Is this daughter of Jack's his first and only child? And then Steven his only grandchild? In all the years he has liven with his omnisexual self. It is a curious thought. If this man who lives as a point in time, who can not die, who does not sleep, got one woman pregnant, why, how? Or he had other offspring and got to live to see they and their offsprngs and their offsprings, and on die. How many others had he loved in that oh so long life of his, and lost? The way he cried when Ianto died, it did not seem like this was a routine event for him. Ianto seemed like more then a regular fuck for Jack. At best, he enjoyed Ianto. And was trying to protect himself from future hurt when he would loose Ianto. I was thinking that TW could not go on, but maybe it can. Jack would have to come back. I am not in the anti-Gwen camp. The mini-series was intense and wrenching. I cry easily. I am still upset about the series. Remember the movie - Sofie's Choice, could not stand that one either. Not big on children being the choice. Questions - why did the British gov't think destroying TW and the Hub was the answer? Did the 456 control earth's children through the child they had taken before? I think yes. Was the old crazy man the 'remnent' that the 456 was talking about? Again, I think yes. I know I am picking the series to death. Ahavia
Reply Part IblkandwhtcatJuly 26 2009, 20:21:32 UTC
Hi Ahavia. Don't cry - it's just a TV show! But I think it's proof of what a wonderful writer and artist RTD is, that he can create characters his viewers love and mourn as if they are real. That takes talent, and despite the over-the-top crazies, I think RTD is rightly pleased about the intense emotions COE aroused among viewers.
Is this daughter of Jack's his first and only child? And then Steven his only grandchild?
In the interviews with RTD and cast that aired after each of the 5 episodes of COE, RTD noted that Jack, being the sexual buccaneer that he is, probably had fathered hundreds of children over the years he'd lived, but this was a time to focus on one of them. It makes sense to me, given Jack's sexual appetites.
How many others had he loved in that oh so long life of his, and lost? The way he cried when Ianto died, it did not seem like this was a routine event for him. Ianto seemed like more then a regular fuck for Jack. At best, he enjoyed Ianto. And was trying to protect himself from future hurt when he would loose Ianto.
I think this is where the "Janto" shippers lose sight of the story and focus - to their detriment - on the "love story." Jack has clearly lost many people he loves throughout the centuries he has lived. If the Janto fans would get their heads out of their asses, they'd perhaps recall that even before we knew of his marriage to Alice's mother, he was in love at least once before, during WWII. We saw that in the episode "Small Worlds," where the little old lady, Estelle, has an old picture of a man who looks exactly like Jack. Jack says it's his father, and that he and Estelle were once in a relationship, but the war separated them. So, what we see is that rather than ever tell Estelle about his immortality, Jack used the war as an excuse, and when he finally had contact with Estelle again (since he cared about her), in order to cover up why he had not aged, he pretended to be the son of the man she had loved.
Reply Part IIblkandwhtcatJuly 26 2009, 20:21:55 UTC
Ianto is not the first person Jack has loved, or his first lover who has died. I thought their relationship seemed rather casual. It may well be that he was trying to keep from caring too much, since he knows he'll outlive Ianto. I think that's a reasonable explanation, because he's experienced that pain so many times before. When Ianto dies, I think we're supposed to see that Jack cared very much for Ianto, and his realization that his attempts to limit his emotional involement does not lessen his pain at the loss.
I was thinking tehat TW could not go on, ,ut maybe it can. Jack would have to come back.
Of course TW can go on without Ianto, just as it went on after Suzie, Tosh and Owen died. But of course Jack will come back. He IS TW. (And it's not as if he hasn't run off before. Remember season 2 started out with Jack gone, because he'd chased after the Doctor and was off adventuring with him).
BTW, I just read that TW has been picked up for a fourth season. Excellent!
I am not in the anti-Gwen camp.
Good. I find the Gwen-hate tiresome. Jack is clearly attracted to her and cares about her. The Janto fans need to DEAL with it, because it's a big part of the show. I don't think they will hook up - and for all the whinging the Janto crowd does about how letting Gwen and Rhys be happy is a sign of RTD's homophobia (which in and of itself is a stupid conclusion), they should consider that if Rhys got killed, Jack might just decide to check out the attraction he clearly has for Gwen. I think the QAF-turned-Janto-fans, who are definitely among the tiresome group of whackjobs attacking RTD, talk about Gwen the way they always talked about Michael. They hated the character simply because he was a threat to what they perceived as the Perfect Couple, Brian and Bubble-butt. And by ignoring the fact that Michael was the most important person in Brian's life (although not, IMO, romantically), the B/J shippers totally wigged out at the ending, and could see no happiness for Brian. Duh, he had his best friend. That was kind of the point. That's what made Brian happy, not a romance, not a marriage, and not contiuning to mentor a young man who was more than ready to go out and live his own life.
The mini-series was intense and wrenching. I cry easily. I am still upset about the series. Remember the movie - Sofie's Choice, could not stand that one either. Not big on children being the choice.
Have you ever read Dorothy Dunnett's Lymond Chronicles? If not, I highly recommend them. They are wonderfully researched, beautifully written stories about the adventures of a beautiful young man in the mid-1500s. There are six books in the series, and I'm pages away from finishing the fifth. At the end of the fourth book, the hero, Francis Crawford of Lymond, has to make a decision that in some ways reminds me of Jack's decision. I cried like a baby - I mean, REALLY cried - when I finsished that chapter. Making difficult decisions is what heroes have to do. It's what makes them heroes. They can bear things that other people can't.
Questions - why did the British gov't think destroying TW and the Hub was the answer?
I'd have to go back and rewatch for more clues, but for some reason, they believed that Jack's immortality was somehow connected to the Hub, and that if they destroyed the Hub it would kill him for good.
Did the 456 control earth's children through the child they had taken before? I think yes.
I don't think so. I think they had other means of controlling the children. But you could be right.
Was the old crazy man the 'remnent' that the 456 was talking about? Again, I think yes.
I thought Clem was a wonderful character, and his death was almost as sad as Ianto's. Wonderful acting. Yes, I think he was the "remnant" that 456 referred to, and I think he was right when he kept thinking they knew he was watching them. Gwen thought 456 was talking about those watching via the video feed from the camera, since the negotiations were being broadcast to the room of government officials, but I think they knew Clem could see and hear them.
If this man who lives as a point in time, who can not die, who does not sleep, got one woman pregnant, why, how? Or he had other offspring and got to live to see they and their offsprngs and their offsprings, and on die.
How many others had he loved in that oh so long life of his, and lost? The way he cried when Ianto died, it did not seem like this was a routine event for him. Ianto seemed like more then a regular fuck for Jack. At best, he enjoyed Ianto. And was trying to protect himself from future hurt when he would loose Ianto.
I was thinking that TW could not go on, but maybe it can. Jack would have to come back.
I am not in the anti-Gwen camp.
The mini-series was intense and wrenching. I cry easily. I am still upset about the series. Remember the movie - Sofie's Choice, could not stand that one either. Not big on children being the choice.
Questions - why did the British gov't think destroying TW and the Hub was the answer?
Did the 456 control earth's children through the child they had taken before? I think yes.
Was the old crazy man the 'remnent' that the 456 was talking about? Again, I think yes.
I know I am picking the series to death.
Ahavia
Reply
Is this daughter of Jack's his first and only child? And then Steven his only grandchild?
In the interviews with RTD and cast that aired after each of the 5 episodes of COE, RTD noted that Jack, being the sexual buccaneer that he is, probably had fathered hundreds of children over the years he'd lived, but this was a time to focus on one of them. It makes sense to me, given Jack's sexual appetites.
How many others had he loved in that oh so long life of his, and lost? The way he cried when Ianto died, it did not seem like this was a routine event for him. Ianto seemed like more then a regular fuck for Jack. At best, he enjoyed Ianto. And was trying to protect himself from future hurt when he would loose Ianto.
I think this is where the "Janto" shippers lose sight of the story and focus - to their detriment - on the "love story." Jack has clearly lost many people he loves throughout the centuries he has lived. If the Janto fans would get their heads out of their asses, they'd perhaps recall that even before we knew of his marriage to Alice's mother, he was in love at least once before, during WWII. We saw that in the episode "Small Worlds," where the little old lady, Estelle, has an old picture of a man who looks exactly like Jack. Jack says it's his father, and that he and Estelle were once in a relationship, but the war separated them. So, what we see is that rather than ever tell Estelle about his immortality, Jack used the war as an excuse, and when he finally had contact with Estelle again (since he cared about her), in order to cover up why he had not aged, he pretended to be the son of the man she had loved.
Reply
I was thinking tehat TW could not go on, ,ut maybe it can. Jack would have to come back.
Of course TW can go on without Ianto, just as it went on after Suzie, Tosh and Owen died. But of course Jack will come back. He IS TW. (And it's not as if he hasn't run off before. Remember season 2 started out with Jack gone, because he'd chased after the Doctor and was off adventuring with him).
BTW, I just read that TW has been picked up for a fourth season. Excellent!
I am not in the anti-Gwen camp.
Good. I find the Gwen-hate tiresome. Jack is clearly attracted to her and cares about her. The Janto fans need to DEAL with it, because it's a big part of the show. I don't think they will hook up - and for all the whinging the Janto crowd does about how letting Gwen and Rhys be happy is a sign of RTD's homophobia (which in and of itself is a stupid conclusion), they should consider that if Rhys got killed, Jack might just decide to check out the attraction he clearly has for Gwen. I think the QAF-turned-Janto-fans, who are definitely among the tiresome group of whackjobs attacking RTD, talk about Gwen the way they always talked about Michael. They hated the character simply because he was a threat to what they perceived as the Perfect Couple, Brian and Bubble-butt. And by ignoring the fact that Michael was the most important person in Brian's life (although not, IMO, romantically), the B/J shippers totally wigged out at the ending, and could see no happiness for Brian. Duh, he had his best friend. That was kind of the point. That's what made Brian happy, not a romance, not a marriage, and not contiuning to mentor a young man who was more than ready to go out and live his own life.
The mini-series was intense and wrenching. I cry easily. I am still upset about the series. Remember the movie - Sofie's Choice, could not stand that one either. Not big on children being the choice.
Have you ever read Dorothy Dunnett's Lymond Chronicles? If not, I highly recommend them. They are wonderfully researched, beautifully written stories about the adventures of a beautiful young man in the mid-1500s. There are six books in the series, and I'm pages away from finishing the fifth. At the end of the fourth book, the hero, Francis Crawford of Lymond, has to make a decision that in some ways reminds me of Jack's decision. I cried like a baby - I mean, REALLY cried - when I finsished that chapter. Making difficult decisions is what heroes have to do. It's what makes them heroes. They can bear things that other people can't.
Questions - why did the British gov't think destroying TW and the Hub was the answer?
I'd have to go back and rewatch for more clues, but for some reason, they believed that Jack's immortality was somehow connected to the Hub, and that if they destroyed the Hub it would kill him for good.
Did the 456 control earth's children through the child they had taken before? I think yes.
I don't think so. I think they had other means of controlling the children. But you could be right.
Was the old crazy man the 'remnent' that the 456 was talking about? Again, I think yes.
I thought Clem was a wonderful character, and his death was almost as sad as Ianto's. Wonderful acting. Yes, I think he was the "remnant" that 456 referred to, and I think he was right when he kept thinking they knew he was watching them. Gwen thought 456 was talking about those watching via the video feed from the camera, since the negotiations were being broadcast to the room of government officials, but I think they knew Clem could see and hear them.
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