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[bloodedblossom]

My next assignment for WGS is interactive. I have to share several rape/sexual violence statistics with family and friends--both male and female--and find out if they have any ideas about them: the prevalence of these crimes; if they accept the statistics as accurate; and if, in any cases, the acts are justified and/or the victim is to blame

Comments

[iskender]

So long as sex is seen as a commodity and not a relationship, it's going to be hard to keep people from simply taking it from others--or pushing it on others, whichever expression is more apt. It's not enough for this to be wrong--and it is wrong, let me be clear, in so many ways objectionable and unfair. It has to be fought, sure, but it has to be replaced too. If this is not what sex is supposed to be, then I wonder what we can and need to say that sex is, what it is supposed to be.

And part of that is that, for me, sex is your own, that your body is your own, that nobody gets to tell you what to do with it so long as you harm no others. And that's something that's true of children, of women, of men. And it proceeds from that all manner of sexual libertinism and excess, yes, but also all independence and the notion that we are sexual actors, not objects, not to be either held or taken but to stand alone and decide for ourselves. The answer to rape is a cultural shift, I think, a revolution in sexual mores. It was not long enough ago that a man could not rape his wife, and I do not kid myself to say that this behavior is only expressed by madmen and deviants. It is too common to reject as the exception. It is the awful rule.

[coeur_de_lhiver]

I'm going to agree with most of what was said here. I knew about 80% of what was posted here in some form or fashion (slightly diff numbers from diff sources, etc.).

I think what it comes down to is not just viewing sex as a commodity but viewing women as a commodity. Centuries of "ownership of women" by men can not be erased simply because laws have changed in the U.S. When laws change, the consequences and actions change but attitudes are much slower to follow because attitudes are not punishable. But, those same attitudes are what lead to these acts of violence. And, in countries where there is no legal rejection of this type of behavior it is accepted as part of the culture rather than presented as deviant behavior.

I do think that attitudes about what sex is and who has rights to it need to change, but I also think that attitudes about what women are and who has ownership over them needs to change. I say this because if this were simply about sex, statistics should show that men are raped and assaulted just as much as women are, but they do not. (Granted strength differences might lead to less successful attempts.) They show time and time again that men are perpetrating violence against women and that this is the standard of acceptability.

Things that need to change/influence these statistics?

1. The nature/ownership of sex or sex as a commodity.
2. The value of a woman in a particular society.
3. The need for people to fit into such strict categories of male and female.
4. For women to be taught that just because rape and violence isn't their fault does not mean that their safety is not their responsibility.
5. For men and women alike to be taught that rape and violence are never okay, that they are not sexy or exciting, and no one is entitled to anyone else's body.
6. For society to be a safe place for women to come forward when acts of violence are perpetrated. I think this means that women have to be mentally and emotionally stronger an that people in general have to be more supportive rather than blaming the victims. (I very much think that, aside from f'd views of entitlement, one of the main reasons there is so much violence toward women is that there is little in the way of punishment for these acts.)

Specific answers to your questions:

I do accept the statistics as true or at least close to true... there is always some variance. And, while I never think the victim is to blame and I patently insist that when someone says no (male or female) that it means no... I do think that people are responsible for making smart decisions. If I got so trashed that I blacked out and then I got raped It's not my fault that someone raped me because they did not have permission and they should be prosecuted for their crimes because if it hadn't been me it would have been someone else... but it is my fault that I let myself be put in that situation and that I was the one raped instead of someone else. If I get hit once by my partner and I stay, he's wrong for hitting me every time he does it but I'm wrong for staying too. I am responsible for the decisions I make but that does not change in any way shape or form that the aggressor is also responsible for their actions and behavior and should be held accountable.

[iskender]

I want to be clear that women and children are indeed disproportionately targeted across societies, and I think this is because of not only their weaker position, but cultural conditioning of both victim and attacker. It's a big problem, and I don't claim to know it, but I do appreciate the special degradation that is inflicted on women, and on children.

That said, men are routinely raped, too. Not as much as women, but certainly more than is admitted. That they are, by and large, socially enfranchised and empowered does not negate my central argument that we have a generalized tendency to dehumanize and objectify others. I do not mean to equate men's and women's suffering of this, by any means. I merely mean to point out the general phenomenon which I feel exists and is supplemented by misogyny and other bigotries and power differentials.

[coeur_de_lhiver]

I basically hold the same stance. If I wasn't clear, I was agreeing with you. I simply wanted to give further reason's / explanations and all of this is in light of the question that was asked specifically about violence against women.

I actually have an ex who was an abuse victim (domestic violence)... female perpetrated on male domestic violence and I am extremely aware of the fact that men are victims also.

It was one of the main arguments I had in my WGS courses with teachers when they wanted to argue for stricter Domestic violence regulations but worded them in ways that were only protective of women. I thought this to be a bit ridiculous and biased and overlooked the fact that just because violence against women is the rule (when speaking about domestic violence and rape) that that doesn't mean there aren't exceptions that should also be covered by the law..

[iskender]

Cool. I knew you were agreeing with me, but I wanted to make sure that I wasn't one of those folks for whom universality makes them blind to individual differences. I want a general cultural revolution as far as sexual freedom and bodily integrity, but I see the battle against misogyny as an integral piece of that larger struggle. If you want human liberation, you must fight for many a smaller group first. And if you consider that the family is a seat of so many pathologies and hatreds, then it follows, for me anyway, that it is of the utmost importance for man and woman to stand on even ground. It is the first inequality many encounter in life, with the possible exception of that between adult and child.

[coeur_de_lhiver]

Very well put indeed.