So, watched it now. I love the discussions this episode invokes.
The Prisoner? I guess, but every WWII and most spy movies have some of this type of interrogation in them. I did get the vibe at the beginning when the interrogator tells him he is not a person but a file, a number. And, as jerel pointed out, the mental mind f*ck at the end.
Do you think that Clark's people actually believed John had been suborned by aliens? Would that make their actions more...I hesitate to say acceptable, but maybe understandable? I was watching John's injuries heal and trying to estimate the passage of time. Why didn't he do that? Though I suppose if they'd caught him they could have re-injured him.
I also spent way too much time worrying about bodily functions, but that's a biology thing.
The interrogator does lie, about the time anyway. My husband was busy making excuses for the 'good morning time for lunch' comments. But the suppertime thing? A step too far. You could stretch it I suppose. But really, LIE.
This is a popular area for fic, especially of the h/c variety. He pictures Delenn here, and you're supposed to think it gets him through. But I've often wondered what he was thinking really. If I sign, I'll see her again? If I don't sign, I'll never see her again? If I sign, she'd never understand? If I don't sign, what will she do? There's my reason for living, but I have to let her go and die again cause there's no escape and no surrender? So many possibilities.
I also spent way too much time worrying about bodily functions, but that's a biology thing.
I've considered this as well. I think I resigned myself to the fact that I did not want to think about it; that the cell had cement walls and floor and a drain for a reason and being a POW means sometimes you get to sit in your own stuff for awhile, until they come in and hose the room down. Plus they cleared out his system pretty early on with the poison (they hadn't fed him for three days prior to that, and then he basically emptied himself of anything that might be left) so biologically wouldn't he have reached a point where he no longer had anything to expel? (I may be wrong. Biology was not my strong suit.)
This is a popular area for fic, especially of the h/c variety.
True fax. This episode has spawned more plot bunnies than I care to think about.
As for his vision of Delenn... I think it was just that thinking of her gave him strength. I really think he was just about to break, and then there she was, and it was kind of a - no, John, don't give up - a very simple moment that gave him strength when maybe he was just about out.
Funny that you should point out the morning-lunch-supper thing. Agreed, the "supper" comment was uncalled for - though I think it was the first sign that John was getting under his skin, that the interrogator was losing his cool. The rest of it... I can't decide if I'd call it a lie. I always put it in the "the truth is fluid and subjective" bucket - which is not really a lie. In that room, it didn't matter what time it was, it could be lunchtime if the two of them decided that it was. It was morning if they thought it was morning because there was no evidence to prove otherwise.
But I see your point, too. I think it all goes under the general "mind-fuckery" heading.
I can work with the hosing down (get out of there, mind!) but the clothes...he wears the same clothes. They wouldn't undress and dress him, would they?
I was relieved to notice this time they had an IV drip for hydration. What? I worry!
I know :( I try so hard not to think about that. Less about the pants and shirt but more on the socks and underwear subject. Poor John :(
On that note, though, I've read a couple of Bruce interviews about the filming of this ep, and he kinda thought it was pretty sweet to be able to eat lunch and not have to worry about getting food on his wardrobe. He could just do whatever! Eat like a slob! Which... makes me LOL, and I'm not sure why.
He talked about this ep a lot because it came out as one of his faves. The other thing he did was stay in that chair all day - they'd take breaks between takes and he'd just stay in that uncomfortable chair while they did lighting and set-related stuff all around him, because he wanted to really be in John's head and get a feel for what he was going through. Kinda method-y and it had to be damn uncomfortable, but it resulted in one of my favorite blooper reel moments (his Billy Bob Thorton "Slingblade" impression.)
I've considered this as well. I think I resigned myself to the fact that I did not want to think about it; that the cell had cement walls and floor and a drain for a reason and being a POW means sometimes you get to sit in your own stuff for awhile, until they come in and hose the room down. Plus they cleared out his system pretty early on with the poison (they hadn't fed him for three days prior to that, and then he basically emptied himself of anything that might be left) so biologically wouldn't he have reached a point where he no longer had anything to expel? (I may be wrong. Biology was not my strong suit.)
I kinda figure that he was absolutely made to just do whatever he ended up having to do without any allowance made. I doubt he even got hosed. That we didn't really...see anything is just due to what you can and cannot show on network TV. Humans have a really strong natural instinct to not soil their own surroundings, so essentially forcing someone to do so is one way to break someone really easily. It's a dehumanizing tactic.
The only thing that made me think he got any sort of cleanup was that after the interrogator told him the sandwich was poisoned, he said he'd be back "after they've had a chance to clean up the place." So they did something - if not to Sheridan, then to the room itself. Which. The part where I said I resigned myself to the fact that I don't want to think about it? Now I'm thinking about it.
There is a reason there are some things they aren't allowed to show on TV. Blarg indeed.
The Prisoner? I guess, but every WWII and most spy movies have some of this type of interrogation in them. I did get the vibe at the beginning when the interrogator tells him he is not a person but a file, a number. And, as jerel pointed out, the mental mind f*ck at the end.
Do you think that Clark's people actually believed John had been suborned by aliens? Would that make their actions more...I hesitate to say acceptable, but maybe understandable? I was watching John's injuries heal and trying to estimate the passage of time. Why didn't he do that? Though I suppose if they'd caught him they could have re-injured him.
I also spent way too much time worrying about bodily functions, but that's a biology thing.
The interrogator does lie, about the time anyway. My husband was busy making excuses for the 'good morning time for lunch' comments. But the suppertime thing? A step too far. You could stretch it I suppose. But really, LIE.
This is a popular area for fic, especially of the h/c variety. He pictures Delenn here, and you're supposed to think it gets him through. But I've often wondered what he was thinking really. If I sign, I'll see her again? If I don't sign, I'll never see her again? If I sign, she'd never understand? If I don't sign, what will she do? There's my reason for living, but I have to let her go and die again cause there's no escape and no surrender? So many possibilities.
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I've considered this as well. I think I resigned myself to the fact that I did not want to think about it; that the cell had cement walls and floor and a drain for a reason and being a POW means sometimes you get to sit in your own stuff for awhile, until they come in and hose the room down. Plus they cleared out his system pretty early on with the poison (they hadn't fed him for three days prior to that, and then he basically emptied himself of anything that might be left) so biologically wouldn't he have reached a point where he no longer had anything to expel? (I may be wrong. Biology was not my strong suit.)
This is a popular area for fic, especially of the h/c variety.
True fax. This episode has spawned more plot bunnies than I care to think about.
As for his vision of Delenn... I think it was just that thinking of her gave him strength. I really think he was just about to break, and then there she was, and it was kind of a - no, John, don't give up - a very simple moment that gave him strength when maybe he was just about out.
Funny that you should point out the morning-lunch-supper thing. Agreed, the "supper" comment was uncalled for - though I think it was the first sign that John was getting under his skin, that the interrogator was losing his cool. The rest of it... I can't decide if I'd call it a lie. I always put it in the "the truth is fluid and subjective" bucket - which is not really a lie. In that room, it didn't matter what time it was, it could be lunchtime if the two of them decided that it was. It was morning if they thought it was morning because there was no evidence to prove otherwise.
But I see your point, too. I think it all goes under the general "mind-fuckery" heading.
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I was relieved to notice this time they had an IV drip for hydration. What? I worry!
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I know :( I try so hard not to think about that. Less about the pants and shirt but more on the socks and underwear subject. Poor John :(
On that note, though, I've read a couple of Bruce interviews about the filming of this ep, and he kinda thought it was pretty sweet to be able to eat lunch and not have to worry about getting food on his wardrobe. He could just do whatever! Eat like a slob! Which... makes me LOL, and I'm not sure why.
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I kinda figure that he was absolutely made to just do whatever he ended up having to do without any allowance made. I doubt he even got hosed. That we didn't really...see anything is just due to what you can and cannot show on network TV. Humans have a really strong natural instinct to not soil their own surroundings, so essentially forcing someone to do so is one way to break someone really easily. It's a dehumanizing tactic.
It's totally gross to think about, though. Blarg.
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There is a reason there are some things they aren't allowed to show on TV. Blarg indeed.
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