John McCain Speaking Well--Against Torture Apologists
Every now and then we see the John McCain who did some things I respected and could have tolerated in higher office.
Today (May 12, 2011) on the floor of the Senate he made this statement as a response to the disturbingly large number of voices that have been raised to claim torture permitted the US to find and kill Osama bin Laden. He directly addresses a former member of the Attorney General's office whose statement has been widely cited by the cretins who think torture is pretty nifty and should be used on potential information sources.
“With so much misinformation being fed into such an essential public debate as this one, I asked the Director of Central Intelligence, Leon Panetta, for the facts. And I received the following information:
“The trail to bin Laden did not begin with a disclosure from Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who was waterboarded 183 times. We did not first learn from Khalid Sheikh Mohammed the real name of bin Laden’s courier, or his alias, Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti - the man who ultimately enabled us to find bin Laden. The first mention of the name Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti, as well as a description of him as an important member of Al-Qaeda, came from a detainee held in another country. The United States did not conduct this detainee’s interrogation, nor did we render him to that country for the purpose of interrogation. We did not learn Abu Ahmed’s real name or alias as a result of waterboarding or any ‘enhanced interrogation technique’ used on a detainee in U.S. custody. None of the three detainees who were waterboarded provided Abu Ahmed’s real name, his whereabouts, or an accurate description of his role in Al-Qaeda.
“In fact, not only did the use of ‘enhanced interrogation techniques’ on Khalid Sheikh Mohammed not provide us with key leads on bin Laden’s courier, Abu Ahmed; it actually produced false and misleading information. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed specifically told his interrogators that Abu Ahmed had moved to Peshawar, got married, and ceased his role as an Al-Qaeda facilitator - which was not true, as we now know. All we learned about Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti through the use of waterboarding and other ‘enhanced interrogation techniques’ against Khalid Sheik Mohammed was the confirmation of the already known fact that the courier existed and used an alias.
“I have sought further information from the staff of the Senate Intelligence Committee, and they confirm for me that, in fact, the best intelligence gained from a CIA detainee - information describing Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti’s real role in Al-Qaeda and his true relationship to Osama bin Laden - was obtained through standard, non-coercive means, not through any ‘enhanced interrogation technique.’
“In short, it was not torture or cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment of detainees that got us the major leads that ultimately enabled our intelligence community to find Osama bin Laden. I hope former Attorney General Mukasey will correct his misstatement. It’s important that he do so because we are again engaged in this important debate, with much at stake for America’s security and reputation. Each side should make its own case, but do so without making up its own facts.
This is a message that needs to be repeated as widely as possible. McCain's name associated with it may offer some credibility with the torture apologists. Sadly, a sizable number will be as willing to accept even his statement as they are to accept that Barack Obama was born in the US, or that there may not have been reason to invade Iraq to stop Al Qaeda--and as a result the conservative talk radio that I (unwillingly) hear will continue to be filled with the voices of people who know nothing on the topic.
(FWIW, I've done research on the topic, and know people who have been trained both in intelligence gathering and in resistance to interrogation procedures. The first rule associated with the use of torture is: EVERYONE WILL TALK IF TORTURED LONG ENOUGH. The bad news that goes along with that is that the information gotten is almost certain to consist of a) lies made up to get you to stop hurting the subject for however long it takes to check out what they've told you, b) lies made up to give you what the subject thinks you want to know even though they know nothing at all about it, c) deliberate misinformation to made the questioner act as the subject wants, d) repeated pleas that the subject knows nothing and please make the pain stop, and e) accurate, useful information presented clearly so that action can be taken. Of those, the last is the very least likely to happen. Of options a through c, all will waste resources to determine that the information gotten from the interrogation is useless.
Successful interrogation involves non-coercive conversation, often in conjunction with food, a walk in a garden, a cigarette, or some other method of making rapport possible. A good interrogator can get useful information from a subject in as little as twenty minutes, and often without the subject realizing they have given up useful data.
One of the most successful interrogators on the historical record was a German officer in a Luftwaffe POW camp during World War II. He never so much as raised his voice to any prisoner, but he was so good at what he did that, as one first-hand memoir describes, an airman who evaded capture for three days after being shot down over occupied France arrived at the camp, where the officer greeted him with the news that the wife of his unit CO had just given birth, and what the gender of the baby was. Someone else from the same wing had been shot down that afternoon and had already met the interrogator, and the Luftwaffe officer was able to share the good news--and establish rapport.)
Today (May 12, 2011) on the floor of the Senate he made this statement as a response to the disturbingly large number of voices that have been raised to claim torture permitted the US to find and kill Osama bin Laden. He directly addresses a former member of the Attorney General's office whose statement has been widely cited by the cretins who think torture is pretty nifty and should be used on potential information sources.
“With so much misinformation being fed into such an essential public debate as this one, I asked the Director of Central Intelligence, Leon Panetta, for the facts. And I received the following information:
“The trail to bin Laden did not begin with a disclosure from Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who was waterboarded 183 times. We did not first learn from Khalid Sheikh Mohammed the real name of bin Laden’s courier, or his alias, Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti - the man who ultimately enabled us to find bin Laden. The first mention of the name Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti, as well as a description of him as an important member of Al-Qaeda, came from a detainee held in another country. The United States did not conduct this detainee’s interrogation, nor did we render him to that country for the purpose of interrogation. We did not learn Abu Ahmed’s real name or alias as a result of waterboarding or any ‘enhanced interrogation technique’ used on a detainee in U.S. custody. None of the three detainees who were waterboarded provided Abu Ahmed’s real name, his whereabouts, or an accurate description of his role in Al-Qaeda.
“In fact, not only did the use of ‘enhanced interrogation techniques’ on Khalid Sheikh Mohammed not provide us with key leads on bin Laden’s courier, Abu Ahmed; it actually produced false and misleading information. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed specifically told his interrogators that Abu Ahmed had moved to Peshawar, got married, and ceased his role as an Al-Qaeda facilitator - which was not true, as we now know. All we learned about Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti through the use of waterboarding and other ‘enhanced interrogation techniques’ against Khalid Sheik Mohammed was the confirmation of the already known fact that the courier existed and used an alias.
“I have sought further information from the staff of the Senate Intelligence Committee, and they confirm for me that, in fact, the best intelligence gained from a CIA detainee - information describing Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti’s real role in Al-Qaeda and his true relationship to Osama bin Laden - was obtained through standard, non-coercive means, not through any ‘enhanced interrogation technique.’
“In short, it was not torture or cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment of detainees that got us the major leads that ultimately enabled our intelligence community to find Osama bin Laden. I hope former Attorney General Mukasey will correct his misstatement. It’s important that he do so because we are again engaged in this important debate, with much at stake for America’s security and reputation. Each side should make its own case, but do so without making up its own facts.
This is a message that needs to be repeated as widely as possible. McCain's name associated with it may offer some credibility with the torture apologists. Sadly, a sizable number will be as willing to accept even his statement as they are to accept that Barack Obama was born in the US, or that there may not have been reason to invade Iraq to stop Al Qaeda--and as a result the conservative talk radio that I (unwillingly) hear will continue to be filled with the voices of people who know nothing on the topic.
(FWIW, I've done research on the topic, and know people who have been trained both in intelligence gathering and in resistance to interrogation procedures. The first rule associated with the use of torture is: EVERYONE WILL TALK IF TORTURED LONG ENOUGH. The bad news that goes along with that is that the information gotten is almost certain to consist of a) lies made up to get you to stop hurting the subject for however long it takes to check out what they've told you, b) lies made up to give you what the subject thinks you want to know even though they know nothing at all about it, c) deliberate misinformation to made the questioner act as the subject wants, d) repeated pleas that the subject knows nothing and please make the pain stop, and e) accurate, useful information presented clearly so that action can be taken. Of those, the last is the very least likely to happen. Of options a through c, all will waste resources to determine that the information gotten from the interrogation is useless.
Successful interrogation involves non-coercive conversation, often in conjunction with food, a walk in a garden, a cigarette, or some other method of making rapport possible. A good interrogator can get useful information from a subject in as little as twenty minutes, and often without the subject realizing they have given up useful data.
One of the most successful interrogators on the historical record was a German officer in a Luftwaffe POW camp during World War II. He never so much as raised his voice to any prisoner, but he was so good at what he did that, as one first-hand memoir describes, an airman who evaded capture for three days after being shot down over occupied France arrived at the camp, where the officer greeted him with the news that the wife of his unit CO had just given birth, and what the gender of the baby was. Someone else from the same wing had been shot down that afternoon and had already met the interrogator, and the Luftwaffe officer was able to share the good news--and establish rapport.)