fight war, not wars

[benweasel]

So, a lot of Bush supporters are really against abortion because it's murder. Wouldn't you think they would be against war also? People certainly die in wars. I mean, yeah abortion is murder but so is shooting a human being with a gun or blowing up a home with a bomb. This just makes no sense to me. I guess it's ok to murder as long as the

Comments

[avianchaos]

A lot of people don't think war is murder. It's an easy viewpoint to take - one killing may be good, one may be bad. Some (read: most) people think it was a good thing that we stopped Hitler and ended WWII. That involved a lot of killing. Some (read: most) people think it was a bad thing that Hitler was doing to the Jews. That also involved a lot of killing. And yet one act is good, and one act is bad. Both involved intentional killing.

(I know some people would like to argue that WWII could have been stopped without violence; consult any educated historian and they will tell you that it would have been impossible.)

Also, I don't think being American has anything to do with abortion. People who are against abortion don't think it's okay to have it in other countries. It's only that people in American only have control over what happens in America, not in other countries.

Shouldn't someone's personal beliefs govern who they are and what they do? In fact, aren't all of our actions as humans controlled by our personal beliefs? Why should the president be any different? I think saying "I don't want a Christian president" is just as biased as saying "I want a Christian president." You should want a GOOD president. Christianity doesn't exclude logic. I think maybe you see Christianity as an illogical choice, and so you think that all Christians are without logic. I could be wrong, though.

Also, about campaign money. I agree, too much is spent on something stupid like campaigning. However, if you think about it, the person who wins the election is in control of billions of dollars that get put to use all over the world. That million dollars invested in campaigning probably has a much larger and more long-term effect by winning the presidency than it might by simply feeding a hundred thousand people for one day.

[benweasel]

I knew you would comment.

I think you misunderstood what I said. I'm not much of a writer. I did not mean to say I didn't want a president who was a christian. I just don't want one who uses his religious beliefs to make decisions that effect our life. And about me thinking Christianity as a illogical choice etc etc? Yes, you are wrong about that. I don't think that at all.

I know you'll argue with me about this(or anything) until death and I'm really not in the mood. You know I don't agree with you on a lot of things and you're really not going to convince me to. I've heard the argument.

[avianchaos]

Ok, maybe that isn't what you meant. However, you said: "I'm all for people believing in whatever it is they want to believe in but I don't want a Christian president." I still don't understand this statement, if you say that it doesn't mean what it seems to mean.

So, you also said: "Logic>God". What does that mean, then? What are your thoughts/beliefs on Christianity and logic?

Just because we don't agree doesn't mean we can't hold civilized discussion. I think it's more about understanding the other person's position than it's really about convincing them you're right.

Do you have anything to say about the other comments I made? The ones about murder, abortion, and campaign money, I mean. I'm just curious to see what you think.

[benweasel]

I have a lot to say but I have shit to do(important tests this week). So I'll TRY to keep it brief.

I think comparing WWII to the war now is kind of silly considering they're obviously VERY different wars.

When I say Logic>God. I mean that the president can believe whatever the fuck he wants to believe but I can only hope he doesn't use his religion to help him make decisions that effect our country. I know you're going to say "well why shouldnt he? blah blah blah" but try to understand my point of view. People make decisions everyday that effect their lives. The choices are sometimes inspired by religious beliefs. The President makes decisions that effect MY life. I would like it if he kept his religion at HOME and and I would hope it doesn't effect decisions he makes that effect ME. I don't need to give examples because it's a broad topic. But I know you understand what I'm talking about.

I don't think abortion is right, neither do you, neither does your buddy Bush. But it's not MY decision to tell someone what they can and cannot do. If a woman wants to have an abortion, it's a very serious and very personal thing and it's not my place to tell her she can't.

About campaign money. Bush and Kerry are both loaded. They could afford to feed some(a few thousand) people and still have tons of money left over. Give money where money is needed. It doesn't seem like they do. Yes, promoting will help them get elected and as president they can make positive change. But if I saw either using some money to feed some people who need it, I know it'd would win me over. I think both Bush and Kerry are jerks. I also think both parties are fucked.

I support BADNARIK because I think he would be a better president than the current. i'm for human rights. I don't agree with a great deal of things Bush has done but I know you've heard all that shit before.

[avianchaos]

Well, nowhere did I compare anything to Iraq. I didn't even say the word "Iraq." We're only talking about murder. Is all killing murder? It's a simple question, and I provided an example to show that no, all killing isn't murder, because sometimes it's necessary and is a good thing for the world. What do you think - is all killing murder?

Your argument makes sense, but I can't agree with it. Let's say that there are two types of people who run for president - those who believe in a God of somekind (be it Allah, God, whatever), and those who don't. Now, the people who are religious believe their lives should be governed by God and His influence. The athiests disagree and think God should have no part. Now, no matter whether the president is religious or not, he goes against the wishes of one of the groups. He either offends the religious or the athiests. It simply can't be avoided.

That said, I think it's fine to have a preference that agrees with your personal beliefs, but you have to realize that saying "I don't want a Christian president who uses religion in his decisions" is like saying "I don't want a Democratic president who uses policies I don't like." It just doesn't fly.

That's fine, about abortion. So do you think that people who are pro-life only care about American babies? Or is anti-abortion simply a hypocritical American movement?

Hehe. So by giving money to starving people, Kerry would win your vote? Wouldn't that just be considered more campaign money designed to win the votes of people like you who don't like either candidate or are undecided? Or does it not matter, since he helped people anyway?

[benweasel]

UUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

You're picking out small things of what I said and looking way to into them. I disagree with you on almost everything.

The Libertarian Party makes the most sense to me. The others don't.

[benweasel]

Also, you should know that everytime you comment on my journal I want to just hit the CAPS key and type "SHUT THE FUCK UP" but I don't want to be mean. I know your views. You're a typical Convervative Christian in kingwood. That doesn't mean I don't like you because I DO have friends who share similiar beliefs, but stop trying to get a debate going. I'm not interested because I'm sick to death of debating with people.

[avianchaos]

What, and you're not a typical teenage American liberal? Let's not play around with labels. Answer some questions, instead.

I'm not trying to get a debate going. I haven't questioned anyone but you - and that was only because you posted about it. If you post about it, you have to expect a response. Otherwise, what would be the point of writing about it? So you can have your friends agree with you? Right. I'm just interested in what you think, that's all.

I haven't picked out small things you said and looked into them. I returned the conversation to its original topic - I brought it back to the comments you made in your original post. So you're libertarian; that's great. Feel free to answer the questions I asked at any time.

[ahh_les_homards]

For someone who loves to express his opinion all the time it sure seems like you get upset when someone is more knowledgeable than you are, John. And campaign money is money given for campaigns, not either candidates personal spending money for the poor. That's what food drives are for. Stop getting so irritated and then pretending like you're not because you can't back anything up as well as Luke.

[benweasel]

sorry mario, I better watch it or one of your friends might throw me down the stairs.

[ahh_les_homards]

Everyone keeps bringing that up like I care. That issue is between Lauren and Tommy. She got him kicked out, he needs to talk to her and leave me the hell alone.

[benweasel]

I'm actually not a typical teenage american liberal. Libertarian doesnt equal liberal.

[rockrollchicken]

Id just like to say that in order to pay for kerry's campagin, i believe he took out a mortgage on his house. So it isnt just everyine elses money.

[japtastic]

his wife's money from her dead husband helped too