BSG Meta: Six vs Eight vs Identity
Well, I'm still in South Korea. Still plugging away. Very grateful it's the weekend and not really in the mood to bore everyone with talk of such things, so instead, I have written BSG meta for the first time in ages. Hurrah!
( Her model is weak / Your model is usually so hardcore. ORLY? )
( Her model is weak / Your model is usually so hardcore. ORLY? )
I once thought they had a potential to be something beyond human. Maybe even better than human.
Interesting! I don't think I'd ever say better simply because I don't think that the show supports that kind of absolutist narrative. It's why I dislike the idea that the Cylon must become like humans because that's just as absolute, and suggests we are superior for...no good reason that the show can supply.
Sidenote: One of the only key things in the show that irritates me is the constant harping on about how you have to be worthy of surviving and just surviving isn't enough. It irritates me because I absolutely and HUGELY think that survival isn't an excuse to turn yourself into a monster, and I think that's what they're really trying to get at, but in the show, the question is often used in uncharacteristically simplistic ways. It's like a get-out-of-complex-discussion-while-appearing-to-be-"deep"-free card. I think it irks me because it's so often used not as a way of asking, can we live with ourselves? but of asking did we deserve it? while the quesiton of worthiness is never really laid in front of the Cylon. At least not until Natalie. So yay for that. /LOOONG Sidenote!
But to get back to what you were saying, I'm not sure I'd say the Cylon should be better than humans but different, beyond, absolutely. And that doesn't preclude the wonderfully complex and interesting tales of hybridity we get from Hera, from the Final Five, even from Laura with her Magical Baby Blood. In fact those tales are more interesting if the Cylon are...alien.
A friend of mine mentioned that the first act of cylon-on-cylon violence was when Sharon killed Six (some Six) when Six kissed Helo on Caprica.
Good point. But yes, I think the fact it was sanctioned does make a difference. While they perhaps never used to be that violent, and it's certainly a commentary on the worlds we build, I also have a sneaking suspicion that it may have more to do with mass identity versus individual identity. Which takes us back to the way BSG prioritises the individual identity over the gestalt. It's not a tack I'm opposed to, since it's TV made for individuals, but it's a wonderful and potentially wasted opportunity to explore the gestalt as something other than alien and evil.
Actually if we're counting that way, then the first act of cylon-on-cylon violence was the nuclear attack on Caprica that killed Caprica!Six. She was the first casualty of "friendly fire".
Yes, and our dear Caprica. Where does she fit in the end?
I CANNOT WAIT TO FIND OUT.
Though, I also don't want to get my hopes up. I got excited when she came back in Downloaded and then we didn't see her again until season three. I got really excited about that and then D'anna ate up all her screetime (I mean, I love Cylon!Xena, I really, really do, but she majorly sidelined Caprica's screentime because they had to make use of the bigname guest star). So then D'anna left and Caprica was on Galactica and AGAIN I thought, wow, now they'll HAVE to give us a storyline, right? Nope. So then we get the season three finale and I'm like, OH OH she's sharing visions with the MAJOR PLAYERS so in season four, I won't be disappointed, will I? And...she's in...three episodes of ten, I think? And only one of them has her for more than a single scene?
...that was also the point at which I decided to make a vid about how sidelined she was and how no one pays any attention to how much she loves them.
But I'm babbling now, and the only point I was trying to make was, she'll probably yet again do something really important but only be in a handful of scenes.
Reply
Hmm, okay. Maybe not better. But beyond human. More. There is so much potential. Sentient beings who can feel and reason. Heck, I'm even interested in the Centurions. Did that one get what Gaius was saying about God? These beings, who knows what they might be able to do!
You are right. "The gestalt as something other than alien and evil." Yes, they could be not human and not evil. It is possible. I grew up with Star Trek. In that world, all life was valued, human or otherwise. I know the BSG-verse isn't there yet, but now I'm wondering why humans created the Cylons, anyway? Why did the Cylons want to evolve? It couldn't just be just to destroy, to turn on their 'parents'. The way they want to reproduce, to find Earth. They must want more. And the faction with Natalie and Leoben does not seem to want to destroy. Maybe together they could serve a good purpose. Who knows?
The survival debate! I know! There is the idea, let's survive this first and then pick up our morals, our dignity later. Nope. I agree with you, survival is no excuse to become monsters. I don't think either side asks whether they can live with themselves. Laura and Bill used to long ago. Laura used to carry her sins on slips of paper in her pocket and Bill used to say things about, 'living with it.' But that was then. I think the Cylons didn't ask that question because they were humanity's 'children'. As children betrayed, they never had to feel guilty. Being basically immortal, life stretched on as did guilt, in a way it doesn't when you can reach the end of line all too soon.
Caprica was the first casulty! But whoa if Gina was on Pegaus at that time, how many other models died in the attacks on the twelve worlds?
And that doesn't preclude the wonderfully complex and interesting tales of hybridity we get from Hera, from the Final Five, even from Laura with her Magical Baby Blood. In fact those tales are more interesting if the Cylon are...alien.
I want to know those tales! And the thing of it all, is I feel we are running out of time to tell them. :-(
So I take it you like the Sixes, huh? :-) See, I feel we got a lot of the Sixes this season. Not Caprica, per se. But we got Natalie and PTSD!Six and even a little Head!Six. And Natalie! Natalie as leader. She was awesome, I do not understand why she had to die.
But I'm okay about the lack of Sixes if it makes you make vids! Yay!
Six is always important. We have to keep an eye out on her too. Actually, all of the Sixes. :-)
Reply
See, I think the reason why I'm so irked about the constant "we have to be worthy of surviving" schtick we get from Bill (or at least we used to in S3) is that I think the show does a really good job of this most of the time.
Because it makes me question my preconceptions. So, for instance, I absolutely agree that survival is no excuse to become a monster because then you haven't survived. Cain is proof of this. But that said, I also don't think that you have to prove your worthiness to survive. Survival is an inalienable right. But one sometimes you have to fight for.
So, for instance, when they were considering unleashing the Cylon plague before Helo killed the infected prisoners on the sly, I really didn't have much sympathy for Adama's position, and I basically was siding with Roslin (although I'd also note that the show didn't give us any reason to believe that it would actually do more than wipe out a couple dozen basestars at most). Because "we have to be worthy of surviving," is an absolutist argument in a situation where absolutes don't exist. Neither Roslin nor Adama wants to become Cain, but Roslin had an extremely potent point about being okay with history judging her because that would mean this all survived into history.
All I can really say for sure is, every time Adama argues against something for some nebulous reason like, "we have to be worthy of surviving," I want to smack him upside the head and say, "OKAY, WE'LL ALL JUST SIT HERE AND WAIT TO DIE THEN, SHALL WE?" because it puts everything into a binary context of Cain vs Pacifism, and even as a hippy pacifist, I know stuff ain't always that simple?
Blargh, see, this is what this show does to my brain. I'm sorry, I'm rambling incoherently now, and I'll stop.
But I did have something else thing to add! Firstly Sixes! Yes, we did get awesome Sixness with Natalie, and seeing Six in a different context was amazing. But I'm still sad that every time we might end up with more Caprica she's sidelined. First by Head!Six then by D'Anna, now by Natalie. It's not that I'd want to get rid of any of those characters or cut their screentime: they're all awesome. I just find it an entertaining meta-commentary on how forgotten Caprica is in-show. ;)
And Natalie! Natalie as leader. She was awesome, I do not understand why she had to die.
I do. I didn't understand for a while and I was very sad, but then I got it. And if anything, it made me sadder, even though I decided it was a legitimate creative deicision.
Natalie chose for the Cylon and she chose death. For every single one of them. Forever. That's massive. To quote Kendra, and to get at a strong recurring theme in the show - "You make your choices and you live with them, and in the end, you are those choices."
Natalie chose death for her entire race. You can't make that kind of a decision and not go first.
She claimed that for their lives to have any meaning, they had to die. So she did.
Reply
Not incoherent, I agree with you! Middle ground, sometimes this show lacks middle ground. There is something between Cain and Pacifism. Maybe Lee will find it. I don't know. I hope they find it.
Natalie chose death for her entire race. You can't make that kind of a decision and not go first.
Wow. You mean since she worked to destroy the Hub? She also choice trust too, trust that the humans wouldn't take advantage of the Cylons' newly mortal status. A martyr for her cause, she knew the possibility of death.
Oh, this reminds me of the moment in "Handlebars" where it says, "I can lead a nation with a microphone." Natalie in front of the quorum was a moment better in the vid, than when it happened on the show. The whole video made the Revelations episode (and other later eps in season 4.0) much better for me. Natalie leading nations. That's her. It makes me wonder, what sacrifices will the humans have to make? Laura Roslin is dying, dying for what? What she will choose for her race?
Mortality does give life meaning. But trust? I want to believe that the two sides can build that. I want to but deep down I don't. If the show is going that route, it's going to have to be extra-convincing and written VERY WELL for me to buy it. Which would be awesome. We'll see. :-)
Reply
I did gather a few thoughts here on Caprica and Head!Six. A bit rambly, though.
Reply
Leave a comment