Temper, Temper
One of my favorite bloggers, Bluz Dude, posted about an interesting subject a while back. I’d originally intended to answer right away, but life has been a bit goofy, so it took me a while to get back to him. The post was titled Argument Clinic, and he went on a bit of a rant about women’s style of arguing (yeah, his female commenters loved that ;) ) and asked some questions of his female audience about their argument styles, and here’s what I responded (the lines in italics are his questions/statements - go to the original post link above to see the whole thing):
{This ran a little long, so I'm putting the rest behind a cut - if you'd like to continue reading, please .}
I’ll answer your points first, and then I’ll regale you with my own experiences in temper management and the art of arguing (I know you’re looking forward to it).
Being a black-belt arguer myself, I think I'm particularly qualified to answer this question. :)
Here are my thoughts on your original points:
1. Get out of jail free card. It comes out like: “Because I was the one that did the job, it doesn’t matter that I did part of it wrong… Example: “I just did all the shopping. So what if I didn’t get the one thing you put on the list?” I don’t see why it’s an argument. She’s shopping anyway, I put it on the shopping list, I mentioned it, and then she either forgets it or gets the wrong variation. I don’t care about the zillion other things that I won’t eat or use, I needed the one thing. But I’m the shit for mentioning it because she did the shopping?
My first response to this is that she doesn't feel appreciated for the stuff she does do right, and feels like all you're noticing is the bad. I've found this to be a veeeeeery common theme between the sexes. Guys (in my experience, including, very much so, the hubs) aren't into complimenting what's expected anyway. You may be great tippers at restaurants on principle, but a lot of men tend to be terrible pat-on-the-backers. If a woman has been doing great with some to-do item for a long period of time with no acknowledgment of a job well done, a complaint about a single failing can pop the top off a resentment she's probably been trying really hard to hold back otherwise. It's a balance thing - if there are no good comments for acceptable behavior, the lone bad comment tilts the scales because it’s by itself. {Warning: Psychobabble talk time} My main Love Language is Words of Affirmation. This means I am particularly needy in the compliment department. I've gotten to the point that I warn the hubs before he comes home when I've been working on something that I need him to notice. This is probably on the extreme side, but it works for us because his compliments are always honest; if he's not impressed or finds fault with it, he doesn't sprinkle daisies on my head (though he tries to be gentle).
2. Litany of side issues. See #5.
3. Twisting my words to suit her needs. This is when she takes what she thinks I’m saying, changes it into some unholy perversion of what I actually said, then attacks that. See #4.
4. Claiming personal attack when there is none. Haven’t we all been taught not to attack the person, just the argument? I try to do that but it doesn’t really matter.
Me: That’s a ridiculous statement.
Her: Don’t call me ridiculous!
In my opinion, this is an honest difference in communication methods between the sexes. Women tend to assign emotion to everything in our lives; men tend to not. I know there are tons of exceptions to this, and to avoid further generalizations, I will use myself as the example here. *I* do not have the ability to separate what I’m feeling from what I’m thinking. I happen to be a VERY analytical and logical person, but things I say tend to reflect how I feel AND think about something. If someone tells me that what I’ve said is ridiculous, they are, in my mind, telling me that what I FEEL is ridiculous, and since no one likes to be told that their feelings are invalid, I, naturally, take offense to that. They’re all connected in my mind.
5. List of Grievances. Pretty much every argument I’ve ever had with a female devolves into a list of perceived slights, errors, grievances and everything I’ve ever done wrong since the moment we met. Do ladies really keep all those transgressions ready to use at a moment’s notice? When I have a conversation, I pretty much consider it a transient event and when it’s done, it’s gone from my head and I move onto the next thing.
Tom and I have a problem with this one, too. A few things are typically going on here (at least, with us): A) Pattern in behavior (& fear of its continuing/happening again) - If Tom does something that seems to be a repeat of things he’s done in the past (& it’s behavior that I dislike), I will include the previous actions in the conversation. The problem with this is that he doesn’t always see them as related, and honestly, his motives for doing them may be completely different, which is probably why he hasn’t linked them. Motive/intent ends up being a big part of most of our disagreements. He insists that if he didn’t intend to hurt my feelings, naturally, my feelings shouldn’t be hurt. We’ve gone round and round on this one, but trust me that there is probably a link in her mind. B) “We’re all gathered here today…” or the “while I’ve got you in argument mode, there are some other things I really need to discuss with you…” maneuver. I’m not saying this one is fair, but I know I’ve done it in the past, so there you go. If it’s neither of these, and she’s just listing everything you’ve done wrong, I would say that’s an argument that’s at the name-calling phase and won’t be productive no matter what you do.
6. Constant interruptions.
My defense of this one, I believe, is valid. My hubby can recite what I say word-for-word, but it frustrates me to no end that he often cannot remember the last thing he said. So, what this translates to is the need to address each of his points as he says them. It’s not that I’m not allowing him to give his argument; it’s that I want to make sure I address all of it and want to make sure he understands parts that may relate to the whole.
7. Raging generalizations or over-simplifications
I try *really* hard not to do this one. I read somewhere how people just tune you out after a statement like that is started, so the rest of your argument is lost because they automatically assume it’s not valid. I get what you’re saying, but also as you said, nobody’s perfect. ;)
…it’s so hard to turn off the Smartass Button.
Dude, you’re shooting yourself in the foot on that one. Come on.
Is it as simple as men needing things to make sense but women are not so encumbered?
Please tell me that there are women that can have an argument in a rational manner, without throwing everything in the warehouse against the wall to see what sticks.
All but a very few women with whom I’ve worked make their points during a disagreement or discussion at work in a completely logical and rational manner.
Okay, you know that every one of those statements/questions is sexist beyond belief, right? Of course women need things to make sense, too, and of course there are lots of us who can have an argument in a rational manner (I’m choosing to ignore the wall comment).
I tend to seek out feisty, high-spirited types.
Um, hel-lo? What exactly did you think you got with that package?
…just drop it and let her win. And you know, I used to do that, a lot… and not just with women but with everyone. But the older I get, the less I’m content with letting things go.
Don’t blame you a bit on that. I think we just get to a point where we’re tired of dealing with BS and want to have a reasonable discussion.
Regarding my own experiences, I'll say that my method of arguing has *vastly* changed since being with Tom (almost 10 yrs now). I believe it’s because I don't want to "burn any bridges" with him. Maybe that’s a sign of desperation or dependence, but I’m not ashamed to admit that I’d really prefer he stay in my life for a long time and that I’d like him to be happy during that time. Pre-Tom, my arguing style included a lot of screaming and slamming of doors and (loud) cussing and making "him" (whoever "him" was at the time) stop the car so I could stomp off to who-knows-where. Yeah, you would've *loved* me then, I'm sure. ;) I didn't give a flying flute what those guys thought at the time because, to me, every argument was a "we're going to break up/divorce" argument - THAT wonderful lesson was passed down to me by my parents. *sigh*
Anyway, I have since learned to identify when I'm reaching my boiling point, and I now try to streamline my thought process when it's happening (I said “try”). I ask myself questions like: "Why am I angry?" "Is it really about what just happened?" "Has Tom upset me or is it something/one else & I'm just taking it out on him?" I also have discovered (and cherish) the ability to admit that I'm wrong DURING an argument (believe me, my family was shocked the first time they witnessed this). This one was particularly tough for me (& still is), and I could not have developed it without being in a place of complete trust with Tom. He has helped me learn how to not be on the defensive all the time.
Another important growing point for me was giving up on the myth that "If he loves me, he'll know what to say/do." It is HARD for a woman to give this up, especially for women who've never had a good male example in our lives. You see, if we haven't witnessed healthy relationships during our lives, we tend to end up with fairy tale expectations instead of realistic ones. Basically, what this means for me is that I have to swallow my princess fantasies and just TELL HIM WHAT TO SAY IF I NEED TO HEAR SOMETHING SPECIFIC. Now, I will say that it only works if he honestly does mean whatever-it-is (he just couldn’t word it to my satisfaction). And, really, if he doesn’t mean it, the process of my explaining why I need to hear it gets us on the right track to understanding each other anyway, so it’s a win either way. This one is also tough and super-anti-intuitive, and again, it involves trust. There is no flippin’ way I would’ve done that with my ex-husband or any of the boyfriends. It just doesn’t work unless you’re in a place in the relationship where you’re willing to be vulnerable AND patient AND the other person is, too.
Tom and I still have arguments, some quiet and dignified, some where I have to go cool it in the bedroom for a bit, some where I still get to the point of yelling and cussing, but we have gotten so much better at it that it feels like we make progress when we do argue. I’m Irish and come from a looong line of hot tempers, so my getting heated up isn’t going to change, but what I say (and do) when I do can (and has).
So, what's your arguing style? Does it work? Do you wish you could change it?
{This ran a little long, so I'm putting the rest behind a cut - if you'd like to continue reading, please .}
I’ll answer your points first, and then I’ll regale you with my own experiences in temper management and the art of arguing (I know you’re looking forward to it).
Being a black-belt arguer myself, I think I'm particularly qualified to answer this question. :)
Here are my thoughts on your original points:
1. Get out of jail free card. It comes out like: “Because I was the one that did the job, it doesn’t matter that I did part of it wrong… Example: “I just did all the shopping. So what if I didn’t get the one thing you put on the list?” I don’t see why it’s an argument. She’s shopping anyway, I put it on the shopping list, I mentioned it, and then she either forgets it or gets the wrong variation. I don’t care about the zillion other things that I won’t eat or use, I needed the one thing. But I’m the shit for mentioning it because she did the shopping?
My first response to this is that she doesn't feel appreciated for the stuff she does do right, and feels like all you're noticing is the bad. I've found this to be a veeeeeery common theme between the sexes. Guys (in my experience, including, very much so, the hubs) aren't into complimenting what's expected anyway. You may be great tippers at restaurants on principle, but a lot of men tend to be terrible pat-on-the-backers. If a woman has been doing great with some to-do item for a long period of time with no acknowledgment of a job well done, a complaint about a single failing can pop the top off a resentment she's probably been trying really hard to hold back otherwise. It's a balance thing - if there are no good comments for acceptable behavior, the lone bad comment tilts the scales because it’s by itself. {Warning: Psychobabble talk time} My main Love Language is Words of Affirmation. This means I am particularly needy in the compliment department. I've gotten to the point that I warn the hubs before he comes home when I've been working on something that I need him to notice. This is probably on the extreme side, but it works for us because his compliments are always honest; if he's not impressed or finds fault with it, he doesn't sprinkle daisies on my head (though he tries to be gentle).
2. Litany of side issues. See #5.
3. Twisting my words to suit her needs. This is when she takes what she thinks I’m saying, changes it into some unholy perversion of what I actually said, then attacks that. See #4.
4. Claiming personal attack when there is none. Haven’t we all been taught not to attack the person, just the argument? I try to do that but it doesn’t really matter.
Me: That’s a ridiculous statement.
Her: Don’t call me ridiculous!
In my opinion, this is an honest difference in communication methods between the sexes. Women tend to assign emotion to everything in our lives; men tend to not. I know there are tons of exceptions to this, and to avoid further generalizations, I will use myself as the example here. *I* do not have the ability to separate what I’m feeling from what I’m thinking. I happen to be a VERY analytical and logical person, but things I say tend to reflect how I feel AND think about something. If someone tells me that what I’ve said is ridiculous, they are, in my mind, telling me that what I FEEL is ridiculous, and since no one likes to be told that their feelings are invalid, I, naturally, take offense to that. They’re all connected in my mind.
5. List of Grievances. Pretty much every argument I’ve ever had with a female devolves into a list of perceived slights, errors, grievances and everything I’ve ever done wrong since the moment we met. Do ladies really keep all those transgressions ready to use at a moment’s notice? When I have a conversation, I pretty much consider it a transient event and when it’s done, it’s gone from my head and I move onto the next thing.
Tom and I have a problem with this one, too. A few things are typically going on here (at least, with us): A) Pattern in behavior (& fear of its continuing/happening again) - If Tom does something that seems to be a repeat of things he’s done in the past (& it’s behavior that I dislike), I will include the previous actions in the conversation. The problem with this is that he doesn’t always see them as related, and honestly, his motives for doing them may be completely different, which is probably why he hasn’t linked them. Motive/intent ends up being a big part of most of our disagreements. He insists that if he didn’t intend to hurt my feelings, naturally, my feelings shouldn’t be hurt. We’ve gone round and round on this one, but trust me that there is probably a link in her mind. B) “We’re all gathered here today…” or the “while I’ve got you in argument mode, there are some other things I really need to discuss with you…” maneuver. I’m not saying this one is fair, but I know I’ve done it in the past, so there you go. If it’s neither of these, and she’s just listing everything you’ve done wrong, I would say that’s an argument that’s at the name-calling phase and won’t be productive no matter what you do.
6. Constant interruptions.
My defense of this one, I believe, is valid. My hubby can recite what I say word-for-word, but it frustrates me to no end that he often cannot remember the last thing he said. So, what this translates to is the need to address each of his points as he says them. It’s not that I’m not allowing him to give his argument; it’s that I want to make sure I address all of it and want to make sure he understands parts that may relate to the whole.
7. Raging generalizations or over-simplifications
I try *really* hard not to do this one. I read somewhere how people just tune you out after a statement like that is started, so the rest of your argument is lost because they automatically assume it’s not valid. I get what you’re saying, but also as you said, nobody’s perfect. ;)
…it’s so hard to turn off the Smartass Button.
Dude, you’re shooting yourself in the foot on that one. Come on.
Is it as simple as men needing things to make sense but women are not so encumbered?
Please tell me that there are women that can have an argument in a rational manner, without throwing everything in the warehouse against the wall to see what sticks.
All but a very few women with whom I’ve worked make their points during a disagreement or discussion at work in a completely logical and rational manner.
Okay, you know that every one of those statements/questions is sexist beyond belief, right? Of course women need things to make sense, too, and of course there are lots of us who can have an argument in a rational manner (I’m choosing to ignore the wall comment).
I tend to seek out feisty, high-spirited types.
Um, hel-lo? What exactly did you think you got with that package?
…just drop it and let her win. And you know, I used to do that, a lot… and not just with women but with everyone. But the older I get, the less I’m content with letting things go.
Don’t blame you a bit on that. I think we just get to a point where we’re tired of dealing with BS and want to have a reasonable discussion.
Regarding my own experiences, I'll say that my method of arguing has *vastly* changed since being with Tom (almost 10 yrs now). I believe it’s because I don't want to "burn any bridges" with him. Maybe that’s a sign of desperation or dependence, but I’m not ashamed to admit that I’d really prefer he stay in my life for a long time and that I’d like him to be happy during that time. Pre-Tom, my arguing style included a lot of screaming and slamming of doors and (loud) cussing and making "him" (whoever "him" was at the time) stop the car so I could stomp off to who-knows-where. Yeah, you would've *loved* me then, I'm sure. ;) I didn't give a flying flute what those guys thought at the time because, to me, every argument was a "we're going to break up/divorce" argument - THAT wonderful lesson was passed down to me by my parents. *sigh*
Anyway, I have since learned to identify when I'm reaching my boiling point, and I now try to streamline my thought process when it's happening (I said “try”). I ask myself questions like: "Why am I angry?" "Is it really about what just happened?" "Has Tom upset me or is it something/one else & I'm just taking it out on him?" I also have discovered (and cherish) the ability to admit that I'm wrong DURING an argument (believe me, my family was shocked the first time they witnessed this). This one was particularly tough for me (& still is), and I could not have developed it without being in a place of complete trust with Tom. He has helped me learn how to not be on the defensive all the time.
Another important growing point for me was giving up on the myth that "If he loves me, he'll know what to say/do." It is HARD for a woman to give this up, especially for women who've never had a good male example in our lives. You see, if we haven't witnessed healthy relationships during our lives, we tend to end up with fairy tale expectations instead of realistic ones. Basically, what this means for me is that I have to swallow my princess fantasies and just TELL HIM WHAT TO SAY IF I NEED TO HEAR SOMETHING SPECIFIC. Now, I will say that it only works if he honestly does mean whatever-it-is (he just couldn’t word it to my satisfaction). And, really, if he doesn’t mean it, the process of my explaining why I need to hear it gets us on the right track to understanding each other anyway, so it’s a win either way. This one is also tough and super-anti-intuitive, and again, it involves trust. There is no flippin’ way I would’ve done that with my ex-husband or any of the boyfriends. It just doesn’t work unless you’re in a place in the relationship where you’re willing to be vulnerable AND patient AND the other person is, too.
Tom and I still have arguments, some quiet and dignified, some where I have to go cool it in the bedroom for a bit, some where I still get to the point of yelling and cussing, but we have gotten so much better at it that it feels like we make progress when we do argue. I’m Irish and come from a looong line of hot tempers, so my getting heated up isn’t going to change, but what I say (and do) when I do can (and has).
So, what's your arguing style? Does it work? Do you wish you could change it?