I really like and appreciate the theory you posit here. And fully agree that you present a credible theory for how Ghost!Bobby could be a very real possibility.
I do think he is dead and put so much energy into getting those numbers to Sam and Dean pre-death because he expected that to be his final communication with them -- which is a large part of what makes me think the idea of him actually lingering as a ghost is a longshot possibility. However, you appear to allude to the possibility of Bobby hanging around as a spirit for a certain period of time -- for Sam and Dean... and then it's an open end for a possible change in choice for Bobby. Now that too is an interesting and viable possibility.
Playing Devil's Advocate for one tiny second, I argue against my own fondness for Bobby when I look at two moments of SPN's history concerning references to spirits and their afterlife:
Tessa: Look at her, Cole. Do you see how unhappy she is? Cole: That's why I want to stay with her. Tessa: As long as she can feel you, she'll be in pain, because she can't let go. Because you won't let go of her. Cole: Why won't anybody tell me what's on the other side? Tessa: Maybe nobody wants to ruin the surprise. Cole: That's not an answer. Dean: She won't answer you, Cole. Reapers never do. But trust me. Staying here is a whole lot worse than anything over there. Cole: Why? Dean: Because one day, your family will be gone, and there'll be nothing left here for you. (4.15)
This reference seems to argue in two possible directions for a spirit to make a decision: once their family is gone there will be nothing left for them to remain sane for.
But there is the other possibility Tessa mentions: that the very act of trying to hang around to comfort a grieving family member was actually causing more pain than just moving on.
I end up with such a mixed and divided reaction to that possibility -- because we've seen how hard it is for Dean in particular to let go of a lost family member, and the idea that Bobby hanging around, intending it to be a comfort and help -- actually exacerbating the pain... that is a rather disturbing thought to me. Haven't the Winchesters experienced enough pain and loss? Bobby lingering as a ghost presents quite the conundrum: would it comfort or hurt the boys if he were to not move on but rather anchor himself somehow to them? Best of intentions, road to... well. We've been there before, haven't we?
There is one other random thought that comes to mind. I admit do not have any idea how it could fit into the scheme of things or possibily play into any choice Bobby makes about moving on, but our last Bobby-centric episode was 6.04. And that episode featured the Kenny Rogers' song "The Gambler", which featured the chorus words repeating:
You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em Know when to walk away and know when to run.
And in this same episode we had Bobby's memorable rant to Crowley about being a demon:
Bobby: You demons - you think you're something special, but you're just spirits. Twisted, perverted, evil spirits, but end of the day, you're nothing but ghosts with an ego.
Would Bobby choosing to stay risk the possibility of turning himself into a ghost with an ego -- because he has so much more knowledge about what being a spirit is/means, and all the possibilities. Yes, Bobby wouldn't be one of those souls tortured and twisted into a perversion/worst possible manifestation of what a soul can be converted into, but I find it an interesting thought nonetheless. Can it play into knowing when to hold on, and when to let go... and gambling that that is the right time?
Oh dear, I just cut loose all over your journal. Thanks for putting up with my own speculation and for feeding different avenues of thought. I really am not too confident of any outcome at this point. Hopefully January will begin to answer some of our questions. :)
Please don't apologize for having commented at length; I enjoy a conversation, at least on the (now admittedly rare!) occasions when I can converse back!
About your point: "... the idea that Bobby hanging around, intending it to be a comfort and help -- actually exacerbating the pain... that is a rather disturbing thought to me. Haven't the Winchesters experienced enough pain and loss? Bobby lingering as a ghost presents quite the conundrum: would it comfort or hurt the boys if he were to not move on but rather anchor himself somehow to them? Best of intentions, road to... well. We've been there before, haven't we?"
I'm definitely betting that if Bobby remained around as a spirit, it wouldn't be all cookies and puppydogs; the writers would manage to turn the knife somehow! But I think the situation is different than the one between Cole and his mother, precisely because Bobby and the brothers understand life and death very differently than any other mortals. They're unique in having gotten a glimpse behind the curtain. Cole's mom, like any normal human, believed death to be final; she hoped her son would be in a better place with no suffering, and being able to sense him still on Earth, feeling unhappy, made her unhappy in her turn, unable to accept his death, leave it behind, and move on.
I dare to think the situation between Bobby and the brothers would be different because their expectations and understanding are different. They know what Heaven is and I don't think any of them would be content there, not as long as any of the rest of them remained alive and engaged in the fight; they'd rather be able to support each other, I think. Were they confined to Heaven, I think they'd be joining with Ash in searching for a means to subvert the system rather than remaining happily in their versions of Winchesterland or Singerland! I think, if they had reason to believe that a friendly spirit was *intentionally* remaining in the vicinity and was happy to be there, still able to affect events, they wouldn't be sad to know he was hanging around and wouldn't be focused on getting past his death to deal with whatever else life had to offer. They would have to get to the point of accepting that he wanted to be there, however.
Would that be healthy? Nope. Not particularly. But it wouldn't be precisely unhealthy, either, because it would simply be recognizing their peculiar reality, one in which death wasn't necessarily either an end or a permanent condition, and one in which Heaven and an afterlife weren't necessarily preferable to being an empowered and self-aware ghost. *grin*
To me, understanding the whole cosmology is the key to succeeding as a ghost: not getting impatient with the time and effort it would take to learn to communicate effectively with the material world; knowing that you could still choose to pass on (as Molly and Father Gregory did) in your own time when you'd either achieved your intended purpose or seen those you loved pass on in their turn and had no more reason to remain Earthbound; and understanding and being comfortable with what you were foregoing by remaining tied to Earth rather than shifting to Heaven (or Hell).
All this blather aside, I'm not predisposed toward any outcome. I'll accept whatever road the story chooses to take and will wait to see what's around the next bend and the one after that. However much I may sometimes choose to speculate, it's not my story to tell, and I'm content with that ... and dying to see where the brothers' story will go!
Really looking forward to January and beyond ...
Thanks for coming by and commenting!! It's been fun!!
I do think he is dead and put so much energy into getting those numbers to Sam and Dean pre-death because he expected that to be his final communication with them -- which is a large part of what makes me think the idea of him actually lingering as a ghost is a longshot possibility. However, you appear to allude to the possibility of Bobby hanging around as a spirit for a certain period of time -- for Sam and Dean... and then it's an open end for a possible change in choice for Bobby. Now that too is an interesting and viable possibility.
Playing Devil's Advocate for one tiny second, I argue against my own fondness for Bobby when I look at two moments of SPN's history concerning references to spirits and their afterlife:
Tessa: Look at her, Cole. Do you see how unhappy she is?
Cole: That's why I want to stay with her.
Tessa: As long as she can feel you, she'll be in pain, because she can't let go. Because you won't let go of her.
Cole: Why won't anybody tell me what's on the other side?
Tessa: Maybe nobody wants to ruin the surprise.
Cole: That's not an answer.
Dean: She won't answer you, Cole. Reapers never do. But trust me. Staying here is a whole lot worse than anything over there.
Cole: Why?
Dean: Because one day, your family will be gone, and there'll be nothing left here for you. (4.15)
This reference seems to argue in two possible directions for a spirit to make a decision: once their family is gone there will be nothing left for them to remain sane for.
But there is the other possibility Tessa mentions: that the very act of trying to hang around to comfort a grieving family member was actually causing more pain than just moving on.
I end up with such a mixed and divided reaction to that possibility -- because we've seen how hard it is for Dean in particular to let go of a lost family member, and the idea that Bobby hanging around, intending it to be a comfort and help -- actually exacerbating the pain... that is a rather disturbing thought to me. Haven't the Winchesters experienced enough pain and loss? Bobby lingering as a ghost presents quite the conundrum: would it comfort or hurt the boys if he were to not move on but rather anchor himself somehow to them? Best of intentions, road to... well. We've been there before, haven't we?
There is one other random thought that comes to mind. I admit do not have any idea how it could fit into the scheme of things or possibily play into any choice Bobby makes about moving on, but our last Bobby-centric episode was 6.04. And that episode featured the Kenny Rogers' song "The Gambler", which featured the chorus words repeating:
You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
And in this same episode we had Bobby's memorable rant to Crowley about being a demon:
Bobby: You demons - you think you're something special, but you're just spirits. Twisted, perverted, evil spirits, but end of the day, you're nothing but ghosts with an ego.
Would Bobby choosing to stay risk the possibility of turning himself into a ghost with an ego -- because he has so much more knowledge about what being a spirit is/means, and all the possibilities. Yes, Bobby wouldn't be one of those souls tortured and twisted into a perversion/worst possible manifestation of what a soul can be converted into, but I find it an interesting thought nonetheless. Can it play into knowing when to hold on, and when to let go... and gambling that that is the right time?
Oh dear, I just cut loose all over your journal. Thanks for putting up with my own speculation and for feeding different avenues of thought. I really am not too confident of any outcome at this point. Hopefully January will begin to answer some of our questions. :)
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About your point: "... the idea that Bobby hanging around, intending it to be a comfort and help -- actually exacerbating the pain... that is a rather disturbing thought to me. Haven't the Winchesters experienced enough pain and loss? Bobby lingering as a ghost presents quite the conundrum: would it comfort or hurt the boys if he were to not move on but rather anchor himself somehow to them? Best of intentions, road to... well. We've been there before, haven't we?"
I'm definitely betting that if Bobby remained around as a spirit, it wouldn't be all cookies and puppydogs; the writers would manage to turn the knife somehow! But I think the situation is different than the one between Cole and his mother, precisely because Bobby and the brothers understand life and death very differently than any other mortals. They're unique in having gotten a glimpse behind the curtain. Cole's mom, like any normal human, believed death to be final; she hoped her son would be in a better place with no suffering, and being able to sense him still on Earth, feeling unhappy, made her unhappy in her turn, unable to accept his death, leave it behind, and move on.
I dare to think the situation between Bobby and the brothers would be different because their expectations and understanding are different. They know what Heaven is and I don't think any of them would be content there, not as long as any of the rest of them remained alive and engaged in the fight; they'd rather be able to support each other, I think. Were they confined to Heaven, I think they'd be joining with Ash in searching for a means to subvert the system rather than remaining happily in their versions of Winchesterland or Singerland! I think, if they had reason to believe that a friendly spirit was *intentionally* remaining in the vicinity and was happy to be there, still able to affect events, they wouldn't be sad to know he was hanging around and wouldn't be focused on getting past his death to deal with whatever else life had to offer. They would have to get to the point of accepting that he wanted to be there, however.
Would that be healthy? Nope. Not particularly. But it wouldn't be precisely unhealthy, either, because it would simply be recognizing their peculiar reality, one in which death wasn't necessarily either an end or a permanent condition, and one in which Heaven and an afterlife weren't necessarily preferable to being an empowered and self-aware ghost. *grin*
To me, understanding the whole cosmology is the key to succeeding as a ghost: not getting impatient with the time and effort it would take to learn to communicate effectively with the material world; knowing that you could still choose to pass on (as Molly and Father Gregory did) in your own time when you'd either achieved your intended purpose or seen those you loved pass on in their turn and had no more reason to remain Earthbound; and understanding and being comfortable with what you were foregoing by remaining tied to Earth rather than shifting to Heaven (or Hell).
All this blather aside, I'm not predisposed toward any outcome. I'll accept whatever road the story chooses to take and will wait to see what's around the next bend and the one after that. However much I may sometimes choose to speculate, it's not my story to tell, and I'm content with that ... and dying to see where the brothers' story will go!
Really looking forward to January and beyond ...
Thanks for coming by and commenting!! It's been fun!!
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