Dark Nights Metal # 4 Press
Rock on, Batman: Jamming with Scott Synder on ‘Dark Nights: Metal,’ Grant Morrison and Detective Chimp
Ever since writer Scott Snyder began his Batman run in 2011 to help kick off DC’s New 52 publishing initiative (following a brief, yet well-received run on Detective Comics), he’s been one of the most consistently popular, not to mention smart and entertaining, writers in contemporary comics.
A great deal of this success can also be attributed to artist Greg Capullo, with whom Snyder collaborated with throughout the bulk of their Batman run until its conclusion in 2016. His dynamic, inventive penciling style was a perfect match for Snyder’s talent for telling dramatically compelling and thematically resonant stories that still find room to be fun and thrilling.
Snyder continued to explore the Batman mythos, albeit minus Capullo, with the recently concluded All-Star Batman. But in August, they got the band back together (replete with inker Jonathan Glapion and colorist FCO Plascencia from the start of their Batman run) for Dark Nights: Metal, a grandiose crossover event that follows just about everyone from the Justice League, Dream, and even Detective Chimp as they confront the horrors of the Dark Multiverse, including a team of alternate-and horrifying-versions of Batman.
Ahead of this Wednesday’s Dark Knights: Metal # 4, AiPT! got together with Snyder to talk Metal, the writer’s relationship with Capullo, and the spirit of rock and roll.
AIPT!: Thanks so much for talking to me today. I’ve been a big fan of yours for a long time and I’m really loving Metal.
Scott Snyder: Thank you, we’re really having more fun on it than any superhero project (I’ve ever done).
AIPT!: That’s great to hear, because that sense of fun really does come through in the writing and the whole production of the comic. I think it’s safe to say that this is, as you’ve talked about before, probably the wildest, most bombastic thing you’ve done at DC so far. Going into the early planning stages of the story, what was the motivation for telling a story this over-the-top?
Snyder: Well, it really came from a couple of things. I mean, first they asked if I wanted to do some kind of an event. That’s before Greg [Capullo] left. And I had this story in my head… I knew I wanted to have Batman meet Carter Hall… following them throughout human history, and kind of having Carter Hall passing the torch after he disappeared. And what happened was I was reading [other] events over the year that I was working on All-Star [Batman], and All-Star was sort of a way of getting to do more bonkers and prismatic storytelling about Batman away from the mainstream… It got me thinking about the [stories] that I had loved as a kid… I realized that they were Kirby-esque, bonkers, and, you know epic. They had a lot of meaning, and they were good, but they were all kinds of ludicrous… We decided that we wanted to do a big rock concert, a sort of party where we’re inviting everybody to sort of celebrate the ludicrous… Justice League Voltron, baby Darkseid, all that kind of stuff, while still making it kind of personal.
AIPT!: That’s actually something I wanted to talk to you about. I want to get into the craziness and the kirbyness of it all too. But something that I’ve always found in your work, and something that you’ve talked about in panels and interviews, is how personal a lot of your work is, including your Batman work. I guess what I’m asking is, with a story like this that is so big, to what degree were you still able to keep it grounded in ideas that we experience in the real world and in our personal lives?
Snyder: Well first of all, we’re really heartwarmed by the response, so we just want to thank everybody over at the site, and all the readers… You know, it is quite personal. I wanted the experience to be like the crazy [stories] that I love. You know, Zorro, Dr. Fate… all great stuff. But ultimately, the story is about… how to try something new and fail… how you failed a version of yourself. All the ways that things can go wrong. All the ways you’re likely going to fail… how you seem to have no way out… you feel like you’re being swept away… those failed versions of yourself, that’s what the Dark Knights are for Bruce… it’s a thing I’m honestly proud of.
AIPT!: There’s a lot to be proud of, I think, to be able to tell a story that is at once very exciting, but also speaks to those things you’re talking about, how stories matter, how stories affect us. That’s why I wanted to bring up your upcoming collaboration with Grant Morrison [Dark Nights: The Wild Hunt], because that sort of metatextual nature is something that he’s explored a little bit in his work as well.
Snyder: On the surface, it looks like the craziest thing possible, right? I mean, Detective Chimp, sort of at his origin. So, Detective Chimp at his circus days, unable to learn certain tricks, and then escaping… the reason I love him and the reason Grant loves him so much is, at the end of the day, for me, he’s about the feeling that we all have, where he realizes he’s this sort of frustrated creature that can’t learn what he wants to learn. He is granted this infinite wisdom and infinite life, through the fountain of youth, and at the end of the day, he still feels like he’s no better than an ape in a cage, who can learn only a fraction of what he hopes to. So as silly as he is, and as ridiculous as he is, he’s actually a kind of poignant character, for us both, for me and Grant both. We kind of bonded over him, so one of the things that was fun was doing this issue that feels so insane. I mean, that’s the first few pages of Metal. You have Detective Chimp playing a keyboard, the power of Red Tornado and the Metal Men are almost pipe organs… [rocketing] across the Alterverse trying to get help. It is totally out-of control crazy. But that said, it’s a really personal story. I don’t know, for me it was very resonant just seeing how much Grant cares about so many of the pieces that he once created and also developed for DC. Not just that they’re fun and funny… and so smart, but because they meant things to him… it was a real pleasure. One of the big thrills this year was getting to work with him, getting to talk more with Neil Gaiman, and a couple of other people too coming up… I’m really, really thrilled. It’s been an incredible experience to work with some of my idols, getting to do what I do already but… better people than you hoped, they’re good people and collaborators.
AIPT!: That’s great, because I know Dream of the Endless is in Metal, that big surprising last page of the first issue. I didn’t realize that you [and Neil Gaiman] had actually spoken, and you hinted that there were other creators who you communicated with, so we might see some of their influence coming up. I know there’s only so much you can say or tease about what’s coming next, but could you maybe give us a little insight into what sort of ramifications on both the DC universe, and maybe your DC work, in particular?
Snyder: Oh yeah… there will be consequences. They have to have some kind of impact. For us, we wanted it to be additive and celebratory, so we’re not going to off Batman… beyond that, there are big effects to both things that I had planned post-Metal, and we’ll announce what I’ve been thinking about doing afterwards, but there are also a bunch of big story engines that are going into a bunch of books: Aquaman, Flash, Wonder Woman. So there’s a lot of stuff that’s rolling out of Metal that’s adding to the story. We wanted it to be stuff that was organic to the creators, that doesn’t feel intrusive. With Batman too… so there’s a lot of things that are coming out of Metal that I think people will be excited about… I hope [it] feels additive and celebratory and inclusive, and not sort of, you know… a cash grab or anything like that. We’re trying to be very very sensitive about all of that stuff, and make sure that it’s all being done in the right spirit.
AIPT!: Well, I really appreciate that, and I know a whole lot of readers will too. I know we’re starting to run out of time, but I did want to ask before you go… I was actually just listening to the Spotify playlist that you created for Metal, and was hoping you could talk about how metal music, or maybe just music, in general, influenced this story.
Snyder: Well, obviously, it has that story element, Nth metal and all that stuff I was fascinated with, but it’s also about Greg, and about our friendship, and about how he made me a lot more confident as a creator, and I hope I have for him, so I think it’s a little bit of that for him as well. As also, the thing that we sort of bonded over was a sensibility about wanting to put stories first, character first, and he always described that as being rock and roll. He’s like, “come on, man, you gotta rock out. You gotta be rock and roll, we’re a band, man. We gotta go out there and play our hearts out.” And so it just felt right! All of Metal, it sort of plays into that idea of getting out there and just rocking out. He uses that term too… he’s like, “that’s so metal.” It’s cool… it’s daring, it’s bold, you need to go out there and give everything you’ve got, leave nothing on stage. Pyro, theatrical, all of it is in the spirit of what we’re trying to do. There was a little bit of a fight to call it that with DC, but I’m so glad that they finally caved and let us do it. And now they’re all wearing rock wigs, playing guitar… we’re all in a band together now.
Source: http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/2017/12/18/rock-on-batman-jamming-with-scott-synder-on-dark-nights-metal-grant-morrison-and-detective-chimp/
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Scott Snyder Is Having a Blast Jumping the Shark in Dark Nights: Metal
This week represents our first step past the halfway point on Dark Nights: Metal, as chapter # 4 of the six-issue event hits shelves. And, as creators Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo have promised since the beginning, things are only getting more and more explosively crazy as we go. From ’90s punk-inspired cosmic parasites to the genuinely heartfelt evolution of iconic superheroes, Metal is about to kick into overdrive.
CBR sat down with Snyder this week to get some insight into Metal # 4.
CBR: Okay, so - I don’t want to beat around the bush at all. We have to talk about Starro, who gets a pretty big moment in this issue, but with a very unique take on him as a character. Where did that come from?
Scott Snyder: [Laughs] Starro is my favorite thing. I was so worried. I was originally going to put him on roller skates but then I was like, no, no, we can’t go that far - he’s already talking like some sort of ’90s punk, you know what I mean?
But, no! No, the issue was really so intense to write because it has so much of the real core emotional stuff of the whole thing, both in what Kendra is deeply wrestling with and what Bruce is facing. We wanted to have something there to kind of balance that out. So, Starro, calling people “punks.” [Laughs]
I noticed that during that Starro moment there was an editor’s note where your editor was almost asking you and Greg if the things you were referencing actually happened -
Yeah! Our editor, Rebecca Taylor actually called me and was like, “Did this ever happen?” And I was like, “Uhhh… why don’t we just pretend it did!” She insisted she’d have to put some kind of editorial note, so I was like, “Why don’t you just say, ‘Roll with it’?” But of course, she responded with, “I can’t just say ‘roll with it.'” [Laughs] So, what’s there is what we came up with, which I actually like even better.
She’s the best. Tay’s the best. She’s been like my partner-in-crime for quite a few years. Really, we should throw some credit to her because she’s been a guiding light on a lot of this stuff.
Oh, absolutely. I think the editorial notes even on the issues prior to this one and the tie-ins have been really fantastic.
I hope it comes across how much fun everyone is having on this, because we really just got to a point where we decided we had to just do it for ourselves. Once we got to Baby Darkseid - or, honestly, once we got to the Justice League Voltron, which is so early in the series, I was like, “Alright, we’re just doing it. We’re just jumping these sharks, I don’t care.” It’s just really been that - jumping over sharks. And if everybody wants to jump with me and like it, great. If they don’t, that’s cool - I’ll just keep jumping over them.
On a more serious note, we get a really touching and emotional moment in this issue with Bruce - there’s a lot going on here about a Batman who is very open with his struggle to see himself as a hopeful hero. Is that something you built into Metal specifically, or is this a natural outcropping of your work with the character over the years?
It was absolutely what I came to believe about him over time, while we were writing him. When I started with “Court of Owls,” he was very much a conduit for me to be brave in the face of things that I was feeling. That arc was largely about going home and suddenly seeing that nobody you know is there anymore, that everything has changed, you’ve gotten older. That story really hooks into a lot of that feeling. As I got older and worked on him more, over the following, like, six years, a lot changed. We had a second kid - I had developed “Court of Owls” when my first son was very young, and now he’s ten, so, you know…
The idea, really, was that Bruce came to be less about what he means to me, and more about what he means to my kids, and what I want him to sort of make them brave in the face of. That development, when he became less a figure of intimidation or just a badass fun detective and more somebody who is inspiring and instead of just scaring bad people into the shadows, actually inspires good people to go out into the light in the face of these monstrous challenges. Things that I think my kids are afraid of these days. That became really important for me.
So this moment was great for me to write, y’know, just for myself. Just as a sort of crystallization of how I see Bruce. It’s how I hope he sees himself one day, because he never slows down. This event is largely about Bruce being forced to slow down and to look at all the ways he might fail - all the terrible versions of him that are possible. That’s something that Clark needs to be there to remind him of, really, because Clark is always looking at all the ways he can fail. Clark is a character who is very sensitive to the ways in which things can go wrong, where Bruce is just strategic.
That’s why I love having them together. Wonder Woman, I love too, just because she cuts through all their bullshit. [Laughs] She’s sensitive, but she’s also just like the tough sister to them. She’s always saying, “We gotta move, save the talk for later.”
When we get to issue six, which is full of just about every crazy moment I can muster - Batman riding Joker dragons, everything. Literally like a Vegas buffet of crazy, a rock show finale. Diana has some of those moments there, which are some of my favorites in the series.
There are a lot of irons in the fire in this particular issue with all the different teams on all the different missions. Can you tease a bit of what we should expect - or maybe even the things we should already be paying attention to - with the different threads that are wrapping around each other here?
Oh man, well, the stuff with Aquaman and Deathstroke is going to continue both here and in Aquaman itself. The stuff with Flash and Cyborg is going to be headed for the thing I’m co-writing with Grant Morrison - The Wild Hunt - that’s going to have big, big consequences after everything too. So Metal will be self contained, but there are a lot of story engines here that we’re trying to rev up. You can read Metal as an isolated thing and I promise we’re not going to leave you hanging, but at the same time - everything in it, we wanted to lead to more mystery and more story.
Source: https://www.cbr.com/dark-nights-metal-scott-snyder-interview/
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Scott Snyder: METAL # 4 Delves Into the Creation of the DC Multiverse
Newsarama: Scott, the last issue of Dark Nights Metal was a couple months ago, with Batman Lost in between. But both issues ended with Superman and Batman both trapped in the Dark Multiverse. Is that where we pick things up? And what else will we see in this issue?
Scott Snyder: Yeah, this is the issue where everything kind of hits the fan, where Batman and Superman have travel deeper into the Dark Multiverse, if they ever escape that tower, and find help somehow.
Nrama: Will we see heroes begin to turn the tide at all, fighting back against the terror that sort of entered the universe in the last few issues?
Snyder: Yeah, the first issues were setting everything up and establishing the tone and pace of it, and now this is where we really get the crazy action, adventure and drama in all corners of the DCU.
So we've got Batman and Superman dealing with the Dark Multiverse, and back in the Multiverse proper, our heroes are setting off on these really desperate adventures to find the last repositories of Nth Metal so they can have something to fight back the Dark Knights and Barbatos himself.
Nrama: In Batman Lost, we learned a little more about the Dark Multiverse, but it was sort of through Batman's eyes - and through his fears, really. You told me a few months ago that issue # 4 had some big "cosmology" stuff. Is that cosmology related to the nature of the Dark Multiverse?
Snyder: Yes. Issue # 4 really delves into the creation of the Dark Multiverse. If Batman Lost is kind of the heart emotionally of what Batman is going through in the story, Metal # 4 really is the heart of the whole event in terms of what it's about. Batman Lost was Batman's conflict, the arguments Barbatos is making against him and why he's a failure. But Metal # 4 is where we get a sense of the creation myth behind the Dark Multiverse - and the Multiverse itself.
Nrama: So this kind of started as a Batman story, but it's getting so big that the creation myth of the DCU plays a part?
Snyder: Yeah, we're really going big. This issue is also the moment where Dream of the Endless - Daniel - plays his big role. So it's the issue I'm so thrilled for people to see. It's the big sort of centerpiece of the event so far.
Source: https://www.newsarama.com/37876-dark-nights-metal-4-scott-snyder-interview.html
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[I was watching Wednesday's episode of Happy! this week and during commercials, SYFY did their little news break that they do and suddenly Scott Snyder's face was on my TV, promoting a clip from the following interview. XD]
Scott Snyder breaks down Metal # 4 and offers big clues for beyond
The fourth issue of DC's Dark Nights: Metal hits stands on Wednesday, and we're taking another long-view look back at what's happened, what's going down now, and what are some of the more important panels that have significance in future issues. We spoke with the brainchild of Metal, Scott Snyder, on camera and off, to break down Metal's mystery, and what's still left to come. First we're going to take a look at some important pages and panels from Dark Days Forge, Metal # 1-3, and then we'll discuss the events of Metal # 4.
Beware, as there are LOTS of SPOILERS about the first four issues and Dark Nights one-shots ahead.
1. The Forge, Page 7
Snyder's notes: BATMAN saves a scientist from a remote undersea base, at which point AQUAMAN appears and questions Bruce about what exactly he was studying down there in the depths. In Metal issue 4, we'll learn that the secrets of Nth Metal have more to do with Atlantis' history -- and ARTHUR'S future -- than he ever knew...
SYFY WIRE: Readers probably glanced over this scene as benign at first, but there was something big here, the potential Nth Metal that's buried under Atlantis, and what Batman is hiding from Arthur.
Scott Snyder: Before we began Metal, we had this huge summit and made this crazy design on the board where we blocked out all of the places that Nth Metal would be hidden: Why they were hidden there? What the secret history was as to how they got there? Has it been used by any characters who found these repositories of this magical substance? We really wanted make sure it wasn't just moving the pieces around the chess board in some superficial way, but instead have this event be about how frightening it can be to explore the mysteries of both your own psychology, but also the world itself. So we wanted a mystery and a story that was potent for each character who went after these repositories of Nth Metal, to find something else about their own mythology, that surprises them and scares them.
We find out that Batman has a secret room in the fortress of solitude, was this something you felt he would naturally do, or was this a reactionary precaution he did as a result of his fears?
SS: He was looking into this mystery of whether there was a real place called the Dark Multiverse, whether any of it pointed to him, or what it was that Carter Hall discovered. Was it all a trap? Was it just something that was set up by his villains to lure him and his friends in, so it gets sprung on him that it's something he needs to talk to them about? We didn't want to do a story where he keeps everything to himself and is really detrimental. Here he was just figuring out if there was any real substance, when it all explodes on him.
2. Metal # 2, Page 2
Snyder's Notes: At the start of METAL # 2, Carter Hall gives a brief history of the start of the DC Multiverse. Well in METAL 4, we learn that the tale he told is only half the story, and that the creation myth of the entire DCU is something much more shocking...
3. Metal # 2, Page 16
Snyder's Notes: Dream leads Batman to what seems like the ancient tomb of Carter Hall; Dream tells Batman he can guide him no further. When Batman pleads with him to stay, Dream tells him -- call to me in the place of the BLACK SUN. Well, all we can say is get ready to see what Dream meant very soon...
4. Metal # 2, Page 14
Snyder's Notes: KENDRA SAUNDERS ventures into a strange headquarters, where a group of Immortals charge her with completing a plan to blow up the Dark Multiverse. In the coming issue of Metal, Kendra must make a terrible choice whether or not to fire the Anti-Monitor's cosmic brain through the Rock of Eternity (yes I just wrote that) and destroy everything that lies below the Multiverse, including Batman, Superman, and Carter Hall himself. (Also, look for some of those Immortals to play a big role in this issue...)
5. Metal # 3, Pages 13-20 : The Oblivion Bar
There's a lot being thrown at the reader in these pages, as the Oblivion Bar is a unique spot in the DC Universe.
SS: The Oblivion Bar is one of those places that haven't been used in awhile, it's a magical place, this intersection of different forces and energy, and we wanted to show you that no place was safe from the Dark Nights, and no character is safe from them at all. Instead, wherever you think you can hide, find refuge, that's where they'll find you. This gathers up every character and every aspect of the DCU and puts it in play.
What about the Nightmaster, is he someone we should be paying more attention to?
SS: Yeah, a lot of the stuff that happens in the Oblivion Bar and with the magical characters is going to wind up playing out in a series that I can't reveal what it is yet, but we're going to roll a bunch of series out of Metal, so once it is over, come Spring 2018, DC has a lot of great plans for some of the characters that have been a big part of the Metal, but may not have their own book. But there are hints at the story elements that are in there, new discoveries about the multiverse and certain characters' mythos. At the end of Metal, you're going to see a lot of story engines fired up. To spin forward, so yeah, there are plans for Nightmaster, Detective Chimp, and a bunch of characters that you see in that issue.
6. The Batman Who Laughs, Pages 17-18
Snyder's Notes: The Batman Who Laughs is talking to a mysterious, bandaged figure... prepare to learn more about who that might be in the coming pages... And prepare to be shocked.
Is this person who is bandaged up a major player in Metal, or someone who's going to factor into the stories that come after?
SS: It's a big reveal. It is a character that is in current continuity that will definitely be a fun surprise. The Batman Who Laughs has been the breakout, with people already doing cosplay and artists who have been inspired to draw him or make custom toys. It's a huge thrill. We definitely have plans for the Dark Nights, but I don't want to spoil which ones are going to die or go back to the Dark Multiverse, but you'll see a lot of stories roll out.
*WARNING* From here on, we break down major plot points in Metal # 4 so don't read any further until you've read the issue.
Metal # 4 is the big Dream issue we've been waiting for, where Batman, Superman, and Dream have a lengthy scene.
SS: Greg (Capullo) and I talked about it beforehand and one of the things we wanted to do with Metal was if we we're ever going to do an event, was to go as (Jack) Kirby as possible and play with it, explore, expand the deepest folklore and mythology of the DCU. Here what Dream explains is the origins of the Monitor, the Anti-Montior and the DC Universe itself, and how the Dark Multiverse plays into its creation -- so it was a ton of fun to develop new mythological figures like the World Forge, who you may see later, as well, and new storylines that are about the birth of these pair of DC universes (Multiverse and Dark Multiverse) all at once. We wanted something that merited Dream's involvement, we wanted to make sure it was big and deep enough, universe-shaking enough for him that he would come out the Dreaming to talk about consequences. So this is the scene we've been dying to do since the very beginning, to show what the story is about, and also how his role is key to it.
Starro makes his appearance on Thanagar; talk about their inclusion and the role they play in the bigger picture.
SS: We wanted to do an adventure that traveled to the most distant corners so you have characters traveling to the center of the Earth, characters traveling to the edge of the DC Universe, to the World Forge, Atlantis, through the Dark Multiverse, and the most hidden planets like Thanagar Prime, which is a story element that's going to be picked up after Metal, as well. We wanted to give you that sense of grand space opera, that Flash Gordon feel where there's this whole culture you don't know, and if you're trapped in the middle of nowhere with these crazy cosmic figures, and lean into that bonkers over-the-top space soap opera, but also make sure it was emotional. It was tons of fun to bring in a character like Starro, who's over-the-top, but at the same time have their dilemma be really emotional. It plays out in a big way in the next issue, too, which will have the return of another character that I think people will be really excited about.
You've managed to keep Barbatos behind the curtain, as you've had characters speak for him or about him, can you share more about your take?
SS: Some figures are cut from whole cloth and are brand new like the Dark Nights, the Dark Multiverse -- there are concepts that we wanted to make our own or make from scratch. One of the other joys was to take characters who haven't been around in a while, or at least in a prominent way, and doing our own versions of them. Barbatos is a figure that appeared in a story that I love called "Dark Night, Dark City" by Peter Milligan, who re-appeared in Grant Morrison's stuff in a different way. We wanted to take him from those stories and do our version of him, and raise him up in a different way.
At the end of Metal # 4, we see Kendra and Carter emerge out of the fire and reveal themselves as Hawkman and Hawkgirl.
SS: They've always been central to the DNA of the story and plot-wise it's been about Batman picking up on a mystery that the two of them have been a part of for generations. This is the part that their emotional conflict, their mythology, their mission, relationship with each other, their love comes to the front of the story. Everything becomes jeopardized and they become very prominent figures from here on out. What happens to them plays out in stories after Metal too. So it's great to move them to center stage and moving them forward.
Is there any other moment in Metal # 4 that we shouldn't overlook?
SS: There's a bunch! Some of the stuff that Dream mentions about the library burning plays out in a really big way, the stuff that characters are discovering on their missions, the whole mystery around why Atlantis has this strange machine at the core of the Earth that uses Nth Metal. Why is this strange weapon -- the Phoenix Cannon -- is on Thanagar, and what it's really being used for? There are elements in this one that set up everything that's coming to a head in issues # 5 and # 6, and on top of that, will generate stories after Metal. I love this issue, [laughs] I'm really excited to see what people think. Metal was exciting from the word go, but it was intensely intimidating to do something with these characters, this scope.
I adore that first issue, with Batman riding a dinosaur, Justice League Voltron, [laughs] and baby Darkseid, but in some ways I was always trying to justify doing it, and make sure that everyone felt like they were in on the fun, just trying to make it as inclusive, and as big as possible. Now that it's up and running and people have responded, we can just go even further and let loose. These issues, 4, 5, and 6 are easily my favorites of the whole thing.
Source: http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/scott-snyder-breaks-down-metal-4-and-offers-big-clues-for-beyond
Ever since writer Scott Snyder began his Batman run in 2011 to help kick off DC’s New 52 publishing initiative (following a brief, yet well-received run on Detective Comics), he’s been one of the most consistently popular, not to mention smart and entertaining, writers in contemporary comics.
A great deal of this success can also be attributed to artist Greg Capullo, with whom Snyder collaborated with throughout the bulk of their Batman run until its conclusion in 2016. His dynamic, inventive penciling style was a perfect match for Snyder’s talent for telling dramatically compelling and thematically resonant stories that still find room to be fun and thrilling.
Snyder continued to explore the Batman mythos, albeit minus Capullo, with the recently concluded All-Star Batman. But in August, they got the band back together (replete with inker Jonathan Glapion and colorist FCO Plascencia from the start of their Batman run) for Dark Nights: Metal, a grandiose crossover event that follows just about everyone from the Justice League, Dream, and even Detective Chimp as they confront the horrors of the Dark Multiverse, including a team of alternate-and horrifying-versions of Batman.
Ahead of this Wednesday’s Dark Knights: Metal # 4, AiPT! got together with Snyder to talk Metal, the writer’s relationship with Capullo, and the spirit of rock and roll.
AIPT!: Thanks so much for talking to me today. I’ve been a big fan of yours for a long time and I’m really loving Metal.
Scott Snyder: Thank you, we’re really having more fun on it than any superhero project (I’ve ever done).
AIPT!: That’s great to hear, because that sense of fun really does come through in the writing and the whole production of the comic. I think it’s safe to say that this is, as you’ve talked about before, probably the wildest, most bombastic thing you’ve done at DC so far. Going into the early planning stages of the story, what was the motivation for telling a story this over-the-top?
Snyder: Well, it really came from a couple of things. I mean, first they asked if I wanted to do some kind of an event. That’s before Greg [Capullo] left. And I had this story in my head… I knew I wanted to have Batman meet Carter Hall… following them throughout human history, and kind of having Carter Hall passing the torch after he disappeared. And what happened was I was reading [other] events over the year that I was working on All-Star [Batman], and All-Star was sort of a way of getting to do more bonkers and prismatic storytelling about Batman away from the mainstream… It got me thinking about the [stories] that I had loved as a kid… I realized that they were Kirby-esque, bonkers, and, you know epic. They had a lot of meaning, and they were good, but they were all kinds of ludicrous… We decided that we wanted to do a big rock concert, a sort of party where we’re inviting everybody to sort of celebrate the ludicrous… Justice League Voltron, baby Darkseid, all that kind of stuff, while still making it kind of personal.
AIPT!: That’s actually something I wanted to talk to you about. I want to get into the craziness and the kirbyness of it all too. But something that I’ve always found in your work, and something that you’ve talked about in panels and interviews, is how personal a lot of your work is, including your Batman work. I guess what I’m asking is, with a story like this that is so big, to what degree were you still able to keep it grounded in ideas that we experience in the real world and in our personal lives?
Snyder: Well first of all, we’re really heartwarmed by the response, so we just want to thank everybody over at the site, and all the readers… You know, it is quite personal. I wanted the experience to be like the crazy [stories] that I love. You know, Zorro, Dr. Fate… all great stuff. But ultimately, the story is about… how to try something new and fail… how you failed a version of yourself. All the ways that things can go wrong. All the ways you’re likely going to fail… how you seem to have no way out… you feel like you’re being swept away… those failed versions of yourself, that’s what the Dark Knights are for Bruce… it’s a thing I’m honestly proud of.
AIPT!: There’s a lot to be proud of, I think, to be able to tell a story that is at once very exciting, but also speaks to those things you’re talking about, how stories matter, how stories affect us. That’s why I wanted to bring up your upcoming collaboration with Grant Morrison [Dark Nights: The Wild Hunt], because that sort of metatextual nature is something that he’s explored a little bit in his work as well.
Snyder: On the surface, it looks like the craziest thing possible, right? I mean, Detective Chimp, sort of at his origin. So, Detective Chimp at his circus days, unable to learn certain tricks, and then escaping… the reason I love him and the reason Grant loves him so much is, at the end of the day, for me, he’s about the feeling that we all have, where he realizes he’s this sort of frustrated creature that can’t learn what he wants to learn. He is granted this infinite wisdom and infinite life, through the fountain of youth, and at the end of the day, he still feels like he’s no better than an ape in a cage, who can learn only a fraction of what he hopes to. So as silly as he is, and as ridiculous as he is, he’s actually a kind of poignant character, for us both, for me and Grant both. We kind of bonded over him, so one of the things that was fun was doing this issue that feels so insane. I mean, that’s the first few pages of Metal. You have Detective Chimp playing a keyboard, the power of Red Tornado and the Metal Men are almost pipe organs… [rocketing] across the Alterverse trying to get help. It is totally out-of control crazy. But that said, it’s a really personal story. I don’t know, for me it was very resonant just seeing how much Grant cares about so many of the pieces that he once created and also developed for DC. Not just that they’re fun and funny… and so smart, but because they meant things to him… it was a real pleasure. One of the big thrills this year was getting to work with him, getting to talk more with Neil Gaiman, and a couple of other people too coming up… I’m really, really thrilled. It’s been an incredible experience to work with some of my idols, getting to do what I do already but… better people than you hoped, they’re good people and collaborators.
AIPT!: That’s great, because I know Dream of the Endless is in Metal, that big surprising last page of the first issue. I didn’t realize that you [and Neil Gaiman] had actually spoken, and you hinted that there were other creators who you communicated with, so we might see some of their influence coming up. I know there’s only so much you can say or tease about what’s coming next, but could you maybe give us a little insight into what sort of ramifications on both the DC universe, and maybe your DC work, in particular?
Snyder: Oh yeah… there will be consequences. They have to have some kind of impact. For us, we wanted it to be additive and celebratory, so we’re not going to off Batman… beyond that, there are big effects to both things that I had planned post-Metal, and we’ll announce what I’ve been thinking about doing afterwards, but there are also a bunch of big story engines that are going into a bunch of books: Aquaman, Flash, Wonder Woman. So there’s a lot of stuff that’s rolling out of Metal that’s adding to the story. We wanted it to be stuff that was organic to the creators, that doesn’t feel intrusive. With Batman too… so there’s a lot of things that are coming out of Metal that I think people will be excited about… I hope [it] feels additive and celebratory and inclusive, and not sort of, you know… a cash grab or anything like that. We’re trying to be very very sensitive about all of that stuff, and make sure that it’s all being done in the right spirit.
AIPT!: Well, I really appreciate that, and I know a whole lot of readers will too. I know we’re starting to run out of time, but I did want to ask before you go… I was actually just listening to the Spotify playlist that you created for Metal, and was hoping you could talk about how metal music, or maybe just music, in general, influenced this story.
Snyder: Well, obviously, it has that story element, Nth metal and all that stuff I was fascinated with, but it’s also about Greg, and about our friendship, and about how he made me a lot more confident as a creator, and I hope I have for him, so I think it’s a little bit of that for him as well. As also, the thing that we sort of bonded over was a sensibility about wanting to put stories first, character first, and he always described that as being rock and roll. He’s like, “come on, man, you gotta rock out. You gotta be rock and roll, we’re a band, man. We gotta go out there and play our hearts out.” And so it just felt right! All of Metal, it sort of plays into that idea of getting out there and just rocking out. He uses that term too… he’s like, “that’s so metal.” It’s cool… it’s daring, it’s bold, you need to go out there and give everything you’ve got, leave nothing on stage. Pyro, theatrical, all of it is in the spirit of what we’re trying to do. There was a little bit of a fight to call it that with DC, but I’m so glad that they finally caved and let us do it. And now they’re all wearing rock wigs, playing guitar… we’re all in a band together now.
Source: http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/2017/12/18/rock-on-batman-jamming-with-scott-synder-on-dark-nights-metal-grant-morrison-and-detective-chimp/
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Scott Snyder Is Having a Blast Jumping the Shark in Dark Nights: Metal
This week represents our first step past the halfway point on Dark Nights: Metal, as chapter # 4 of the six-issue event hits shelves. And, as creators Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo have promised since the beginning, things are only getting more and more explosively crazy as we go. From ’90s punk-inspired cosmic parasites to the genuinely heartfelt evolution of iconic superheroes, Metal is about to kick into overdrive.
CBR sat down with Snyder this week to get some insight into Metal # 4.
CBR: Okay, so - I don’t want to beat around the bush at all. We have to talk about Starro, who gets a pretty big moment in this issue, but with a very unique take on him as a character. Where did that come from?
Scott Snyder: [Laughs] Starro is my favorite thing. I was so worried. I was originally going to put him on roller skates but then I was like, no, no, we can’t go that far - he’s already talking like some sort of ’90s punk, you know what I mean?
But, no! No, the issue was really so intense to write because it has so much of the real core emotional stuff of the whole thing, both in what Kendra is deeply wrestling with and what Bruce is facing. We wanted to have something there to kind of balance that out. So, Starro, calling people “punks.” [Laughs]
I noticed that during that Starro moment there was an editor’s note where your editor was almost asking you and Greg if the things you were referencing actually happened -
Yeah! Our editor, Rebecca Taylor actually called me and was like, “Did this ever happen?” And I was like, “Uhhh… why don’t we just pretend it did!” She insisted she’d have to put some kind of editorial note, so I was like, “Why don’t you just say, ‘Roll with it’?” But of course, she responded with, “I can’t just say ‘roll with it.'” [Laughs] So, what’s there is what we came up with, which I actually like even better.
She’s the best. Tay’s the best. She’s been like my partner-in-crime for quite a few years. Really, we should throw some credit to her because she’s been a guiding light on a lot of this stuff.
Oh, absolutely. I think the editorial notes even on the issues prior to this one and the tie-ins have been really fantastic.
I hope it comes across how much fun everyone is having on this, because we really just got to a point where we decided we had to just do it for ourselves. Once we got to Baby Darkseid - or, honestly, once we got to the Justice League Voltron, which is so early in the series, I was like, “Alright, we’re just doing it. We’re just jumping these sharks, I don’t care.” It’s just really been that - jumping over sharks. And if everybody wants to jump with me and like it, great. If they don’t, that’s cool - I’ll just keep jumping over them.
On a more serious note, we get a really touching and emotional moment in this issue with Bruce - there’s a lot going on here about a Batman who is very open with his struggle to see himself as a hopeful hero. Is that something you built into Metal specifically, or is this a natural outcropping of your work with the character over the years?
It was absolutely what I came to believe about him over time, while we were writing him. When I started with “Court of Owls,” he was very much a conduit for me to be brave in the face of things that I was feeling. That arc was largely about going home and suddenly seeing that nobody you know is there anymore, that everything has changed, you’ve gotten older. That story really hooks into a lot of that feeling. As I got older and worked on him more, over the following, like, six years, a lot changed. We had a second kid - I had developed “Court of Owls” when my first son was very young, and now he’s ten, so, you know…
The idea, really, was that Bruce came to be less about what he means to me, and more about what he means to my kids, and what I want him to sort of make them brave in the face of. That development, when he became less a figure of intimidation or just a badass fun detective and more somebody who is inspiring and instead of just scaring bad people into the shadows, actually inspires good people to go out into the light in the face of these monstrous challenges. Things that I think my kids are afraid of these days. That became really important for me.
So this moment was great for me to write, y’know, just for myself. Just as a sort of crystallization of how I see Bruce. It’s how I hope he sees himself one day, because he never slows down. This event is largely about Bruce being forced to slow down and to look at all the ways he might fail - all the terrible versions of him that are possible. That’s something that Clark needs to be there to remind him of, really, because Clark is always looking at all the ways he can fail. Clark is a character who is very sensitive to the ways in which things can go wrong, where Bruce is just strategic.
That’s why I love having them together. Wonder Woman, I love too, just because she cuts through all their bullshit. [Laughs] She’s sensitive, but she’s also just like the tough sister to them. She’s always saying, “We gotta move, save the talk for later.”
When we get to issue six, which is full of just about every crazy moment I can muster - Batman riding Joker dragons, everything. Literally like a Vegas buffet of crazy, a rock show finale. Diana has some of those moments there, which are some of my favorites in the series.
There are a lot of irons in the fire in this particular issue with all the different teams on all the different missions. Can you tease a bit of what we should expect - or maybe even the things we should already be paying attention to - with the different threads that are wrapping around each other here?
Oh man, well, the stuff with Aquaman and Deathstroke is going to continue both here and in Aquaman itself. The stuff with Flash and Cyborg is going to be headed for the thing I’m co-writing with Grant Morrison - The Wild Hunt - that’s going to have big, big consequences after everything too. So Metal will be self contained, but there are a lot of story engines here that we’re trying to rev up. You can read Metal as an isolated thing and I promise we’re not going to leave you hanging, but at the same time - everything in it, we wanted to lead to more mystery and more story.
Source: https://www.cbr.com/dark-nights-metal-scott-snyder-interview/
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Scott Snyder: METAL # 4 Delves Into the Creation of the DC Multiverse
Newsarama: Scott, the last issue of Dark Nights Metal was a couple months ago, with Batman Lost in between. But both issues ended with Superman and Batman both trapped in the Dark Multiverse. Is that where we pick things up? And what else will we see in this issue?
Scott Snyder: Yeah, this is the issue where everything kind of hits the fan, where Batman and Superman have travel deeper into the Dark Multiverse, if they ever escape that tower, and find help somehow.
Nrama: Will we see heroes begin to turn the tide at all, fighting back against the terror that sort of entered the universe in the last few issues?
Snyder: Yeah, the first issues were setting everything up and establishing the tone and pace of it, and now this is where we really get the crazy action, adventure and drama in all corners of the DCU.
So we've got Batman and Superman dealing with the Dark Multiverse, and back in the Multiverse proper, our heroes are setting off on these really desperate adventures to find the last repositories of Nth Metal so they can have something to fight back the Dark Knights and Barbatos himself.
Nrama: In Batman Lost, we learned a little more about the Dark Multiverse, but it was sort of through Batman's eyes - and through his fears, really. You told me a few months ago that issue # 4 had some big "cosmology" stuff. Is that cosmology related to the nature of the Dark Multiverse?
Snyder: Yes. Issue # 4 really delves into the creation of the Dark Multiverse. If Batman Lost is kind of the heart emotionally of what Batman is going through in the story, Metal # 4 really is the heart of the whole event in terms of what it's about. Batman Lost was Batman's conflict, the arguments Barbatos is making against him and why he's a failure. But Metal # 4 is where we get a sense of the creation myth behind the Dark Multiverse - and the Multiverse itself.
Nrama: So this kind of started as a Batman story, but it's getting so big that the creation myth of the DCU plays a part?
Snyder: Yeah, we're really going big. This issue is also the moment where Dream of the Endless - Daniel - plays his big role. So it's the issue I'm so thrilled for people to see. It's the big sort of centerpiece of the event so far.
Source: https://www.newsarama.com/37876-dark-nights-metal-4-scott-snyder-interview.html
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[I was watching Wednesday's episode of Happy! this week and during commercials, SYFY did their little news break that they do and suddenly Scott Snyder's face was on my TV, promoting a clip from the following interview. XD]
Click to viewScott Snyder breaks down Metal # 4 and offers big clues for beyond
The fourth issue of DC's Dark Nights: Metal hits stands on Wednesday, and we're taking another long-view look back at what's happened, what's going down now, and what are some of the more important panels that have significance in future issues. We spoke with the brainchild of Metal, Scott Snyder, on camera and off, to break down Metal's mystery, and what's still left to come. First we're going to take a look at some important pages and panels from Dark Days Forge, Metal # 1-3, and then we'll discuss the events of Metal # 4.
Beware, as there are LOTS of SPOILERS about the first four issues and Dark Nights one-shots ahead.
1. The Forge, Page 7
Snyder's notes: BATMAN saves a scientist from a remote undersea base, at which point AQUAMAN appears and questions Bruce about what exactly he was studying down there in the depths. In Metal issue 4, we'll learn that the secrets of Nth Metal have more to do with Atlantis' history -- and ARTHUR'S future -- than he ever knew...
SYFY WIRE: Readers probably glanced over this scene as benign at first, but there was something big here, the potential Nth Metal that's buried under Atlantis, and what Batman is hiding from Arthur.
Scott Snyder: Before we began Metal, we had this huge summit and made this crazy design on the board where we blocked out all of the places that Nth Metal would be hidden: Why they were hidden there? What the secret history was as to how they got there? Has it been used by any characters who found these repositories of this magical substance? We really wanted make sure it wasn't just moving the pieces around the chess board in some superficial way, but instead have this event be about how frightening it can be to explore the mysteries of both your own psychology, but also the world itself. So we wanted a mystery and a story that was potent for each character who went after these repositories of Nth Metal, to find something else about their own mythology, that surprises them and scares them.
We find out that Batman has a secret room in the fortress of solitude, was this something you felt he would naturally do, or was this a reactionary precaution he did as a result of his fears?
SS: He was looking into this mystery of whether there was a real place called the Dark Multiverse, whether any of it pointed to him, or what it was that Carter Hall discovered. Was it all a trap? Was it just something that was set up by his villains to lure him and his friends in, so it gets sprung on him that it's something he needs to talk to them about? We didn't want to do a story where he keeps everything to himself and is really detrimental. Here he was just figuring out if there was any real substance, when it all explodes on him.
2. Metal # 2, Page 2
Snyder's Notes: At the start of METAL # 2, Carter Hall gives a brief history of the start of the DC Multiverse. Well in METAL 4, we learn that the tale he told is only half the story, and that the creation myth of the entire DCU is something much more shocking...
3. Metal # 2, Page 16
Snyder's Notes: Dream leads Batman to what seems like the ancient tomb of Carter Hall; Dream tells Batman he can guide him no further. When Batman pleads with him to stay, Dream tells him -- call to me in the place of the BLACK SUN. Well, all we can say is get ready to see what Dream meant very soon...
4. Metal # 2, Page 14
Snyder's Notes: KENDRA SAUNDERS ventures into a strange headquarters, where a group of Immortals charge her with completing a plan to blow up the Dark Multiverse. In the coming issue of Metal, Kendra must make a terrible choice whether or not to fire the Anti-Monitor's cosmic brain through the Rock of Eternity (yes I just wrote that) and destroy everything that lies below the Multiverse, including Batman, Superman, and Carter Hall himself. (Also, look for some of those Immortals to play a big role in this issue...)
5. Metal # 3, Pages 13-20 : The Oblivion Bar
There's a lot being thrown at the reader in these pages, as the Oblivion Bar is a unique spot in the DC Universe.
SS: The Oblivion Bar is one of those places that haven't been used in awhile, it's a magical place, this intersection of different forces and energy, and we wanted to show you that no place was safe from the Dark Nights, and no character is safe from them at all. Instead, wherever you think you can hide, find refuge, that's where they'll find you. This gathers up every character and every aspect of the DCU and puts it in play.
What about the Nightmaster, is he someone we should be paying more attention to?
SS: Yeah, a lot of the stuff that happens in the Oblivion Bar and with the magical characters is going to wind up playing out in a series that I can't reveal what it is yet, but we're going to roll a bunch of series out of Metal, so once it is over, come Spring 2018, DC has a lot of great plans for some of the characters that have been a big part of the Metal, but may not have their own book. But there are hints at the story elements that are in there, new discoveries about the multiverse and certain characters' mythos. At the end of Metal, you're going to see a lot of story engines fired up. To spin forward, so yeah, there are plans for Nightmaster, Detective Chimp, and a bunch of characters that you see in that issue.
6. The Batman Who Laughs, Pages 17-18
Snyder's Notes: The Batman Who Laughs is talking to a mysterious, bandaged figure... prepare to learn more about who that might be in the coming pages... And prepare to be shocked.
Is this person who is bandaged up a major player in Metal, or someone who's going to factor into the stories that come after?
SS: It's a big reveal. It is a character that is in current continuity that will definitely be a fun surprise. The Batman Who Laughs has been the breakout, with people already doing cosplay and artists who have been inspired to draw him or make custom toys. It's a huge thrill. We definitely have plans for the Dark Nights, but I don't want to spoil which ones are going to die or go back to the Dark Multiverse, but you'll see a lot of stories roll out.
*WARNING* From here on, we break down major plot points in Metal # 4 so don't read any further until you've read the issue.
Metal # 4 is the big Dream issue we've been waiting for, where Batman, Superman, and Dream have a lengthy scene.
SS: Greg (Capullo) and I talked about it beforehand and one of the things we wanted to do with Metal was if we we're ever going to do an event, was to go as (Jack) Kirby as possible and play with it, explore, expand the deepest folklore and mythology of the DCU. Here what Dream explains is the origins of the Monitor, the Anti-Montior and the DC Universe itself, and how the Dark Multiverse plays into its creation -- so it was a ton of fun to develop new mythological figures like the World Forge, who you may see later, as well, and new storylines that are about the birth of these pair of DC universes (Multiverse and Dark Multiverse) all at once. We wanted something that merited Dream's involvement, we wanted to make sure it was big and deep enough, universe-shaking enough for him that he would come out the Dreaming to talk about consequences. So this is the scene we've been dying to do since the very beginning, to show what the story is about, and also how his role is key to it.
Starro makes his appearance on Thanagar; talk about their inclusion and the role they play in the bigger picture.
SS: We wanted to do an adventure that traveled to the most distant corners so you have characters traveling to the center of the Earth, characters traveling to the edge of the DC Universe, to the World Forge, Atlantis, through the Dark Multiverse, and the most hidden planets like Thanagar Prime, which is a story element that's going to be picked up after Metal, as well. We wanted to give you that sense of grand space opera, that Flash Gordon feel where there's this whole culture you don't know, and if you're trapped in the middle of nowhere with these crazy cosmic figures, and lean into that bonkers over-the-top space soap opera, but also make sure it was emotional. It was tons of fun to bring in a character like Starro, who's over-the-top, but at the same time have their dilemma be really emotional. It plays out in a big way in the next issue, too, which will have the return of another character that I think people will be really excited about.
You've managed to keep Barbatos behind the curtain, as you've had characters speak for him or about him, can you share more about your take?
SS: Some figures are cut from whole cloth and are brand new like the Dark Nights, the Dark Multiverse -- there are concepts that we wanted to make our own or make from scratch. One of the other joys was to take characters who haven't been around in a while, or at least in a prominent way, and doing our own versions of them. Barbatos is a figure that appeared in a story that I love called "Dark Night, Dark City" by Peter Milligan, who re-appeared in Grant Morrison's stuff in a different way. We wanted to take him from those stories and do our version of him, and raise him up in a different way.
At the end of Metal # 4, we see Kendra and Carter emerge out of the fire and reveal themselves as Hawkman and Hawkgirl.
SS: They've always been central to the DNA of the story and plot-wise it's been about Batman picking up on a mystery that the two of them have been a part of for generations. This is the part that their emotional conflict, their mythology, their mission, relationship with each other, their love comes to the front of the story. Everything becomes jeopardized and they become very prominent figures from here on out. What happens to them plays out in stories after Metal too. So it's great to move them to center stage and moving them forward.
Is there any other moment in Metal # 4 that we shouldn't overlook?
SS: There's a bunch! Some of the stuff that Dream mentions about the library burning plays out in a really big way, the stuff that characters are discovering on their missions, the whole mystery around why Atlantis has this strange machine at the core of the Earth that uses Nth Metal. Why is this strange weapon -- the Phoenix Cannon -- is on Thanagar, and what it's really being used for? There are elements in this one that set up everything that's coming to a head in issues # 5 and # 6, and on top of that, will generate stories after Metal. I love this issue, [laughs] I'm really excited to see what people think. Metal was exciting from the word go, but it was intensely intimidating to do something with these characters, this scope.
I adore that first issue, with Batman riding a dinosaur, Justice League Voltron, [laughs] and baby Darkseid, but in some ways I was always trying to justify doing it, and make sure that everyone felt like they were in on the fun, just trying to make it as inclusive, and as big as possible. Now that it's up and running and people have responded, we can just go even further and let loose. These issues, 4, 5, and 6 are easily my favorites of the whole thing.
Source: http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/scott-snyder-breaks-down-metal-4-and-offers-big-clues-for-beyond