Cruising the Intertubes and spanking
After waking up today, I went cruising a bit on the internets to various random things. First I went to xkcd to see the new comics I hadn't seen. Then for some reason I decided to google my name since I know of at least 2 'famous' people with my name (there's one guy who runs this thing called "Playing for Change" which uses music to bring people together, and another guy who is the producer for the Narnia movies).
So there was this guy (obviously same name as me) who wrote a book about his life of drugs, crime, prison all at a very young age and how he pulled himself out of it. I looked at the book a little bit on amazon and at the bottom of that page was a link to a forum thread on amazon about a discussion on spanking. I decided "you know, I've never really looked at these kind of discussions on spanking before". The thread was actually quite civil...at least on the first page which was all I read. But in the original post, there was a link to a page that had a bunch of "facts" about spanking. (For your reading enjoyment, www.nospank.net/pt2008.htm )
I don't think I laughed that hard about a page of 'facts' in a long time. I should say, growing up my parents did spank me...but they didn't do it too hard, they only used their hands, and only when I knew that I did something wrong that I knew I shouldn't have done. So yes, I'm using the "and I turned out ok" argument. And this website addresses just that.
An excerpt from the site:
(begin quote)
Let's test the I-turned-out-okay argument by examining a few real-life examples from my own childhood. See if they apply to you.
1. There were ashtrays in every room of our house. My parents smoked, as did most adult visitors to our home. The aroma of cigarette, cigar and pipe smoke was always present. Nobody minded. In fact, not one day passed in my early life when I was not exposed to tobacco smoke. I was even exposed in the womb because my mother smoked when she was pregnant with me. And I turned out okay.
2. The first family car I remember was a 1937 Chevrolet sedan. It had no seat belts. When we traveled, I was merely plunked down on the back seat with the expectation that gravity would keep me there. It did. And I turned out okay.
3. All the places in which I lived as a child were painted with lead-based paint. And I turned out okay.
4. I used a bicycle throughout my childhood and teen years, but never wore any kind of protective headgear. And I turned out okay. "
(end quote)
1. My parent's didn't smoke and smoking was not allowed in the house. Period. 2. The first family car I remember was an 80s Station wagon which was replaced with an '86 GMC Safari...both of which had proper seat belts. 3. As far as I know the house I grew up in didn't have lead based paint, but I will concede that it is a possibility. (more on this below anyways). 4. I had a helmet every time I rode my bike.
So, no...none of those apply to me. Even if #3 or any other situations do apply, most of these are about 'potential' problems and not direct causes themselves. I think we can all agree that being in a car with no seat belts or living in a house with lead based paint is not a good idea. However, it is also 'possible' that there will be absolutely no problems with both of these situations. What they are claiming about spanking is that it 'will' cause problems no matter what.
Throughout the article, they put spanking and physical abuse in the same category. To me they are two different things. Not to say that spanking "won't" cause problems...just that it is a different category (to me) than physical abuse.
From the article:
(begin quote)
Some parents, eager to justify their behavior, will argue:"You have a duty to grab a child who is about to do something dangerous - to touch the hot stove or run into a busy street - and deliver a good smack so that your warnings about life's dangers will be remembered." Were that argument valid, spankings would become increasingly infrequent as children learned their lessons.
(end quote)
This is where I side with the website a bit. Spanking a child who is about to do something they shouldn't because they DON'T KNOW ANY BETTER is wrong. There is a big big difference between spanking someone to teach them something new, and spanking someone so they learn to not do something they already know they shouldn't have done. The former I will agree is wrong.
Oh, and I LOVE their Q&A section...so many problems with that section that I'm not going to go into it here.
And you know what probably shifted my thinking the most? Was a quote they put from one of the presidents of my church.
"I have never accepted the principle of 'spare the rod and spoil the child.'... I am persuaded that violent fathers produce violent sons... Children don't need beating. They need love and encouragement. They need fathers to whom they can look with respect rather than fear. Above all, they need example."
Gordon B. Hinckley, President, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, October 1994 General Conference.
Not to say that I agree entirely with that quote, but that reading that quote brings to mind a lot of the NLP training I've had. "Energy flows where attention goes". "The Secret" and all that. Although those are more about achieving your goals than they are about teaching someone. In teaching someone, there may be times where you do have to teach them what they are doing wrong so that they know specifically what to change...then you teach them what it should be so that they have a direction to move towards.
In the end I'm honestly not sure where exactly I stand on all of the issues around spanking. I do believe that using spanking to 'get their attention' or to 'teach them to not touch the stove' is wrong. But to use spanking in the same manner it was used on me growing up? I'm not so sure anymore. Sure I turned out ok, and yet at the same time, I do believe there are better ways of doing it.
Thankfully I don't really have to deal with this issue personally for at least many more years from now. :D And so with that, please only leave respectful comments on this one (whether you agree or disagree.)
So there was this guy (obviously same name as me) who wrote a book about his life of drugs, crime, prison all at a very young age and how he pulled himself out of it. I looked at the book a little bit on amazon and at the bottom of that page was a link to a forum thread on amazon about a discussion on spanking. I decided "you know, I've never really looked at these kind of discussions on spanking before". The thread was actually quite civil...at least on the first page which was all I read. But in the original post, there was a link to a page that had a bunch of "facts" about spanking. (For your reading enjoyment, www.nospank.net/pt2008.htm )
I don't think I laughed that hard about a page of 'facts' in a long time. I should say, growing up my parents did spank me...but they didn't do it too hard, they only used their hands, and only when I knew that I did something wrong that I knew I shouldn't have done. So yes, I'm using the "and I turned out ok" argument. And this website addresses just that.
An excerpt from the site:
(begin quote)
Let's test the I-turned-out-okay argument by examining a few real-life examples from my own childhood. See if they apply to you.
1. There were ashtrays in every room of our house. My parents smoked, as did most adult visitors to our home. The aroma of cigarette, cigar and pipe smoke was always present. Nobody minded. In fact, not one day passed in my early life when I was not exposed to tobacco smoke. I was even exposed in the womb because my mother smoked when she was pregnant with me. And I turned out okay.
2. The first family car I remember was a 1937 Chevrolet sedan. It had no seat belts. When we traveled, I was merely plunked down on the back seat with the expectation that gravity would keep me there. It did. And I turned out okay.
3. All the places in which I lived as a child were painted with lead-based paint. And I turned out okay.
4. I used a bicycle throughout my childhood and teen years, but never wore any kind of protective headgear. And I turned out okay. "
(end quote)
1. My parent's didn't smoke and smoking was not allowed in the house. Period. 2. The first family car I remember was an 80s Station wagon which was replaced with an '86 GMC Safari...both of which had proper seat belts. 3. As far as I know the house I grew up in didn't have lead based paint, but I will concede that it is a possibility. (more on this below anyways). 4. I had a helmet every time I rode my bike.
So, no...none of those apply to me. Even if #3 or any other situations do apply, most of these are about 'potential' problems and not direct causes themselves. I think we can all agree that being in a car with no seat belts or living in a house with lead based paint is not a good idea. However, it is also 'possible' that there will be absolutely no problems with both of these situations. What they are claiming about spanking is that it 'will' cause problems no matter what.
Throughout the article, they put spanking and physical abuse in the same category. To me they are two different things. Not to say that spanking "won't" cause problems...just that it is a different category (to me) than physical abuse.
From the article:
(begin quote)
Some parents, eager to justify their behavior, will argue:"You have a duty to grab a child who is about to do something dangerous - to touch the hot stove or run into a busy street - and deliver a good smack so that your warnings about life's dangers will be remembered." Were that argument valid, spankings would become increasingly infrequent as children learned their lessons.
(end quote)
This is where I side with the website a bit. Spanking a child who is about to do something they shouldn't because they DON'T KNOW ANY BETTER is wrong. There is a big big difference between spanking someone to teach them something new, and spanking someone so they learn to not do something they already know they shouldn't have done. The former I will agree is wrong.
Oh, and I LOVE their Q&A section...so many problems with that section that I'm not going to go into it here.
And you know what probably shifted my thinking the most? Was a quote they put from one of the presidents of my church.
"I have never accepted the principle of 'spare the rod and spoil the child.'... I am persuaded that violent fathers produce violent sons... Children don't need beating. They need love and encouragement. They need fathers to whom they can look with respect rather than fear. Above all, they need example."
Gordon B. Hinckley, President, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, October 1994 General Conference.
Not to say that I agree entirely with that quote, but that reading that quote brings to mind a lot of the NLP training I've had. "Energy flows where attention goes". "The Secret" and all that. Although those are more about achieving your goals than they are about teaching someone. In teaching someone, there may be times where you do have to teach them what they are doing wrong so that they know specifically what to change...then you teach them what it should be so that they have a direction to move towards.
In the end I'm honestly not sure where exactly I stand on all of the issues around spanking. I do believe that using spanking to 'get their attention' or to 'teach them to not touch the stove' is wrong. But to use spanking in the same manner it was used on me growing up? I'm not so sure anymore. Sure I turned out ok, and yet at the same time, I do believe there are better ways of doing it.
Thankfully I don't really have to deal with this issue personally for at least many more years from now. :D And so with that, please only leave respectful comments on this one (whether you agree or disagree.)