beauty and euphoria that believing in something unknown and that they fear, everyone fears what they don't understand, you fail, your loss, try harder, sucks not being evolved
Natasha:
what's unfortunate is that things are automatically called bullshit when they can not be proven, but also disproven. with the relationship all physical manifestation of the universe shares, why could it not be possible? you don't have to believe it, but it's pretty ridiculous to be so definitive when it comes to the unknowable, which is why theists and atheists are pretty much exactly the same.
Jake:
Natasha, I really like your statement, but really a lot of people do actually believe astrology to be the same as science
James:
Jakes, I wouldn't put it on the same level as the hard sciences, but I do like that, once you make the single leap of faith that planetary bodies affect our personalities, the rest is just geometry.
Jason:
Aries here, I believe in astrology as far as personality types, strength, weakness etc. are concerned... but I find horoscopes to be largely bullshit. They tend to be far more generic, and once you a have a perceived idea of what you THINK is going to happen, you will either make it so or not, consciously or subconsciously. I see the signs as tools of personal reflection, not something to be used to attempt to predict the future!
Danielle:
Astrology is a science in itself and its scope extends far beyond mere horoscopes and personality traits. Any genuine scientists will know that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Be informed before writing something off.
Jason:
Some of the greatest scientific minds in history were also Astrologers. Look it up!
Deb:
Astrology was actually the first science... To study the stars and document in great detail the movement of stars and planets and live their lives by the cosmic structure. When studied, it actually is the reason for many of our systems and symbols on this planet. I love astrology AND astronomy.
Mark:
Lol!! So many people saying astrology is a science. I'm hopeful people are just confusing the terms astrology and astronomy!
Jason:
"Science begins with imagination my friends. Remember that." So do fairy tales. Science may begin with imagination, but it is immediately quantified by hypothesis, tested by experiments and supported by evidence. Astrology is none of the above.
Deb:
The moon is essential to our planet, and affects all of the water on earth. Humans are made up of 60% water. This is why women have a MONTHY cycle, the same as the moon cycles. If you don't thing these planets with HUGE amounts of energy and gravitational pull don't affect us, that's just absurd.
Chantelle:
Yes! Of course, in this world of nigh on seven billion souls there are, obviously, only twelve personality types! Why wasn't that more obvious?? Astrology is science in the same way that creationism is science- it's a crutch for people who can't think for themselves.
Jason:
I think a lot of the argument against Astrology comes from people who are TOO practically minded. Those people never make new discoveries in science, only refine discoveries made by others.
Loxfin:
Wow this just proves your strong christianity background / side. you know astrology has nothing to do with religion and is more based on astronomy. you know the scientific study of the stars in relation to a person's psychological, emotional and physical interaction with other human... If studying that is not science i don't know what it... hell it may even be able to predict who pushes the button. it is when you get people of faith involved do we get shit like horoscopes.
Nicole:
here's a lot more to astrology then many people think. It is surprisingly accurate. I think people should keep an open mind and test it out as I have. Most people I meet do line up with their sub and moon signs. Like someone already said the moon has a huge impact on life here on earth, why wouldn't the other planets in our solar system. It's really a very complex science. Keep an open mind.
Trudy:
If you've never taken the time to drop your ego and immerse yourself in the spirit realm and spend YEARS studying astrology, you shouldn't post this. Just saying.
Rachael:
This is very hateful and offensive, and so are many of the comments. No one is forcing you to believe astrology. No one said that it is 100% accurate/true, or that you have to accept all of it to accept any of it. I'm not even saying what I do or don't believe, here. But there are mysteries in this universe that we do not know the truth about, yet. Every day, science is discovering that things people used to scoff at are actually real. You act like creativity and imagination and speculation cannot exist in a person simultaneously with a love of true science...you compare people with open minds to mentally retarded people (showing how you are ableist as well as bigoted in other ways)...you alienate those who have a different experience of life...you alienate them from the scientific community. Shame on you. And honestly, if someone treated their girlfriend this way, she is better off without them because they are clearly controlling and probably abusive. That's a sick way to treat someone, just because you see things differently. That's bigotry.
Jason:
The very reason we're held together is the precise balance of gravity on this planet. This is why we look and move the way we do and not some other way. Is it so hard to believe that other bodies laying on the blanket of gravity in the relatively immediate vicinity might just have an effect on things so inconceivably small that they only exist in scientific theory? Let's not get started on the concepts of light and consciousness, and how that places a part in this "pseudo-science".
Felix:
For those saying astrology is science, to be open minded etc., you do realise there have been plenty of studies into Astrology and none have shown it to be anything more than pseudoscience? For example, people of different star signs have been supplied astrological summaries of their personality and usually rated them as very accurate, despite them all getting the same summary.
Leah:
I agree science is fantastic. I was raised by a biologist and have done many science courses in university. But I am constantly blown away by the arrogance and self righteousness of hardcore "scientists". You guys are promoting truth- perhaps present it in a way that doesn't insult those who may need to learn more about it and have beliefs beyond the dry logic you propagate. Open your minds, be creative, and accept that there is more to life than things that can be "proven/supported" by scienctific study. Here's a question- have you ever been in love? If so I dare you to quantify or qualify it using scientific methods. In my ideal world, science and spirituality (NOT religion) will be equally accepted. Only then will all our possibilites as human beings explode to the surface.
James:
It boggles my mind that people accept Astrology. It's so transparently stupid (and yes, that includes "real" astrology, not just newspaper horoscopes). Homeopathy makes more sense, and that's saying something.
Tim:
Just retarded humans making shit up again,no different to 'little green pixies live in my attic'.I never understand why certain things get given the time of day like christianity,ghosts or palmistry,you are a cunt if you believe in any of them.
Jason:
that's the beautiful thing about being science: if you want to debate it, present an argument with evidence and wait for the rebuttle. If you're theory is sound, or at least has some ground to it, people will hear you out. I must have read 200+ comments on this and the closest thing to a "reason" for believing in it is "science doesn't know everything". Sorry but if the lack of an explanation means whatever you imagine is correct, then that has some historical implications:
- America doesn't exist, it's just a giant sea monster
- The world is flat and is held up a big guy with it on his shoulders
- Headaches are caused by demons
Astrology has been around since before written language, given it's time frame for collecting evidence, you have 2 possible solutions:
A) it's a dud
B) Astrologists are incredibly lazy
Rachael:
Many genius scientists throughout history thought there was/might be something to astrology...when you say things like this, you are disrespecting them, as well as just being disrespectful in general. You are disrespecting those in the scientific community who do question and think creatively. You are alienating a large chunk of your community and putting off potential friends and allies. Not wise. A few years back, science snots were scoffing at the ideas about energy that they viewed as hogwash...now science is being able to measure it and finding out that a lot of that stuff was correct. Everything is made of energy. Energies effect one another. It isn't too far of a stretch to see that things within the same solar system, or universe, might influence each other. We don't understand it scientifically YET- but don't write it off completely...unless you don't mind looking like a jerk and an idiot when science does find a way to prove it...but don't mock those of us who choose to keep an open mind and be open to possibilities.
George:
But astrology is easily validated and accurate. Obviously it shouldn't be oversimplified. Don't just go by sun sign because that's like 1% of the total data. The whole natal chart must be done and interplanetary aspects need to be taken into account. I've done charts for an array of different people and it always works perfectly. It requires no faith at all, the data is what it is and it's true whether you believe it or not. Do some deep research before you discredit it. Try astro.com and cafeastrology.com for starters. Get the info before closing your mind. I'm tired of ignorant people saying bullshit when they don't know the facts.
Mariane:
this post is really stupid,imagination and dreams is what keeps making life interesting, life is sad and boring itself, retarded are those who lack of imagination. and judge others just because they dont think the way they do, i like science but i think imagination is way more interesting i can go any place i want and see anything i want.
Edward:
it always amazes me how many people (even those who are members of a science group on facebook) argue for the legitimacy of astrology. There is no objective evidence that astrology is accurate. There is plenty of objective evidence that astrology is ineffective, as people tend to agree with various traits that are attributed to certain "signs" regardless of which "sign" the trait is attributed to. The trick is the traits attributed to various signs are overwhelmingly positive, so people will be inclined to accept them. Astrology is not a science, but there is quite a bit of science involved in debunking it.
Pau:
Scientific friends, I am a scientist, and please, you do not have to like astrology, but at least respect it, otherwise, we will be the same as those who deny what they do not understand about us or our sciences.
Edward:
real science leads to research, peer reviewed studies, criticism, and often times practical results. Not unscrutinised, unreviewed, news paper columns written by people with no scientific background. Sorry astrology, if you want to be taken seriously, you're going to have to live up to the extremely high standards set by proper sciences.
Jason:
Astrology doesn't claim that any two signs definitely WILL or WILL NOT get a long or work out in a relationship.. it merely presents a estimation of the chances that you will work it out based on the personality traits presented.
Rickie:
You cannot say that astrology is bullshit...unless you've actually studied it.I have.I have a ton of books on the matter..Guess what?It holds water.you can even forecast events and their nature.Sydney Omarr is an astrologer employed by the U.S. government, that actually predicted J.K's death...you'd think PEOPLE WHO LOVE SCIENCE READ.
Zaynab:
Lol science is still catching up to what man has inherently known. How can something still in its infancy deny something that humans have utilized for centuries. I find it absurd that more studies haven't been done but yet science is blinded by the senses so we shall always have a disadvantage.
Rachael:
I'm not religious, personally I think religion is mind control. However, I think you should be aware of your responsibility as a representative of the science community: if you alienate people of different beliefs with your snobbery and put them off science (possibly for life), you will end up driving off the people who need science most (fundies, uneducated people, etc.) This is a step in that direction. You should be trying to be inclusive and draw people to science. Not make them feel unwelcome, and like they don't belong in the community.
Ceara:
Horoscopes in the news paper are not accurate anyone actually into Astrology would tell you that. And only basing things off someone's sun sign, which is the only bit of astrology most people seem know about themselves (ie girlfriend is a Capricorn-Sun sign), is very vague. Everyone's chart is like a finger print and unless you've actually studied Astrology then you really shouldn't talk badly about things you have zero knowledge on. That's no better then Creationist's dissing Evolution without actually studying it.
Sylvia:
there is a lot behind astrology. most people just don't study it enough to understand it. they remain ignorant to it & reject it for that same reason. you are not JUST your main sign. if that were true, there would be only twelve personalities in the world. we are a cluster of many different signs depending on which planet was in which constellation. i didn't believe it either until i seriously started studying it. its common knowledge that there are more crimes during a full moon because out effects your behavior so that alone just proves how much it does effect us. if they can effect our tides & everything else on our planet, to say it doesn't effect you is, again, a ignorant thing to say. now go ahead & complain that i'm wrong, stupid & have "offended" you. but unless you have studied up on it A LOT then u really don't care what you have to say.
Jason:
I've noticed a pattern with the people who are "believers" in Astrology merely claiming their belief and trying to shed some light on it, while most arguing against it are just going "nu uh you're stupid!". Astrology might not be your cup of tea, sure. But we observe plenty of things that are attempted to be explained by religion or spirituality and not by science. Has there been a scientific study done about why people behave morally? Good will? Some would say that it's because those things facilitate progress.. but what's the point of progress? Why do we try to move "forward"? What good does it do us? Where, scientifically or mathematically, is there room for sentience or consciousness? Wouldn't things go more smoothly without it? Can there be an existence without experience? There are many things science has yet to answer, but does that mean they should be written off?
Sylvia:
astrology has absolutely nothing to do with religion. that's the dumbest thing I've heard on here so far. you aren't worshipping anything, you are mapping out your personality. do your birth charts & get an astrology book. enlighten yourselves.
Frankie:
Great minds studied astrology for thousands of years, great scientific minds
Rachael:
I have no problem with skepticism. I have a problem with mockery and snobbery. I am a skeptic, too. My skepticism goes both ways, so it is a more equal, fair, and scientific skepticism...I am simultaneously skeptical about astrology having any basis in reality and skeptical of dismissing it as not possibly having any basis in reality. This means I have no bias...which is how scientists are supposed to think...a scientist who aims to disprove the existence of something is not being truly scientific. You are supposed to allow for variables, even unseen, and human error, and you are supposed to experiment without a projected outcome and accept the data as it comes to you. We do not have a way to prove or disprove astrological influence as of yet. It looks incredibly foolish to mock something you cannot concretely prove or disprove. THAT is what I mean by having an open mind. If you don't get it, you haven't been paying attention, or you just don't want to get it.
Caroline:
I also want to add that Astrology is the FATHER of Astronomy. FACT.
As for those who minimizes or disregards Astrology, you have no position on the matter if you have not studied it in depth. And I mean, IN DEPTH, not just your Sun, Moon, and Rising signs, but also ASPECTS and comparisons between natal and progressive charts, for instance. You have no position if all you do is weigh your position based on literature written by those who do not believe in reincarnation, who do not believe in a Higher Power other then themselves, or who bases their opinion drawing from literature written by incredibly biased scientists who never even delved into the understanding of Astrology by becoming a student first and foremost.
All planets have vibrational fields. It interacts with the Universe. Humans have vibrational fields, and this is scientific and medical fact. Even energy healing has been proven to be beneficial in complimentary alternative medicine. It is ignorant to say that what happens millions of miles away does not have an effect on our psyche and physical bodies throughout our lives. In doing so, then you are refuting the theories that should the Moon ever be destroyed, that it would create massive changes to our magnetic poles here on Earth, resulting in violent, environmental changes to our seas and land, as well as the affect it would have on human behavior. Studies have already proven that during full moons, violent crimes and crazy behavior among human beings, and even animals, increases. There may not be a way to study the entire scope of these vibrations directly as they are unseen, much like Dark Energy and Dark Matter, but to those unbelievers, I bet you are not doubting that Dark Energy or Dark Matter exists. Just because you cannot see it in place, does not mean you cannot observe its effects.
Frank:
I feel that sometimes people get confused by Belief and Understanding. A lot of people are so quick to slag astrology when they actually know nothing about it. It is so much more than putting everyone in one out of 12 boxes. We are so much more complex than that. Astrology has been totally exploited and abused, this sacred practice has been destroyed and spat on and been widely misunderstood. The problem is when it faces science today and this debate begins, that astrology is not a science.. Its hair pulling for both sides.. Because astrology isn't a science, not in the world of science that we have today... Its, dare i say, beyond today's science.. Because it involves Vibrations that we are yet to understand and explain in a coherent way, but they are vibrations that have been running through us since the beginning of time. And this is where i feel that science today lets us down, they are Limited and unwilling to explore deeper, Its the human psych that we're talking about here, ya'll really think its going to be that easy to crack and lay out in a perfect little calculation? This guy is pretty cool though..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAvzsjcBtx8 This is the closest iv seen to explaining the vibrations and it kinda makes sense as humans are made of around %65-90 water, and the Moon has a huge pull on the sea so why the blazes would it not have a pull on us, and if that is so who's to say the other planets are not involved.... Astrology should not be used for prediction as that is just evil and screws up peoples lives, We make our own destiny! Astrology is a map, it should be used to understand ourselves and each other and for us to remember that our lives are in our hands and that we should take responsibility for who we are!
Michael:
It's amazing how so many people say it very wide and could apply to anyone or they may say that it doesn't apply to them. But do you even fully know what astrology is? If i asked for a birth chart, would you understand what i was asking for? Before you can say something is bullshit or incorrect data then please, learn everything you can about the topic. Otherwise, your analysis is bullshit.
Matthew:
I don't think astrology holds any merit but I do think it's a lot of fun. What's the matter, you can't have fun anymore? To all the people relentlessly bashing astrology: get over yourself and lighten up.
Eirik:
I find it incredibly ironic when what I would call your typical scientific atheist goes off about how unreliable the zodiac is for fortune telling. You're supposed to learn and make informed judgements based on evidence... yet I never hear anyone say: "You know, the zodiac was never intended to be used to predict your personal future using your birthday. It's an old anthropomorphic clock from when we used to tell time using celestial features, which evolved into a form of governance for different cults and trades, the version most Europeans are familiar with migrated from Egypt to Rome to become the foundation of the Roman Catholic Church." No, it's always: "Oh we proved it doesn't work in a study." Way to understand a fraction of the issue, and focus on the most irrelevant part. I'll be waiting when you figure out that every aspect of your society still operates on this old system, including science.
Artur:
"In the last few years there has been a steady spurt in the number of parents who insist on elective caesarean to gain a better horoscope for their babies. However, I never encourage this", says Dr. Kalyani Devi, a leading gynaecologist in Kochi. "The trend has risen to such an alarming level that husbands of some of our patients give prefixed time for the caesareanto get their elective star".
And there it is, lawl. Food for thought, I guess, though at the end of the day I'mma still do my thing. WTF @ people trynna manipulate birth time. That's so fucking dumb. But inb4 "astrology is the reason parents have more babies in Dragon years and/or want babies born at certain times" argument, let me remind you that SCIENCE is a manipulative little bitch just the same. In fact, this isn't even about astrology or science; it's about people being manipulative little cunts. If they had their way, their kids would be blue-eyed and with excellent mathematical skills, an affinity for music (esp. piano) and six feet tall. One day, we'll definitely be able to manipulate (i.e. more than we can now) unborn children, and it'll be done via science, not astrology. Demonizing either astrology (or New Age shit in general) and/or Science is utterly stupid; we ourselves are the demons, and they have downsides because they are an extension of our minds and spirits.