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So Denny told me in his sweetly unromantic way that he is pretty much going to propose this year. I'm stoked (of course). Unfortunately he's talking about it like it's more of a burden and a obstacle then something to be rejoicing over. Nevertheless I'm still excited. I've been staring at pics of wedding dresses and googling wedding customs.
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My apologies for going off on you but seriously man...you really need to understand that there are bigger things in this world then your intellectual ego and selfish, misguided world views. My understanding of God is not complete...nor do I doubt it ever will be. However, I have faith in Him that His will is best for our lives. I believe this through hearing, reading, seeing, and experiencing it. As humans, we are created to have faith in the unknown. Unfortunately, that tends to be a downside when lured away from God. We will believe what we choose to believe. I just pray that you do more research. Not to understand God as I do...but to understand Him as He wants us to. Let me know what you think.
-Sean
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When a person is so unaccepting of another's beliefs that he would stubbornly protest and absent himself from his own granddaughter's wedding if she dares to express religious beliefs that do match his own, this is called intolerance by definition. Religious persons are infamous for such intolerance. (Admittedly, it could be worse; modern American Christians have not shown themselves to be violently intolerant like male Afghani muslims have demonstrated themselves to be, or even as colonial American Christians were in Salem.)
You fear anarchy and chaos, so you seek the comfort of a god who provides you with structure and direction. Not everyone is afraid of "chaos" though, for some see the opportunity for innovation and improvement within it.
You do not understand Renee and you do not understand her beliefs. You do not even understand the intolerance that she endures or her emotional turmoil because of it. Since you do not understand these things and therefore fail to be able to offer her any appreciable support in regards to them, you should strongly reconsider whether you should even be commenting in her journal. This journal is for her, not your fictitious Jesus. Attempting to redirect the focus of this journal toward your personally chosen god is egotistical, and disrespectful toward Renee.
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Have I mentioned your intellectual ego? You never cease to amaze me. So your new tactic will be to now downplay my intelligence by saying I can't understand due to my "insufficiently simple true-or-false dichotomy". Wow...classy. Look, you underestimate truth. A = A. 1 + 1 = 2. Truth, get it? Now, of course, we have in math certain 'proofs' where 1 + 1 (does not)= 2...we also have imaginary numbers and so forth. The claim of objective truth just doesn't fly in the world. There is absolute truth...if not then there would be chaos no matter if you wanted it or not. If people don't have food...they die. Same goes for water or falling out of a building (with no parachute). I don't know what else I can tell you. If you refuse to believe in basic truths, how can I expect you to believe in the Truth? If you wish, however, please explain your "approximative model of knowledge" so I might better understand your point-of-view. By the way, I'm not denying there are never absolutes in this world. Please don't misunderstand that.
"this is called intolerance by definition"
Thanks for the definition. Look, I see your point and I'm not ignorant to what intolerance means. You're comparing apples and oranges here, though. Renee's family is being 'intolerant' of her choices with good cause based on their beliefs. These beliefs supersede PC standards of tolerance. You went to the extreme of intolerance by comparing that with Islamist extremists. I am inclined to agree with you. However, Renee's family is 'intolerant' (in your eyes) not because of hate (extremes) but out of love for her...and God! As I said previously, they love and care for her. They only want the best (as do I). I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. Hmmm...an analogy perhaps? Would you support your daughter/sister/brother/etc. if they were doing something you didn't agree and you foresaw certain negative effects in their life as a result? Ordinarily, I would hope the answer would be no. Although you suppose there is no absolute truth (hence, right or wrong) so I'm uncertain what your answer will be...
"You fear anarchy and chaos, so you seek the comfort of a god who provides you with structure and direction. Not everyone is afraid of "chaos" though, for some see the opportunity for innovation and improvement within it."
I agree that there is opportunity in chaos. God challenges us with trials all the time in order for growth and closeness to Him as a result of it. I'll always seek God in chaos. At times I'll be afraid, other times I won't. What is your point?
"You do not understand Renee and you do not understand her beliefs."
Hmmm...you may be right. I don't understand Renee or her beliefs as you claim you do. We have not really spoken for a few years now. It would be very difficult for me to still understand her as I did before (assuming I understood her even then). That said, it will be my resolve to keep commenting in an effort to understand and leave support leading her to the path to God. You seem to be under the misguided view that understanding = agreement. I belief no such thing. I understand a lot of things in this world. Does that mean I agree with them? Without sounding egotistical, I am beginning to understand you. Yet it is clear we agree on very little (supernaturally speaking). What do you make of that? While I don't understand everything Renee goes through, I do understand -- more then you know -- what it's like to endure intolerance on a daily basis. I understand what's it like to be ridiculed for my beliefs. I understand the emotional turmoil that is causes. Yes, I understand that about Renee. So I will continue to comment, to debate with you, and offer her support when I can. I care about Renee, too. I know the Truth and I will speak the Truth. If you disagree, please let me know and we can talk. B-)
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A statement such as "If people don't have food they die" is indeed a highly accurate declaration, but the statement itself is still just an approximation. Try to define the word food exactly and you will start to see what I mean.
You say that "Renee's family is being 'intolerant' of her choices with good cause based on their beliefs". Every religious zealot who has ever tortured or murdered someone has done so believing that they had "good cause based on their beliefs". Religious beliefs have been used to justify all manner of atrocities throughout the world's history. The problem is the religious mentality itself: it is the delusion that one somehow knows an absolute truth, as decreed by a god.
You said, "it will be my resolve to keep commenting in an effort to... leave support leading her to the path to God." That is exactly the narrow-minded egotism I accused you of previously. She does not want to be lead to your petty and jealous god, so "support leading her to the path to God" does not equal genuine support. You don't seem to understand what it actually means for one human to be genuinely supportive of another. You would not be leading her to "God" anyway; rather, you would be leading her to your beliefs regarding divinity, which are just personal ego conveniently masked as a god. You believe that you somehow know "the Truth", but that belief is misguided delusion.
Again, attempting to redirect the focus of this journal toward your personally chosen god/truth is egotistical, and disrespectful toward Renee.
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'the difference between a magnifying lens and a microscope'
Look, I appreciate your analysis of the true-false dichotomy. It appears to be thought out and you honestly seem to believe it. As such, you are still mistaken. Truth is truth. There is no way around it. This concept of microscope vs. magnifying glass is impressive but we are still dealing with the same thing, in this case, food. As we take a closer look at the term 'food', we see that food composes many things. In short, food could be defined as anything that gives the body sustenance (i.e. energy, life, etc.) (See http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/food) That being said, we are still left with the absolute truth stating, "Without food, you will die." Now then, if we were to use your analogy to other aspects of life -- the issue of marijuana -- then you would begin to be correct. For example, marijuana is illegal in America (in all states, I think. If I'm wrong then my point is strengthened.). However, in some states, marijuana is allowed for medical purposes (like Michigan). So, here we have a law stating one thing but we see a contradiction at the same time. So going back to your microscope vs. magnifying glass analogy, now we could make a case saying, "In a broad sense, marijuana is illegal, however, in a more specific sense, it is legal for certain purposes.' See what I mean? The difference between both examples is truth. Saying you will die without food is a proven absolute, however, saying marijuana is illegal is a relative term. Further, it is completely legal (to an extent) in Amsterdam (nice place to visit, cool museums). Does this make sense to you? Do you better understand what I'm trying to say?
'Every religious zealot who has ever tortured or murdered someone has done so believing that they had "good cause based on their beliefs". Religious beliefs have been used to justify all manner of atrocities throughout the world's history.'
I think you're using religion as a cop-out for human behavior. Surely you see how people have done all sorts of horrible things throughout history and religion was not a factor. I mean, it's simply not logical to blame religion for people acting foolishly. For example, I could use the old 'atheist editorships of the past' argument to prove my point, but that is too easy. Let's consider this: adultery, murder, or thefts are things people do in life. Not many people would say these are good things. Now then, if we see people only doing these things for religious beliefs then we could attribute blame to religion. However, as you know, people do these things all the time and religion is no where to be found. The truth is that people who do bad things never think they are bad -- religious or otherwise. A murderer does not see himself as evil, nor does the adulterer, nor the thief. All of these actions are rationalized and justified in their own minds. This is a constant throughout human history. As recorded in Proverbs 14:12 and again in Proverbs 16:25, "There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death." So now you see what I mean, that it is not ‘religious beliefs’ that ‘have been used to justify all manner of atrocities throughout the world's history’, but, in fact, people themselves. I hope you can understand this fundamental concept.
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I have defended this position enough in our 2-year conversation. I still don’t understand why you can’t comprehend this. It has nothing to do with me, and everything to do with Renee. You claim that I’m leading her to my own personal beliefs. That is foolish at best. In fact, you would be guilty of the same thing. You're constantly trying to have Renee believe in your particular brand of truth. In your case, there is no absolute truth. I’m confused what your motive is then. Clearly, I stand to gain no benefit for Renee coming to Christ. Out of love for her, I wish her an eternal happiness. You, on the other hand, want her to believe in something…but for what purpose? To free her? To have her see something that Jesus can’t offer? I mean seriously, what’s the point? An explanation would be desired. I mean let’s think logically for a second. If you don’t believe in God, then what reason do you have to be concerned what Renee believes in or anybody else for that matter? Do you have some sort of righteous reason? Please let me know.
Well, I hope this has cleared some things up for you. Let me know what you think about my responses and as always, offer your retorts. I love talking about this with you. Hope everything is going well. By the way, what do you do for living?
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