Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End: Just a few personal impressions

[bimo]

So I went to see AWE yesterday, together with Cavendish at the Lichtburg Essen.

Comments

[ex_galadhir]

From what I've heard, apologies are already accepted and Molly would actually quite enjoy it if you carried on talking to her, now that she has understood the situation too :)

what the ancient storytellers did was developing something further that had been growing for, maybe, centuries; which was very complex, part of a cultural identity formed by the people themselves.

But they did so in the light of things which were happening in their own culture and their own minds - and even their own lives. They re-interpreted the material in order to make it meaningful for them. So, whether we like it or not, big Disney films *are* part of our culture and are as available for this process as anything else. In my own case CotBP inspired me to research the history of the British Navy - thus learning more about my own culture. I interpreted the story through the lens of my own culture, and my fanfic which arose out of it owes as much to Patrick O'Brian, and the works of various historians as it does to the Pirates franchise.

The sequels have proved, in fact, that what I got from CotBP was probably not what I was supposed to get. If AWE is to be believed, I was supposed to be reading some kind of pirates=colonialists=free American citizens, navy=evil forces of Old World Imperialism thing. But clearly that was a case of me *not* getting Disney's message.

To me, the films are raw material which I can shape into something that means something to me - that's the power of being a fanwriter. But that only happens if you free yourself from the opinion that the 'canon' is authoritative - that you have to accept Disney's take on the story as the be-all and end-all of it. And as Molly was saying, the minute you don't accept that, liberates the story and turns it into something you can use to tell your own stories in a way that makes sense to you.

I wonder if fanfic writers do not treat the products of the cultural indusrty more serious than they deserve?

I think that yes, they almost certainly do, particularly the canon purists, and those people who are prepared to take everything the writers say as gospel truth, and will not dare deviate from it. Yet at the same time that process of picking something apart and filling in the holes is an interesting exercise in world building. Whether that's artistically valuable or not, I don't know - but it's fun :)

it is, for me, sometimes sad to see how much less attention things written which are not, or only slightly fandom related, get on lj,

Well... yes, but on the other hand, if you join a community which is held together by a common love for -say- fly fishing, you can probably expect a high level of interest in your posts about fly fishing and a low level of interest in your posts about anything else. The audience is pre-selected that way.

[cavendish]

>From what I've heard, apologies are already accepted and Molly would actually quite enjoy it if you carried on talking to her, now that she has understood the situation too :)

:-))

>So, whether we like it or not, big Disney films *are* part of our culture and are as available for this process as anything else.

Yes, they surely are, especially Disney. The first film my mother ever watched on the screen was Bambi, and, by coincidence, so was mine. (Man, I was frightened because of the forest fire).

As long as these things do not replace other parts of cultural life. And sometimes I am afraid and sad because of the things, of ideas lost. But as you have pointed out, it may work the other way round and I am just a cultural pessimist, thats all ;-)

>s much to Patrick O'Brian,

are his novels worth the try? I only read about them as yet ;-).

>Yet at the same time that process of picking something apart and filling in the holes is an interesting exercise in world building. Whether that's artistically valuable or not, I don't know - but it's fun :)

"interesting exercise in world building." *lol*. Come on, now ;-)).

Anyhow thanks again for the interesting discussion. Although I do not post much about fandom and manage to write in lj only once a month or so, would you mind if I added you to my friends list?

Oh, and I reckon you know the following poem, (as I understand it is quite famous in English speaking countries, though not here in Germany), but for everybody who does no know it: I think it suits the topic (pirates, that is, not discussions about fandom ;-)) )

"Sea-Fever"

I must down to the seas again, to the lonely sea and the sky,
And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by,
And the wheel's kick and the wind's song and the white sail's shaking,
And a grey mist on the sea's face, and a grey dawn breaking.

I must down to the seas again, for the call of the running tide
Is a wild call and a clear call that may not be denied;
And all I ask is a windy day with the white clouds flying,
And the flung spray and the blown spume, and the sea-gulls crying.

I must down to the seas again, to the vagrant gypsy life,
To the gull's way and the whale's way where the wind's like a whetted knife;
And all I ask is a merry yarn from a laughing fellow-rover
And quiet sleep and a sweet dream when the long trick's over.

By John Masefield (1878-1967).
(English Poet Laureate, 1930-1967.)

PS.:

>Well... yes, but on the other hand, if you join a community which is held together by a common love for -say- fly fishing, you can probably expect a high level of interest in your posts about fly fishing and a low level of interest in your posts about anything else.

;-)). Just for the arguments sake: They could discuss Hemingway, could they not?

PPS.: I understand that you are moving at the moment (i.e. bimo told me) so again thanks for taking your time :-). I too must be off to my desk now ;-) (Correcting exam papers. A schoolteachers delight ;-)) )

[ex_galadhir]

Sorry about disappearing in the middle of a conversation, but yes, we were moving house. I'm now back, though only on dial-up for the moment, and would be delighted if you friended me - though I don't know how much longer I will be involved in fandom as an active writer. I'm trying to break into original fic these days.

Allow me a massive fangirl squee over Patrick O'Brian :) I'm quite middle aged now, and it had been a good 10 years since I last found an author who made me feel as though my life had changed by discovering them - then I read 'Master and Commander' and felt as though my days of teenage fangirling had come again ;)

Patrick O'Brian's books are absolutely marvellous. He's as fine a social observer as Jane Austen, has a fantastic feel for the period, a beautiful deft way with description, the battles, chases, daring rescues and political machinations are all immersive and believable, and his characterization is unparalleled, and to top this off, his writing style is light and witty, and sometimes laugh out loud funny.

"interesting exercise in world building." *lol*. Come on, now ;-)).

*g* No, I mean it. I suspect that fans put a lot more effort into closing the plot holes and reconciling the inconsistencies in the universes they play in than the original creators - and that can become a process of creating a parallel world to the original one of the canon. Often one that works better.

They could discuss Hemingway, could they not?

They could! And probably would. But it would be natural for fewer people to be interested in Hemingway even on a fly-fishing list, than were interested in fly-fishing itself.

Thanks for the poem! It is lovely, and reminds me that Age of Sail, and Tolkien have a fair amount in common:

And all I ask is a windy day with the white clouds flying,
And the flung spray and the blown spume, and the sea-gulls crying.

*So much* like something Tolkien's Teleri elves might have written :)

Good luck with the marking! Hope it's over soon :)

[cavendish]

>Sorry about disappearing in the middle of a conversation, but yes, we were moving house.

No problem, really :-)

>and would be delighted if you friended me

done. Thanks :-)

>though I don't know how much longer I will be involved in fandom as an active writer. I'm trying to break into original fic these days.

Why should that be an argument for *not* friending you? ;-)

What do you write, if I may ask? (Not meaning to ask about a work in progress, knowing that some authors are superstitious about that, but generally speaking)

>Patrick O'Brian's books are absolutely marvellous.

I'll take that as a recommendation for the summer break then. I am in a maritime mood at the moment anyhow, re-watching, as it is, "The Onedin Line" (BBC 1972-1980) Do you happen to know it?

>*So much* like something Tolkien's Teleri elves might have written :)

I have never thought of the poem in this light, bu yes, it is quite true. (*must ponder about this a little*)

>Good luck with the marking! Hope it's over soon :)

It will be in some 25 years time ;-). But for now, it will be over in a fortnight ;-). But up till then ... ;-)

Good luck with you housemoving. Hope you'll find everything in the box in which it is supposed to be ;-)

Frank

[ex_galadhir]

Why should that be an argument for *not* friending you? ;-)

*G* Well, it must surely ensure that instead of posting stories which appeal to a number of people, I stop posting any kind of interesting content at all and confine myself to talking about my cats or children - making the blog much less interesting than it was.

What do I write? It's a good question :) I suppose I like other worlds, whether that is the past or the future. I have an 18th Century haunted house/murder mystery, an Age of Sail Romance, and a Space Opera in various stages of planning and first draft at the moment - and I'm getting to the stage where I have to choose one of them and buckle down to actually finishing it.

I also have a different, completed AoS romance in the finals of a competition being run by Linden Bay Romance - which will be published if it wins, and a darkish Fantasy novel (also completed) which I'm self-publishing through LuLu :)

Heh, the Onedin Line takes me back. We never watched it, but I remember my father always changed the channel when it was on, when I was growing up. Is it good then?

Thank you! I still haven't found the toaster, but otherwise things seem to be slowly going back to normal. I hope your fortnight of exams passes quickly!

Marnie :-)

[cavendish]

Hi there :-)

*squee* a kosh icon. *waves* from a fellow b5 fan :-)

now it was me droppong out of a conversation, but ther is really a lot of work to do for me at the moment.

>I have an 18th Century haunted house/murder mystery, an Age of Sail Romance, and a Space Opera in various stages of planning and first draft at the moment - and I'm getting to the stage where I have to choose one of them and buckle down to actually finishing it.

sound interesting. But buckling down and finishing things really is the hard part of it ;-)

>Heh, the Onedin Line takes me back. We never watched it, but I remember my father always changed the channel when it was on, when I was growing up. Is it good then?

Hmm, it is hard to say if the series is really good. I watched it as a child, so there is a lot nostalgia involved in my re-wathing it. Some parts are really nicely done, and some othere: saop opera at its worst, really. All Creatures Great and Small , which was only about, I think, 4 years later, is much better as far as storytelling is concered. But then again, with All Creatures they had the Herriot books to rely on .. .
To cut a long story short: I enjoy watching it immensely.

Has the toaster turned up by now?

Frank

oh, and ps.:

>talking about my cats

I like cats ;-)

[ex_galadhir]

Heh, for some reason, now that my interest in PotC is waning I'm remembering how much I loved B5, and how much better it was than PotC. (Well, maybe not than the first film.) It had some of the same problems though - a tendancy to get bloated and pretentious at the end, and to make most of its protagonists 'darker' in the belief that that would make them more interesting. It reminded me that I stop enjoying stories when the moral makeup of their universe's change. (Which is not to say that I have to have heroes and villains - I enjoy Torchwood, where all the protagonists are somewhat dodgy. I just don't like the rules to change half way through.)

My main problem is that I can't choose which of the books to work on next. I know I *can* finish, once I've started, as I've finished three novels so far in my writing life, but getting properly started is my problem :)

I will try and check out the Onedin line as soon as I find out where the library is, if only for the ships :) And yes, I found the toaster, in the bottom of the last box, along with the plates :)

Alas, but my cats were metaphorical! I'm a dog person really, but we don't have any pets at present, other than two baby stick insects.

[cavendish]

Do these comments start to get wider again some time soon?

>how much I loved B5,

The only TV series I watched 3 times in its entirety. :-) (having been being introduced to the show by bimo, spending very enjoyable evenings together watching it on VHS tapes that came form the states, were copied about (judging from the picture quality) 3 mio times. We used to joke to be "wrapped in 5 kilometers of spinning video tape"

But I am getting sentimental. Furthermore, I don't have that much time at the moment (meaning none at all). This will change next Friday, by then everything that is on my mind right now will be resolved one way or the other ;-).

So if my reply is shorter than it should be (I would dearly have reflected in greater depth on both "Onedin Line" and Metaphorical Cats" but all this will have to wait, I am afraid, until next week ;-).

As for the books (and as far as good advices go): Which speaks to you the loudest at present? ;-)

Frank