Re: the "Vicar of Christ" (& other humanz)bavApril 5 2005, 17:32:45 UTC
Yes, ultimately the pope (any & all of the popes) was/were human with all the good and the bad that being human entails... and the same could be said of Aldof Hitler, the Dalia Lama, Prez. Bush, Sinead O'Connor, and my mother.
Agreed. There were some pretty decent popes (and I include John Paul II in these), and there were some pretty horrid popes.
I can visualize each of your examples as "Pope", and most of them fall to the horrid end of the spectrum, except the Dali Lama (who isn't that far off in the sense of being a pretty decent religious leader) and you mom who I have no basis to judge.
The pope (any of them) was a man who rose to the top of... uh... an interesting & powerful org. and thus, for that alone, must be held with respect... but again, the same could be said of Bush, Sinead O'Connor (although to a much lesser extent I would not argue), the Dalia Lama (I guess it could be argued that he did not "rise" to the top but was put there, but he is still a highly respected leader), and Hitler (who not only rose to the top of the Nazi party but helped build it)...
Ok. Not sure where this is going, but I don't think that being head of an interesting and powerful organization automatically means respect. Respect is something earned, recognition is something that I'll give for someone who is the head of a such organization.
My respect for the John Paul II isn't because he was the Pope...I'm not Catholic, I'm not even religious so I don't care about it that much. What I saw in him a man that was deeply compassionate and tried to make the world a better place for everyone. He genuinely **CARED**. That trumps everything else for earning respect in my eyes.
- but one thing that is can not be said (with general agreement) about any of the others... they never claimed to be "the Vicar of Christ"...
Rightly so. They were never head of the Catholic Church.
So now I am curious... what does it mean (to you) to be "the Vicar of Christ"?
Well, its a term that the Church has used to describe the position of being Pope, especially in respects to being the "shepard of the flock of Christ" (i.e. Catholicism). I merely used it because I don't really like using the same words over and over again.
What does it mean to me specifically? Nothing more than that. I'm a Jew by technicallity, an atheist by nature, and a sun worshipper by personal choice. I do not accept Christ as my saviour, go to any sort of services regularly, and have a hard time with the concept of God in general.
But I try to have the utmost respect for other people's religious views as long as they are not trying to constantly actively convert me to them. And as such, I like to get a feeling for the terminology, pagentry, and ritual that goes along with it and incorporate it into discussions about said belief system.
- a friend ov a friend, and a confirmed catholic Xian as well as a taoist.
Yup, noticed that we're connected through a lawyer in Chicago >grin<
I've been enjoying this, thanks for responding and feel free to continue.
I also have noticed some small amount of connection to the Temple of Psychick Youth in your spelling. Still associated?
Agreed. There were some pretty decent popes (and I include John Paul II in these), and there were some pretty horrid popes.
I can visualize each of your examples as "Pope", and most of them fall to the horrid end of the spectrum, except the Dali Lama (who isn't that far off in the sense of being a pretty decent religious leader) and you mom who I have no basis to judge.
The pope (any of them) was a man who rose to the top of... uh... an interesting & powerful org. and thus, for that alone, must be held with respect... but again, the same could be said of Bush, Sinead O'Connor (although to a much lesser extent I would not argue), the Dalia Lama (I guess it could be argued that he did not "rise" to the top but was put there, but he is still a highly respected leader), and Hitler (who not only rose to the top of the Nazi party but helped build it)...
Ok. Not sure where this is going, but I don't think that being head of an interesting and powerful organization automatically means respect. Respect is something earned, recognition is something that I'll give for someone who is the head of a such organization.
My respect for the John Paul II isn't because he was the Pope...I'm not Catholic, I'm not even religious so I don't care about it that much. What I saw in him a man that was deeply compassionate and tried to make the world a better place for everyone. He genuinely **CARED**. That trumps everything else for earning respect in my eyes.
- but one thing that is can not be said (with general agreement) about any of the others... they never claimed to be "the Vicar of Christ"...
Rightly so. They were never head of the Catholic Church.
So now I am curious... what does it mean (to you) to be "the Vicar of Christ"?
Well, its a term that the Church has used to describe the position of being Pope, especially in respects to being the "shepard of the flock of Christ" (i.e. Catholicism). I merely used it because I don't really like using the same words over and over again.
What does it mean to me specifically? Nothing more than that. I'm a Jew by technicallity, an atheist by nature, and a sun worshipper by personal choice. I do not accept Christ as my saviour, go to any sort of services regularly, and have a hard time with the concept of God in general.
But I try to have the utmost respect for other people's religious views as long as they are not trying to constantly actively convert me to them. And as such, I like to get a feeling for the terminology, pagentry, and ritual that goes along with it and incorporate it into discussions about said belief system.
- a friend ov a friend, and a confirmed catholic Xian as well as a taoist.
Yup, noticed that we're connected through a lawyer in Chicago >grin<
I've been enjoying this, thanks for responding and feel free to continue.
I also have noticed some small amount of connection to the Temple of Psychick Youth in your spelling. Still associated?
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http://www.livejournal.com/users/sighris/55738.html?thread=103866#t103866
ToPY:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/sighris/61352.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/sighris/79212.html
"be ye wise as serpents" a bible quote of Jesus:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/sighris/57879.html
A Lawyer in Chicago and other friends:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/sighris/76544.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/bolteroo/173371.html?thread=180539#t180539
Sighris:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/sighris/50751.html
What I want: power, serenity, & wisdom (in that order;)
http://www.livejournal.com/users/sighris/63487.html
Feel free to read (& post) on any of the above.
Glad to meet you.
Sighris
- Nothing is True
- Everything is Permitted
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