Oct 24, 2010 03:02
all aboard the failboat,
wtf,
batshanging,
episode picspam review,
overcredited and underappreciated,
omgwhy,
don't chagrin me,
picspam,
*facepalm*,
angels are not so obi wan,
fearthewrathofthe eta,
meta,
tentaculacular,
nobody asked you,
on the other other hand,
anansi boys,
sam!,
wat,
word of the day,
but what does it mean,
sam is dean and dean is sam,
pretentious fan is pretentious,
there are no words,
113,
omgdean,
hang onto your ass,
going to hell,
review,
blah,
omgsam,
oh noes
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Maybe it's a sacred sponge.
That doesn't mean that he's not feelling things or that he doesn't have empathy.... What he ISN'T being is completely genuine.
*glee*
Also, I agree.
Because this time Sam really sucks at lying. Sam has never sucked at lying. Ever. EVER ever. And THAT, more than anything, makes this feel like it's not 100% Sam.
*thoughtful face*
Mm, I'm not convinced. I think, like the other "people skills" that people "other than Cas" are "rusty" on, he kind of forgot that it's not easy to lie to Dean. The family he's been hunting with - everyone keeps secrets, no one pushes, and none of them have any kind of history with Sam that would make lying to them hard for him when he chooses to. With Samuel, in 605? That was pretty convincing. I was watching it thinking if I hadn't seen it - and if Samuel wasn't sure that he'd told Sam about the cure already, and if I hadn't been watching this kid's tells when he lies for five years now - I'd probably buy it.
The year on his own, after Hell, I think he just forgot what it was like to live with and be scrutinized by his soulmate, all the little tricks he used to employ to keep things from Dean. (And withholding information was always the best tactic; flat-out lying to Dean never really worked very well for him at any point.) He's forgotten that Dean is going to notice and question about motives and when things are off. It's been taking him by surprise when he has to lie, and how many of the old, disused systems he had to bring online or kick up a gear or two to do so.
Then there's also the fact that he's conflicted about lying to Dean now. Conflicted liars are bad liars. I mean, there is no hard evidence for this at all so far, but I think he is. He used to lie because he was afraid or ashamed of what he was, but he's neither anymore. There's no personal, emotional climate of needing to hide himself or justify himself to Dean. Dean is not the keeper of Sam's identity anymore. And I think, underneath it all, he does want the share his burdens with Dean. But, as you say, he also doesn't want to hurt Dean with this stuff. And these are gut things, and the head things like logic and good strategy are running the show right now.
And here I thought I didn't have much to say this time. Huh.
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I thought this was very perceptive, and I agree with it, in that it feels very true to what I'm seeing also.
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I was mostly trying to illustrate the things about Sam that make it feel like he isn't Sam anymore. Even when he's lied before, we knew he was withholding information.
I'd be most intrigued with a discussion about whether we as the audience would know Sam is lying unless we had the barometer of Dean's reactions to rely on.
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Ah, feel like it isn't Sam. Gotcha. Or rather, that Sam has changed in REALLY interesting ways. \o/
Interesting idea that it's only Dean's reactions that tell us Sam is lying. Which would raise the question of whether there's a level of lies that none of us have ever picked up on because Dean didn't. I'm kind of uncomfortable with that, because it makes Sam an impossible character to know - we the audience ought to be privileged observers in that sense, not relegated to the level of in-universe characters, even Dean. It works with Keyser Soze for a single movie, but for six seasons of episodes it's too much suspicion, undermines too much structure by removing an entire character from a two-character show.
Mind you, despite what I said about Dean and Samuel's suspicion (and Show itself) making the lie a lock, and it otherwise being convincing, I was talking about someone who knows Sam more casually. Christian, or someone. Like I said, watching this kid for five years, I know what tells Jared uses to signal Sam's lies. It's not just going on what I've seen Dean react to as lies. I, as a viewer, wouldn't buy it for a second. I, as an in-story random clueless in the presence of the unreasonably attractive moose would almost definitely give him the benefit of the doubt (although I myself am pretty suspicious, so I might also reserve final judgement).
Idunno. What are you thinking about it? *is curious*
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There was a time when we may not have known when Sam was lying without Dean as a barometer. Now that we know Sam, it's easy for us to tell when he's lying, even when Dean isn't around. But my poorly-made point was that Dean taught us, and so how we as an audience have generally come to see Sam is usually derived from what Dean sees and worries about. The way to twist that long-established dynamic is that, while Sam remains the same X-factor he's always been in your line of sight, other things are going on with Dean that no one is mentioning because Sam isn't doing anything other than squinting so far.
FWIW
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:D
other things are going on with Dean that no one is mentioning because Sam isn't doing anything other than squinting so far.
Yeah, and I agree, it's a great way to play with that dynamic. It's like Dean not twigging to Sam going seriously off the rails in S3. It's easy to see how desperate Sam was (as it is now easy to see how Dean is struggling to integrate his two lives), but not how far he was ready and willing to go. At least not immediately. Which means this season is looking iiiiiinnteresting. :)
... Of course, we are so hair-trigger when it comes to ANYTHING being wrong with our boys, it's not a question of whether we'll react, but what we're reacting to.
[SPELLING GRR]
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