Oh - and I know we're gonna argue about this for the next...forever, probably (hey, Spike'll have company! ;^P) - GOOD.
Because, if she didn't come back, then we would get no explanation. We'd get no closure*. I think back to how much I HATED Jack in his first episodes and how I would still hate him if we had left it at that... Granted, Moffat hasn't yet written for him since then, so it's not really an exact comparison. But I like the _idea_ of (most of) the sort of story that is being told with this character, and I really want to be able to understand why The Doctor apparently likes her so much. Y'know, eventually.
That said, "David was brilliant but very, very straight"?! What the FROODY?! Can we just...NOT hear from most of the people involved in this show from now on? Please and thank you.
* Which is weird, since...y'know...closure usually comes at the END of a story, not the beginning; this is what I love about Moffat - he actually uses the time travel IN his story telling instead of just using it as a way to get The Doctor from story to story. Which is SO COOL.
Oh, definitely definitely. I'm just confused and annoyed by the comment because 1) when have "straight" and "sexy" been opposite/mutually exclusive ways of acting?, 2) what about thesetwo clips or this one (shared with me by BizOp)? How is that playing it "straight"?, and 3) doesn't it make absolutely perfect sense that he played it "straight" when acting against her character, given the circumstances? Ten didn't really like or trust her, so Tennant's not likely to be "sexy" with her, yeah? I read this comment basically as, "Wah wah, I had more fun with Smith because Tennant didn't flirt with me because he is a good actor who understands his character and the story, wah wah."
Considering I already hate her character, this remark from the actress (and your point behind it) doesn't do much to endear her to me. All I can think in her defense is -- maybe she was just fishing for something to say? And trying to build up Smith in order to continue helping him get past the slight obstacle of David Tennant's incredible popularity in the role?? (Because we fans can talk till we're blue in the face about how Tennant was TENTH in the role and he's no more The Ultimate Doctor than any of the OTHER actors and that the show has ALWAYS been about accepting new actors in the lead role and it's maddening the way people keep talking about how Tennant was the best ever and now Smith has such big shoes to fill and blah blah blee -- but the simple undeniable truth is that, for probably like three-fourths of the current viewing modern audience, _Tennant is the most-beloved Doctor_ and Smith therefore has big shoes to fill. Not that you've actually been saying anything differently, but I'm tired of OTHER fans insisting that Tennant leaving the role is no different from any other actor leaving it. Whereas the last time the role change was this big a deal was probably when Tom Baker left. But anyway. XD)
So maybe she was just trying to encourage people to love Smith for his differences and warm up to his unique interpretation of the character. Of course, the other thing she could be doing is saying that Matt Smith plays up the Doctor as a BLATANT sexpot when he encounters River Song this time, in which case I will have to kill myself. Or, y'know, at least not watch the episodes. Not that I'm planning on watching them anyway. If I watch any of them at all because Moffat is beginning to drive me literally and clinically insane. But you get my point.
I tried to take it that way, and assumed that, somewhere between the actress' original comment and the Beeb's attempts to make sure Smith gets a good, enthusiastic reception, that line was cherry picked specifically TO highlight differences in a good way...but I SO wish we could do that without backhanding the previous actor*.
As for Smith, from the first two episodes, he seems to be doing an amazing job (if you decide to watch nothing else from the Moffat-helmed episodes, you need to see how...DOCTORLY he is in "The Beast Below"...even given that line that makes me worry about whether or not he's learned anything), and, from the evidence provided thus far, I cannot imagine him being "sexy." But then, a comment made in "The Eleventh Hour," combined with what we know of other Moffat productions, has me convinced that Eleven's sexuality is going to be a complicated and probably unfortunate issue. All evidence I've seen to this point suggests he's more repressed than any Doctor since Five, if not earlier, but, well...I'll believe that's gonna hold true throughout when I SEE it.
* I say this now, but watch me pull out the old "...but Eccleston and Baker T didn't LOVE the show the same way" chestnut the next time I'm talking about how much I love Ten and Five. [grimace of recognized hypocrisy]
for probably like three-fourths of the current viewing modern audience, _Tennant is the most-beloved Doctor_
I think you're probably right that he's been the most loved in New Who, but I don't think most viewers care enough to be hostile to Eleven over it. Even most fans seem to have had no trouble picking him up - I haven't heard of any wank yet, and my flist's pretty good at linking to silly wank.
Oh, no, I mean -- I don't mean that I think new viewers will be outright HOSTILE to Eleven. It's more about me just wanting die-hard Whovians to admit that the majority of the viewing audience will be spending a little more time adjusting to Eleven after Ten than they spent adjusting to Ten after Nine -- simply because, while people liked Nine a lot, the show EXPLODED with Ten in the role. So it's not that I expect wank among mainstream fans -- it's merely that I'm tired of hearing, "Why are people being so stupid and saying that they're gonna miss Ten because he was the best Doctor and wah wah wah?!? This show is all ABOUT the lead actor changing, people need to shut up about how much they'll miss Tennant!!"
Because, while I think the mainstream fans are totally ready to love Eleven (I think the show's been getting good rating numbers, yes?) -- it's just that _Tennant was so popular in the role_. But a lot of Classic Who fans seem to get mad when you suggest that, yes, Eleven is gonna have a harder time filling Ten's shoes than Ten had a hard time filling Nine's, simply because Ten was so popular. That's all.
... if that made sense. I am struggling to explain this and pro'ly not doing a very good job. ;-)
it's merely that I'm tired of hearing, "Why are people being so stupid and saying that they're gonna miss Ten because he was the best Doctor and wah wah wah?!? This show is all ABOUT the lead actor changing, people need to shut up about how much they'll miss Tennant!!"
I can understand that, even though I haven't seen it (as I don't really participate in fandom). Of course people who really loved Ten will need to adjust to Eleven. But there's enough of Ten in Eleven - almost too much, really - that I think the majority of the audience probably only took a few minutes to do it. I just don't see most people outside of fandom really caring too terribly much about who is playing the Doctor (unless it's a woman or a black man, which seems to offend a lot of crazed fanboys); I think people probably like the change-up for the variety. There were so many episodes with Tennant that I expect people are ready for a change, and since nowadays we're used to rewatching past series people aren't as touchy about not getting new episodes as they were when Four changed to Five.
From the Gallifrey News Base:
The Sydney Morning Herald has rated 'The Eleventh Hour' its 'show of the week' with Michael Idato writing that 'the real surprise is the manner in which Matt Smith owns the role completely from the very first frame. Any fear there might be teething problems or some lingering affection for his predecessor...failed to materialise. The verdict? Great, big, wallopy, timey-wimey brilliant.' Dianne Butler of the The Daily Telegraph also gives the program four stars, while Kerrie Murphy of the The Weekend Australian writes it 'is a pretty darn fantastic first full outing for the 11th doctor...Not only is Smith great but so is the story, which sees the Doctor crashing into the life of a feisty young girl who is visited by an unusual escapee prisoner. It nails the Doctor Who formula, mixing comedy with genuine tension and emotion.' Scott Ellis of the Sunday Age also writes of the new Doctor that he 'will take some getting used to but, by the end of this first adventure, Smith shows he has what it takes to reinvent the character again.' The Sunday Age also makes the episode one of its picks of the day also writing, 'Steven Moffat - the man who brought us two of the best-ever Doctor Who eps (Blink, The Girl in the Fireplace) is now head boy. Add the fabulous Matt Smith to the mix as the new Doctor and we're set for a superb series.' Moffat is also interviewed by David Knox of TV Tonight.
Well, I don't think it's quite fair to criticize her on it just yet, as we haven't seen the episode and don't know what they're like together in it. I don't think it's quite fair to read it that way, either, unless Alex Kingston has a history of badmouthing co-stars whose characters don't flirt with her. There's nothing to suggest that she's whining, or even that she's really contrasting sexy and straight. There's no context given at all.
I have no idea what she means by "quirky but straight", since they're sort of opposites, but I guess it's related to the way Tennant's always very "RAWR I AM THE DOCTOR AND FIRE AND LIGHT" when he's showing off his authority and it seemed like Eleven was a little bouncier with it.
Spoiler warning: Contains a fragment of a line from 502magratpudifootApril 19 2010, 02:09:21 UTC
Mmm...I dunno so much about _bouncy_. Not in this context, at least. I do completely agree with you that Tennant went _way_ intense, but, I mean, "nobody HUMAN"? That was up there with a classic Six rant*. Both of them - Ten and Eleven - have their very friendly, very bouncy moments, and they both get shouty. They are the Doctor, after all. "Silence in the Library" required a good deal of shoutiness, by virtue of the sort of story being told; I assume the S5/31 Song episodes will call for less of that sort of thing. So it's not fair for the article to present Tennant's demeanor while acting alongside Kingston as though that is how he always was on set.
As for my criticising the actress, it _isn't_ entirely fair, because, as you say, we haven't seen the episodes and there wasn't much context. But any time I hear "[Something] was [complimentary adjective], but [some description that differs from the praise being given to another something]," I kind of assume the comparison was meant to highlight the perceived deficiencies of the something in question, and the compliment offered to excuse/qualify the speaker's criticism. If she had just left out any mention of Tennant, I would have been much happier. Not thrilled, but happier.
I am trying to grab on to anything I possibly can to make the whole River Song story jive with my idea of who the Doctor is and what his show is about, and I am getting a bit frustrated that everything I see seems to make it less likely that will ever happen. I'm quite draconian when it comes to the word "sexy" being used as a descriptor for the Doctor (not the actors who have played the character, mind, but the character himself), and reading an article that insinuates a particular actor has performed the role _with the intention of being sexy_ makes me very wary, indeed.
* I love Six to little pieces and don't mean this as a bad thing.
Re: Spoiler warning: Contains a fragment of a line from 502chocolatepotApril 20 2010, 21:46:16 UTC
Bouncy wasn't quite the right word, but there's a sort of ... joy? to it when he's telling people he's the Doctor and will defend Earth. Whereas when I think of Tennant doing it, it's more angry and spitty. And I'm basing this off three episodes, so it really doesn't mean much.
I read the quote as similar to "He's intelligent, but very humble" or "He's a good cook, but can't measure" - the latter modifies the former but isn't a statement of preference or disparagement. And I don't think there's any indication that she thought he was acting in a sexy manner, just that he himself is sexy. I do see her making a comparison between the two, as Tennant isn't conventionally sexy and many people find him unsexy.
Because, if she didn't come back, then we would get no explanation. We'd get no closure*. I think back to how much I HATED Jack in his first episodes and how I would still hate him if we had left it at that... Granted, Moffat hasn't yet written for him since then, so it's not really an exact comparison. But I like the _idea_ of (most of) the sort of story that is being told with this character, and I really want to be able to understand why The Doctor apparently likes her so much. Y'know, eventually.
That said, "David was brilliant but very, very straight"?! What the FROODY?! Can we just...NOT hear from most of the people involved in this show from now on? Please and thank you.
* Which is weird, since...y'know...closure usually comes at the END of a story, not the beginning; this is what I love about Moffat - he actually uses the time travel IN his story telling instead of just using it as a way to get The Doctor from story to story. Which is SO COOL.
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But I'm just a biznatch like that, I guess.
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So maybe she was just trying to encourage people to love Smith for his differences and warm up to his unique interpretation of the character. Of course, the other thing she could be doing is saying that Matt Smith plays up the Doctor as a BLATANT sexpot when he encounters River Song this time, in which case I will have to kill myself. Or, y'know, at least not watch the episodes. Not that I'm planning on watching them anyway. If I watch any of them at all because Moffat is beginning to drive me literally and clinically insane. But you get my point.
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As for Smith, from the first two episodes, he seems to be doing an amazing job (if you decide to watch nothing else from the Moffat-helmed episodes, you need to see how...DOCTORLY he is in "The Beast Below"...even given that line that makes me worry about whether or not he's learned anything), and, from the evidence provided thus far, I cannot imagine him being "sexy." But then, a comment made in "The Eleventh Hour," combined with what we know of other Moffat productions, has me convinced that Eleven's sexuality is going to be a complicated and probably unfortunate issue. All evidence I've seen to this point suggests he's more repressed than any Doctor since Five, if not earlier, but, well...I'll believe that's gonna hold true throughout when I SEE it.
* I say this now, but watch me pull out the old "...but Eccleston and Baker T didn't LOVE the show the same way" chestnut the next time I'm talking about how much I love Ten and Five. [grimace of recognized hypocrisy]
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I think you're probably right that he's been the most loved in New Who, but I don't think most viewers care enough to be hostile to Eleven over it. Even most fans seem to have had no trouble picking him up - I haven't heard of any wank yet, and my flist's pretty good at linking to silly wank.
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Because, while I think the mainstream fans are totally ready to love Eleven (I think the show's been getting good rating numbers, yes?) -- it's just that _Tennant was so popular in the role_. But a lot of Classic Who fans seem to get mad when you suggest that, yes, Eleven is gonna have a harder time filling Ten's shoes than Ten had a hard time filling Nine's, simply because Ten was so popular. That's all.
... if that made sense. I am struggling to explain this and pro'ly not doing a very good job. ;-)
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I can understand that, even though I haven't seen it (as I don't really participate in fandom). Of course people who really loved Ten will need to adjust to Eleven. But there's enough of Ten in Eleven - almost too much, really - that I think the majority of the audience probably only took a few minutes to do it. I just don't see most people outside of fandom really caring too terribly much about who is playing the Doctor (unless it's a woman or a black man, which seems to offend a lot of crazed fanboys); I think people probably like the change-up for the variety. There were so many episodes with Tennant that I expect people are ready for a change, and since nowadays we're used to rewatching past series people aren't as touchy about not getting new episodes as they were when Four changed to Five.
From the Gallifrey News Base:
The Sydney Morning Herald has rated 'The Eleventh Hour' its 'show of the week' with Michael Idato writing that 'the real surprise is the manner in which Matt Smith owns the role completely from the very first frame. Any fear there might be teething problems or some lingering affection for his predecessor...failed to materialise. The verdict? Great, big, wallopy, timey-wimey brilliant.' Dianne Butler of the The Daily Telegraph also gives the program four stars, while Kerrie Murphy of the The Weekend Australian writes it 'is a pretty darn fantastic first full outing for the 11th doctor...Not only is Smith great but so is the story, which sees the Doctor crashing into the life of a feisty young girl who is visited by an unusual escapee prisoner. It nails the Doctor Who formula, mixing comedy with genuine tension and emotion.' Scott Ellis of the Sunday Age also writes of the new Doctor that he 'will take some getting used to but, by the end of this first adventure, Smith shows he has what it takes to reinvent the character again.' The Sunday Age also makes the episode one of its picks of the day also writing, 'Steven Moffat - the man who brought us two of the best-ever Doctor Who eps (Blink, The Girl in the Fireplace) is now head boy. Add the fabulous Matt Smith to the mix as the new Doctor and we're set for a superb series.' Moffat is also interviewed by David Knox of TV Tonight.
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I have no idea what she means by "quirky but straight", since they're sort of opposites, but I guess it's related to the way Tennant's always very "RAWR I AM THE DOCTOR AND FIRE AND LIGHT" when he's showing off his authority and it seemed like Eleven was a little bouncier with it.
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As for my criticising the actress, it _isn't_ entirely fair, because, as you say, we haven't seen the episodes and there wasn't much context. But any time I hear "[Something] was [complimentary adjective], but [some description that differs from the praise being given to another something]," I kind of assume the comparison was meant to highlight the perceived deficiencies of the something in question, and the compliment offered to excuse/qualify the speaker's criticism. If she had just left out any mention of Tennant, I would have been much happier. Not thrilled, but happier.
I am trying to grab on to anything I possibly can to make the whole River Song story jive with my idea of who the Doctor is and what his show is about, and I am getting a bit frustrated that everything I see seems to make it less likely that will ever happen. I'm quite draconian when it comes to the word "sexy" being used as a descriptor for the Doctor (not the actors who have played the character, mind, but the character himself), and reading an article that insinuates a particular actor has performed the role _with the intention of being sexy_ makes me very wary, indeed.
* I love Six to little pieces and don't mean this as a bad thing.
Edited because I can't spell...
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I read the quote as similar to "He's intelligent, but very humble" or "He's a good cook, but can't measure" - the latter modifies the former but isn't a statement of preference or disparagement. And I don't think there's any indication that she thought he was acting in a sexy manner, just that he himself is sexy. I do see her making a comparison between the two, as Tennant isn't conventionally sexy and many people find him unsexy.
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